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Hi, I haven't been on in a while really, long time member but rarely a poster. Seen as no one knows me, here is a bit of background, my name is Ben and I have no drivers licence. Haha, I ride and build motorcycles as a hobby so I have a bit of mechanical knowledge behind me and present projects are a 85% aftermarket and ever changing Mk1 Bandit 1200 which lays down 210rwhp on the dyno through a Garrett t25/28 hybrid turbo, and a CG125 cafe racer that is in the early stages of build. I have pics if anyone is bothered. I am a long time racing sim fan, PC, X-box, PS, all iterations, all titles. All the way from GT1 on the PS to Forza on the original X-box to even MSR and F355 Challenge on the Dreamcast. However, I'd like to point out that I am fairly casual, controllers only and not spending hours and hours tuning cars. I am still capable of slapping a few parts on a car, no tune and laying down a top 1,000 time though, so not too slouchy.
I have watched the speculation and hype about Forza 5, the pessimism and disappointments with GT6, and eventually made a decision on what to do next. I hasten to add this decision was aided by the possibility of the release of a sequel of a certain 'Broseph Forza spin off franchise that turned out to be a bit of a dark horse in terms of enjoyment. I think you know which I mean...
So I finally went into town the other day towing my X360, PS3 and 50ish games (they loved me, and the people in the que behind me also loved me) to trade and came out with an Xbone, 3 games and an extended swap out warranty which IMO is a must with a new (and untested) console after the debacle with the X360. Incidentally, Dead Rising 3 is really good fun. But you know I got Forza...
Call me a fanboy if you will, but I had to make a decision which way to turn and for me the recent performance of the main GT and Forza franchises meant it was a no brainer, both due to the limp wristed release of GT5 and the solving of no real issues in the consequent GBs of updates (though the same could be aimed at the lack of much bug fixing in FM4 through subsequent updates) I've lost faith in PD and I'm not going to drop £xxx on a console on which the main franchise draw for me might be as tragic as GT5 was... Harsh words perhaps, but the taste of purchasing a £300 console and a £40 game and having it be shockingly unfinished, buggy and surprisingly for PD, inaccurate in it's representation of many cars lies sour in the mouth. For me FM4 was when Forza took over from GT, and it was no longer required to purchase both consoles to 'not miss out' so to speak on one or the other. This coming from someone that spent hours and hours in GT4 over a good couple of years by the way...
Turn 10 proved they can turn out a massive and polished game in a short time frame and whilst that time frame may limit the revisions they can make, it also ensures the game does not stray too far away from it's roots in one fell swoop. I also have a lot of respect for Turn 10, whilst they lack the 'it's done when it's done and it's my vision and screw you, you'll have 80 skylines and no new European cars ever' disposition of PD, they are sticking to core values, 60FPS, high detail, extensive customisation and the pushing of the concept of actually owning the cars you have in the game. Some times in GT5 I felt like I was being allowed to drive the cars by the game, but they were on loan and that's why I couldn't change the wheels or fit a spoiler or paint them any colour I wanted... God forbid should we get a livery editor, that would be a bit too free thinking. I think me and GT have fallen out of sync, I disagree with the directions and decisions taken and my biggest power as a consumer is to take my money elsewhere...
Enough waffle, I just hate when people put 'I hate GT' or 'I hate Forza' and give no good reason... The game. Yep, unmistakeably Forza. Smaller, perhaps, but polished and slick menus, weird 'there's going to be a human sacrifice' drummy music which appears to have come from the rather dramatic NFS franchise.
Oh my, the visuals. I have been perusing the photo threads in here for a while, having dabbled in photo mode but not really delved in myself I enjoyed looking at what people have put the time into producing. Some of the pics are indistinguishable from real apart from a watermark, others are so good they are obviously not real, they are too clear, too clean to be real. To think that this kind of stuff can also move at 60fps is stunning and to see it in the flesh is quite mind blowing. The lighting effects are quite overblown, however tied all together the game just works visually. The smoke is still disappointing as is the dirt thrown up by the cars, not to mention the hand spasms and out of sync shifts that accompany quick gear changes but it's picking hairs. These things can be fixed and they aren't enough to break the game visually. Smoothness is key and the refusal to drop frames even when it gets seriously busy on screen is worth a few shortcuts to me. Having an actual windshield makes a surprising difference too, it no longer feels like you are just looking at a flat representation of a dashboard in the way of the bumper cam. It can only get better as the engine is further optimised to use more of the Xbone's poke in coming sequels.
Sound, well there's a lot of it. Collisions are clunky perhaps, sounding the same pretty much regardless of situation and like I mentioned the music grates after a while, however turning it off is as easy as accessing a menu. Most importantly cars sound deliciously over the top and cruising about running slowly through the rev range in a big V8 muscle car or a V-tech Honda is a good way of wasting 10 minutes, but they have also put some serious effort into reverb and echo. Tunnels and cliff faces in other racing games don't seem quite the same now. Certain cars are outstanding, the Supra huffing on a big single turbo is backfire city and it... Well it just sounds scary to be frank. To say other cars sound worse would be a bit misleading, the worst sounding car in Forza 5 is still going to be a better sounding car than the majority of other racing title's efforts.
