Formula 1 VTB Russian Grand Prix 2019Formula 1 

  • Thread starter Jimlaad43
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Dennisch
In this case, Leclerc should have been on Vettel's ass if he wanted the swap to happen so early on. But he wasn't and it would have been stupid for Vettel to slow down that much. Save the emotions for after the race. Want to win? Race for it. Whining on the radio makes you look like a baby. Vettel had his periods, Max had them, Lewis has had his moments. And they all got ridiculed for it. Now it is Leclerc's turn to learn to keep his mouth shut and let his actions speak for him.

Also.

Let them race.
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I agree that it’s a phase all drivers have gone through, and Charles being young, he’s still learning. That said, people can critique him without resorting to Internet tough guy lingo like “petulant child” and “whining brat”. If someone needs to resort to calling an F1 driver a “whiny brat” because of some radio messages in the heat of the moment, then I’d suggest that it is the fans who are acting like petulant children.

I guarantee you that if the same events had played out, and Charles had said nothing, the same people would be on the internet calling him a Bottas, saying that he’s had his wings clipped and is letting Seb take control of the team, he’s resigned to his role as a number two, blah blah blah.


I also agree that had Ferrari just let them race, this would be a non-issue. Their whole pre-race plan is why Charles has reason to speak up - if there was no plan, they could have just raced, which is better for us instead of all the radio banter (which was kind of the only exciting point of an otherwise pretty tame race).

daan
Did you see Vettel pulling away from Leclerc? Leclerc only has a point if he was right behind Vettel trying to get past. He was nowhere near.

If you are complaining that the team won't let you past your faster team mate in front of you then you are a whining brat.
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Because in F1, the faster car is always able to stay on the gearbox of a slower car. Turbulent air doesn’t really come into play in F1.....
 
twitcher
I guarantee you that if the same events had played out, and Charles had said nothing, the same people would be on the internet calling him a Bottas, saying that he’s had his wings clipped and is letting Seb take control of the team, he’s resigned to his role as a number two, blah blah blah.
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As I said, show the emotions after the race. Just like Max did with Ocon. That is what F1 needs besides drama on track, drama off track. That is great stuff. Whining on the radio how you have been pushed off track, or how someone was a meany is something no one wants to hear. No one likes a media trained drone.

Be fair, who doesn't want to see Leclerc and Vettel going at each other because of ignored team orders?
 
Jimlaad43
Physical violence is not the answer. This isn't NASCAR.
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Ah yes, riding the horse again, I see.

Nascar solves it how it should be. If 2 drivers have a problem with each other, they let them solve it. And it gets solved, either on track or off.
 
Dennisch
As I said, show the emotions after the race. Just like Max did with Ocon. That is what F1 needs besides drama on track, drama off track. That is great stuff. Whining on the radio how you have been pushed off track, or how someone was a meany is something no one wants to hear. No one likes a media trained drone.

Be fair, who doesn't want to see Leclerc and Vettel going at each other because of ignored team orders?
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So, if they’re supposed to save it for after the race, and grievances aren’t what the audience wants to hear.....they should just stop airing team radio, period. If people don’t want to hear the driver’s emotions in the heat of the moment, what’s the point in listening to team radio? To here Nico’s engineer say “Come on Nico, you can do this,” or hear Ricci go “grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr”?

People need to remember that team radio in F1 is the equivalent of a basketball or hockey player carrying a hot mic on them for a full game. Can you imagine what we would have been privy to if Michael Jordan wore a hot mic for his entire career?? Do you think we would have never heard him complain about a ref’s call, or complain about a foul, or complain about a coach’s decision. If rumours are true, Jordan had a wicked tongue on him and was as good at trash talking as he was at ballin’. Imagine what the average softy would make of their favourite ball player talkin’ trash about other players’s mothers and sisters, girlfriends and wives, or even worse?

I’d rather not see Ferrari issue team orders. If they insist, then yes, I want to see Charles and Seb disobeying them, slugging it out, and letting their emotions show. I have no issue with any of that. Just let the drama unfold without resorting to petty name calling, especially when it’s done in a way that these guys will never see or read the comments. If you want to call Leclerc a petulant whiny crybaby, go on his twitter and call him that so at least there’s a fraction of a chance he’ll see it and respond to the petulant crying.
 
Guenther Steiner is such a petulant, whiny child. He and his team should just take the “sausage penalty” on the chin, and keep their opinions to themselves :lol: :lol: :lol:

 
twitcher
Guenther Steiner is such a petulant, whiny child. He and his team should just take the “sausage penalty” on the chin, and keep their opinions to themselves :lol: :lol: :lol:
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I can kind-of see the point, they spend millions to go racing and are then penalised differently from other drivers in recent races. The penalties need to be consistent - although that's something we've been saying all season.
 
TenEightyOne
I can kind-of see the point, they spend millions to go racing and are then penalised differently from other drivers in recent races. The penalties need to be consistent - although that's something we've been saying all season.
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I was being sarcastic, in light of people giving Leclerc a hard time for showing emotion on the radio.

I don’t want to hear Leclerc or Steiner show negative emotions, or complain on the radio...I’d rather hear them happy. But if we are going to get access to the team radios, I’d rather the people on the radios fully and freely express themselves....otherwise, what’s the point of listening if they just keep everything bottled up?

although that's something we've been saying all season.
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Season? How about decade?
 
daan
Of course they 🤬 didn't. He was already behind by that point and if LeClerc's car had developed a problem they'd need him. I honestly don't get some folk.
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Hey **** you and your disrespectful tone! I have seen a lot of people on line asking the very same question. And what is really the difference between that and leaving him out on completely wrecked tires for as long as they did. Its meant to show him that we are in charge. You are nothing without the team.
 
