Forza Motorsport General Discussion Thread

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PJTierney
Personally I'm not painting in Forza Motorsport at all until the entire suite of tools matches Forza Horizon 5 in terms of functionality and performance. It's simply unplayable in current form.
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I don't know why they didn't just lift the vinyl and livery editor code from the Horizon fork. PGG has already solved most of the problems, and it's not like T10 was adding any ambitious new features. There's no good reason why the editor should be different between the two franchises.
 
There's a countdown timer for week 4 of this period, it's around midnight CET tonight.

The next patch is coming in just over a week.
 
Super minor detail but before the Forza Monthly stream started, there was this kickin' beat playing. Would've been awesome as a garage tune, they should look into some playlist or rotate some selective beats like GT does. This beat is perfect for it and even when you are waiting for others to join a conference call.

Here's the tune:
 
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The John Fitzpatrick 956 (chassis 956-102) that's coming to the game was actually raced by Larry Perkins and Peter Brock!
www.v8sleuth.com.au

Eye-watering price on Brock and Perkins’ Le Mans Porsche

THE car that Peter Brock and Larry Perkins raced at the Le Mans 24 Hours has come up for sale in Europe.Brock and Perkins tackled the 1984 edition of the iconic sportscar enduro in a highly publi
www.v8sleuth.com.au www.v8sleuth.com.au
 
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ScottPuss20
The John Fitzpatrick 956 (chassis 956-102) that's coming to the game was actually raced by Larry Perkins and Peter Brock!
www.v8sleuth.com.au

Eye-watering price on Brock and Perkins’ Le Mans Porsche

THE car that Peter Brock and Larry Perkins raced at the Le Mans 24 Hours has come up for sale in Europe.Brock and Perkins tackled the 1984 edition of the iconic sportscar enduro in a highly publi
www.v8sleuth.com.au www.v8sleuth.com.au
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Thats cool. Its hard for me to tell the 956 and the 962 apart, I always thought the 962 was a longtail and the 956 was a shorter tail. But apparently both had long and short tail versions and the one we are getting appears to be a longtail version.
 


I've defended this game and I've tried to call out the things that I'm enjoying so when I saw this video pop up on my recommended I didn't expect to watch the whole thing because I figured it was going to be over the top critical and complaining. It certainly was not that

Not only is the video excellent and calmly explaining the issues but he makes a point at the very end that shocked me because it was the first time I had heard it.

Apparently the game was supposed to be built from the ground up but years into development they scrapped that idea for whatever reasons and just used what assets they already had and combined them with whatever new they had put together. He explains it better than I'm explaining it so if you watch the video you'll hear what he says and for those who are close to the development community I'm interested in knowing if this really could have happened.
 
slthree
Apparently the game was supposed to be built from the ground up but years into development they scrapped that idea for whatever reasons and just used what assets they already had and combined them with whatever new they had put together. He explains it better than I'm explaining it so if you watch the video you'll hear what he says and for those who are close to the development community I'm interested in knowing if this really could have happened.
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The whole "built from the ground up" is a sales pitch that the game designers trotted out, I would never put much stock in statements like that, it would have been mentioned first alongside a release window that that probably looked comfortable when they said it. The fact that it was mentioned so much in public was a huge mistake that they won't live down for some time.

The truth isn't likely that the game was truly built from scratch, what is more likely is that certain systems were stripped out, namely the physics and handling models. This would have meant they could produce a proof of concept or early builds much quicker as they could reuse assets and systems that they hadn't had time to touch yet. Then as they got closer to release, and maybe realising that the physics model was taking longer and consuming more engineers than they expected (not least due to COVID), they had to keep more of the old systems that existed before.