Physics - Always an opinion, never a fact but what can be said is that Forza's handling model is a bitey little beast when provoked these days. In FM4 I could get away with simulation steering on the controller, in FM5 I struggle. All the cars feel different to drive, from the front wheelers that reward smooth inputs and delicate throttle balance to the MRs that have epic grip but when pushed break into understeer which can turn into snap oversteer when a correction is attempted. The handling can be tamed with numerous aids but the main fun to be had is with switching it all off and trying to manhandle a 600hp beast around a technical track like Laguna or Spa, my personal favourites from the game. The driving model makes hot lapping a joy, Forza was always the only game I would sit for hours and play a single track and car trying to get my time down on. The new one is no different, with a finely nuanced model there is always something to learn about your vehicle and somewhere to find the next tenth of a second. It is a very complete physics model for a game, many factors and variables are modeled and you can tell that much time has been spent over the years fine tuning it. The cars have weight and the new controller does a good (albeit compromised) job of translating that sensation to your hands via the rumble and impulse triggers, with ques when you are on the edge of traction under braking and when on throttle out of the corners. The model is also good at pointing out stupidity and making modifications necessary rather than frivolous, for example dropping an LS block into the Datsun 510 makes it... Squirmy, but that can be quashed with the 2 way diff, it can even be made manageable with a well set up one. There are few games which really reflect this, most just seem to be happy with the nonsense - Ah, you've made a ridiculous modification therefore your car is faster - which is almost always not true in the real world.
Content is slim, however it's slim compared to FM4 which was a goliath of a game and GT5 that I tired of long before I got anywhere into it's hugeness, really. FM5 is still a huge game and the modification and livery aspects means that almost all it's 200 cars demand attention to make them yours and yours alone. Tracks are limited, there is presently no denying that, and the loss of the 'Nurb was a bit of a blow but the reasoning behind it is sound to me. No carry overs, no old stuff, all high quality. I have no issue with what is there, good, electic mix of jaw droppingly detailed cars, beautifully modelled tracks and plenty of leagues to keep things interesting. Having them all introduced by Top Gear presenters is a nice touch too. Lack of night racing and weather is still a bugbear for some folks, i could care less about it and the examples that are around presently irk me. The one candlepower lights in GT5 pissed me off and so did the buggy rain dynamics and visuals. Turn 10s reluctance to put them in and half ass them is fine by me, they will appear when they are ready, not before. Race features such as qualifying, flags and pitstops are still noticeably absent, even as an option. Forza seems to be an arcade series in this respect.
All in all I think that FM5 is a delicious taster for what is to come for Forza. They have a basis that has set the bar high and it can only get higher with the coming games. Really little work is needed visually or in the handling model, but we all know that T10 will still work on it anyway, just give us more high end cars and tracks and I'll be happy as larry!
I have watched the speculation and hype about Forza 5, the pessimism and disappointments with GT6, and eventually made a decision on what to do next. I hasten to add this decision was aided by the possibility of the release of a sequel of a certain 'Broseph Forza spin off franchise that turned out to be a bit of a dark horse in terms of enjoyment. I think you know which I mean...
So I finally went into town the other day towing my X360, PS3 and 50ish games (they loved me, and the people in the que behind me also loved me) to trade and came out with an Xbone, 3 games and an extended swap out warranty which IMO is a must with a new (and untested) console after the debacle with the X360. Incidentally, Dead Rising 3 is really good fun. But you know I got Forza...
Call me a fanboy if you will, but I had to make a decision which way to turn and for me the recent performance of the main GT and Forza franchises meant it was a no brainer, both due to the limp wristed release of GT5 and the solving of no real issues in the consequent GBs of updates (though the same could be aimed at the lack of much bug fixing in FM4 through subsequent updates) I've lost faith in PD and I'm not going to drop £xxx on a console on which the main franchise draw for me might be as tragic as GT5 was... Harsh words perhaps, but the taste of purchasing a £300 console and a £40 game and having it be shockingly unfinished, buggy and surprisingly for PD, inaccurate in it's representation of many cars lies sour in the mouth. For me FM4 was when Forza took over from GT, and it was no longer required to purchase both consoles to 'not miss out' so to speak on one or the other. This coming from someone that spent hours and hours in GT4 over a good couple of years by the way...
Turn 10 proved they can turn out a massive and polished game in a short time frame and whilst that time frame may limit the revisions they can make, it also ensures the game does not stray too far away from it's roots in one fell swoop. I also have a lot of respect for Turn 10, whilst they lack the 'it's done when it's done and it's my vision and screw you, you'll have 80 skylines and no new European cars ever' disposition of PD, they are sticking to core values, 60FPS, high detail, extensive customisation and the pushing of the concept of actually owning the cars you have in the game. Some times in GT5 I felt like I was being allowed to drive the cars by the game, but they were on loan and that's why I couldn't change the wheels or fit a spoiler or paint them any colour I wanted... God forbid should we get a livery editor, that would be a bit too free thinking. I think me and GT have fallen out of sync, I disagree with the directions and decisions taken and my biggest power as a consumer is to take my money elsewhere...