TenEightyOne
I'm struggling to follow your thinking here... if you don't want a popularity contest then a) Don't have a DotD competition and b) Stay away from F1 forums :lol:
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Because that's all that either are about.

I'm struggling to get your logic on this.
 
Mediocre race. Good win for Hamilton, where they showcased one of the main reasons why Mercedes win so much: they're almost always "there" and they're terribly consistent. I'd say between Hamilton, Bottas and the team in general they tend to make the fewest mistakes overall. The payoff comes with races like this. I don't understand the VSC hate. We've seen it benefit numerous drivers and it's no different from any other racing series I've ever watched. Pitting just before, or under yellow is always a benefit. Every team should be prepared for it happening.

Unexpected for Seb, for sure. The top cars have been stupidly reliable the past few years. With his pace he likely would have won.

Actually enjoying the drama at Ferrari (if not the radio messages). They're stupid to make plans with these two drivers, simply put. I'm actually looking forward to seeing them clash on track, or for either of them to blatantly ignore more team orders, etc. We need a little spice in F1, and that's what Ferrari has always been pretty good about. Something tells me their passionate Italian fans would prefer it to. Gives us a wider difference between the relatively cold/calculating Mercedes and Ferrari's madness. It's proper entertainment.

I was hoping to hear Leclerc's pit boss simply tell him to shut up and go chase down Vettel, etc.

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TheElbows
.I don't understand the VSC hate.
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People complain or applaud things like this depending on who benefits. VSC allows Hamilton to win a race - "urgh worst thing evaaar"

VSC causes Verstappen to jump Hamilton "OMG Max already the GOAT, I love you VSC".


That said I would support a closed pit lane in Virtual Safety Cars only as it is supposed to keep the gaps the same. Regular Safety Cars stay out long enough that you can cycle through pit stops, although the change I'd like to see is drivers having to go on the pit limiter through the minisector the accident that caused the Safety Car to bring their speed right down, avoiding driving like Giovinazzi in Singapore.
 
Jimlaad43
People complain or applaud things like this depending on who benefits. VSC allows Hamilton to win a race - "urgh worst thing evaaar"

VSC causes Verstappen to jump Hamilton "OMG Max already the GOAT, I love you VSC".
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It's the same thing about everything.

Ferrari gives team orders, no matter which direction or reason: people screaming bloody murder because, you know, team orders and Ferrari.

Mercedes orders Bottas to slow down to avoid passing Hamilton: nobody reacts in any way, if someone does it's only to call it a great tactical move.

And that's the reason why I don't frequent this part of the forums.
 
I'm not against team orders, it is a team sport after all. Things get far worse when the FIA try to step in and ban them, because then you get contentious coded messages that everyone knows should be punished but aren't because the words were very slightly veiled... In Mercedes case, they were helping the overall team position in stopping Albon from passing Hamilton, rather than keeping Bottas behind him. It was clear and with no grey area to the message. Ferrari however have faced 2 races on the bounce where team orders are being deployed to directly affect which driver takes a win (or potential win in Russia) whilst not affecting the fact the team result. They made things far too complicated for themselves in Sochi, and should have simply asked Leclerc to think about the team and position Vettel within the slipstream rather than Hamilton. After that, it is up to you to defend your lead from Vettel.

I'm very curious what would have happened if Vettel had got an amazing start, or Leclerc had got an awful start. Leclerc would have then had the slipstream (you would have thought!) from Vettel to regain his lead, and then what do Ferrari do? Just ridiculous that Ferrari simply don't seem able to learn how they should go about racing as a team first and then as 2 cars after that.

Regarding the VSC call to close the pitlane, it would cause far more issues than it solves. If you are in the pitlane when the VSC is initiated, will you get a penalty? What if you have a puncture or other technical problem? Like the safety car, teams know what effect a VSC will have on a race and it is no doubt what Mercedes banked on when they used the medium tyres in Q2. As pointed out before, it is only because it worked in Hamilton's favour that it is questioned...
 
Pezzarinho17
Regarding the VSC call to close the pitlane, it would cause far more issues than it solves. If you are in the pitlane when the VSC is initiated, will you get a penalty? What if you have a puncture or other technical problem? Like the safety car, teams know what effect a VSC will have on a race and it is no doubt what Mercedes banked on when they used the medium tyres in Q2. As pointed out before, it is only because it worked in Hamilton's favour that it is questioned...
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Those issues already have solutions in series that close the pitlane, like Indycar and IMSA. If you’re in the pits when they get closed, there’s no penalty for that. Generally, it’s only pit entry that gets closed, exit stays open. If a car has damage, or is critical on fuel, they can stop for “emergency service”, where they are allowed to repair damage, replace flat tires, and add up to 5 seconds worth of fuel.

Closing the pits doesn’t completely eliminate the order being shuffled around because of a VSC or SC, but it lowers the chances of it happening.

For sure though, accounting for the probability of a VSC or SC is part of strategy and planning. You have to set yourself up to get lucky.
 
There would be no problem closing it because refuelling doesn't exist now.

I think it would be fair to ban in a VSC.

But then you got the SC situation where it's basically a VSC untill your behind the safety car and there is more issues then.
 

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