Enough waffle, I just hate when people put 'I hate GT' or 'I hate Forza' and give no good reason... The game. Yep, unmistakeably Forza. Smaller, perhaps, but polished and slick menus, weird 'there's going to be a human sacrifice' drummy music which appears to have come from the rather dramatic NFS franchise.
Oh my, the visuals. I have been perusing the photo threads in here for a while, having dabbled in photo mode but not really delved in myself I enjoyed looking at what people have put the time into producing. Some of the pics are indistinguishable from real apart from a watermark, others are so good they are obviously not real, they are too clear, too clean to be real. To think that this kind of stuff can also move at 60fps is stunning and to see it in the flesh is quite mind blowing. The lighting effects are quite overblown, however tied all together the game just works visually. The smoke is still disappointing as is the dirt thrown up by the cars, not to mention the hand spasms and out of sync shifts that accompany quick gear changes but it's picking hairs. These things can be fixed and they aren't enough to break the game visually. Smoothness is key and the refusal to drop frames even when it gets seriously busy on screen is worth a few shortcuts to me. Having an actual windshield makes a surprising difference too, it no longer feels like you are just looking at a flat representation of a dashboard in the way of the bumper cam. It can only get better as the engine is further optimised to use more of the Xbone's poke in coming sequels.
Sound, well there's a lot of it. Collisions are clunky perhaps, sounding the same pretty much regardless of situation and like I mentioned the music grates after a while, however turning it off is as easy as accessing a menu. Most importantly cars sound deliciously over the top and cruising about running slowly through the rev range in a big V8 muscle car or a V-tech Honda is a good way of wasting 10 minutes, but they have also put some serious effort into reverb and echo. Tunnels and cliff faces in other racing games don't seem quite the same now. Certain cars are outstanding, the Supra huffing on a big single turbo is backfire city and it... Well it just sounds scary to be frank. To say other cars sound worse would be a bit misleading, the worst sounding car in Forza 5 is still going to be a better sounding car than the majority of other racing title's efforts.
Physics - Always an opinion, never a fact but what can be said is that Forza's handling model is a bitey little beast when provoked these days. In FM4 I could get away with simulation steering on the controller, in FM5 I struggle. All the cars feel different to drive, from the front wheelers that reward smooth inputs and delicate throttle balance to the MRs that have epic grip but when pushed break into understeer which can turn into snap oversteer when a correction is attempted. The handling can be tamed with numerous aids but the main fun to be had is with switching it all off and trying to manhandle a 600hp beast around a technical track like Laguna or Spa, my personal favourites from the game. The driving model makes hot lapping a joy, Forza was always the only game I would sit for hours and play a single track and car trying to get my time down on. The new one is no different, with a finely nuanced model there is always something to learn about your vehicle and somewhere to find the next tenth of a second. It is a very complete physics model for a game, many factors and variables are modeled and you can tell that much time has been spent over the years fine tuning it. The cars have weight and the new controller does a good (albeit compromised) job of translating that sensation to your hands via the rumble and impulse triggers, with ques when you are on the edge of traction under braking and when on throttle out of the corners. The model is also good at pointing out stupidity and making modifications necessary rather than frivolous, for example dropping an LS block into the Datsun 510 makes it... Squirmy, but that can be quashed with the 2 way diff, it can even be made manageable with a well set up one. There are few games which really reflect this, most just seem to be happy with the nonsense - Ah, you've made a ridiculous modification therefore your car is faster - which is almost always not true in the real world.
Content is slim, however it's slim compared to FM4 which was a goliath of a game and GT5 that I tired of long before I got anywhere into it's hugeness, really. FM5 is still a huge game and the modification and livery aspects means that almost all it's 200 cars demand attention to make them yours and yours alone. Tracks are limited, there is presently no denying that, and the loss of the 'Nurb was a bit of a blow but the reasoning behind it is sound to me. No carry overs, no old stuff, all high quality. I have no issue with what is there, good, electic mix of jaw droppingly detailed cars, beautifully modelled tracks and plenty of leagues to keep things interesting. Having them all introduced by Top Gear presenters is a nice touch too. Lack of night racing and weather is still a bugbear for some folks, i could care less about it and the examples that are around presently irk me. The one candlepower lights in GT5 pissed me off and so did the buggy rain dynamics and visuals. Turn 10s reluctance to put them in and half ass them is fine by me, they will appear when they are ready, not before. Race features such as qualifying, flags and pitstops are still noticeably absent, even as an option. Forza seems to be an arcade series in this respect.
All in all I think that FM5 is a delicious taster for what is to come for Forza. They have a basis that has set the bar high and it can only get higher with the coming games. Really little work is needed visually or in the handling model, but we all know that T10 will still work on it anyway, just give us more high end cars and tracks and I'll be happy as larry!
One thing about the music is that it changes depending on where you are in the menus, open up the tuning or paint sub menus and it becomes a lot more ambient and warbly.