Personally none of this bothers me, I've had more fun in this game than any other Sim for the last 2 years since I bought my most recent wheel. I've encountered less bugs than other Sims that people here and elsewhere praise as examples that Forza should aspire to. As an example, I've had multiple crashes in AC, ACC, AMS2, and GT7 during multiplayer races, something that has never happened to me in in over 120hrs of FM, as much as it's annoying to get booted out before a race starts, it was infuriating to start a race and have it crash after getting a good race start and starting to battle.
 
slthree


I've defended this game and I've tried to call out the things that I'm enjoying so when I saw this video pop up on my recommended I didn't expect to watch the whole thing because I figured it was going to be over the top critical and complaining. It certainly was not that

Not only is the video excellent and calmly explaining the issues but he makes a point at the very end that shocked me because it was the first time I had heard it.

Apparently the game was supposed to be built from the ground up but years into development they scrapped that idea for whatever reasons and just used what assets they already had and combined them with whatever new they had put together. He explains it better than I'm explaining it so if you watch the video you'll hear what he says and for those who are close to the development community I'm interested in knowing if this really could have happened.
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Same thoughts for me, this appeared on my recommended tab yesterday and I did watch the whole thing too. Good video IMHO, calm explanation and credits given where due.
 
slthree
Apparently the game was supposed to be built from the ground up but years into development they scrapped that idea for whatever reasons and just used what assets they already had and combined them with whatever new they had put together. He explains it better than I'm explaining it so if you watch the video you'll hear what he says and for those who are close to the development community I'm interested in knowing if this really could have happened.
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It seems like a lot of stuff like the experimental drag and drifting would have been in the game if that were the case. These modes were pretty much confirmed to be be in the next game, back then.

what has some credence is that them restarting work on some parts. Evidently they aimed to have RTGI in the game, but weren't able to hit that target, and had to resort to FH5's GI with a little bit more RT Reflections and RTAO. It even seems like the game was meant for a 2021/2022 release, because all of the cars are basically 2019/2018 (once FM7 stopped getting content).
The physics seem to be the only things that have pretty much all the stuff working that were talked about from the 2019/2020 streams.
Every thing else seems to be a rush job. I do not understand why the livery editor/tune & livery browser/Photo mode are pretty much from FM7/FH4 rather than the stuff from FH5. Lack of forza stuff like the Stats, smaller forza vista features like turning on the car are missing, Hoppers, Launch control, Anti Lag, auction house etc. will stand out too.
 
Jumped on to try out the new Peugeot TCR this morning, if you're a cockpit view user you can add this to the list of cars with good cockpit views, has decent visibility and rear-view is not off-screen when using the wheel-less camera

6tQSYet.jpg
 
Conspiracy theories aside, FM23 driving feel with a controller is just about perfect. Because of this I'm able to forgive quite a lot else, because in the end the most important thing of all in a racing game is the feel of the driving.

But I'm not surprised T10 was struggling, since after all they dropped from being the main franchise owners to being the team which supports PG's Horizon series. It can't have been an easy thing to have to accept.
 
skazz
Conspiracy theories aside, FM23 driving feel with a controller is just about perfect. Because of this I'm able to forgive quite a lot else, because in the end the most important thing of all in a racing game is the feel of the driving.

But I'm not surprised T10 was struggling, since after all they dropped from being the main franchise owners to being the team which supports PG's Horizon series. It can't have been an easy thing to have to accept.
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The part about the "built from the ground up"-game being scrapped after 3-4 years of development, and the game we got being hastily put together after that, sounds like just another conspiracy theory to me. There's been play testing with the community going on since early 2021. I imagine that would've been hard to do if everything was suddenly scrapped.

Slthree states that "the game doesn't feel like it's been six years in development". Well, if he'd just taken time to do a simple Google search he'd found out that early production started March 2019. So no, it has indeed not been in development for 6 years.

Let's not forget that Covid arrived just months after the work on FM'23 had started. Chris Esaki himself described 2020-2021 as the "Dark Souls of game development". I imagine everything was harder and took way more time when everyone was working from home. I'm not defending Turn 10, but this is an explanation at least.

I think @nukleabomb theory sounds more likely. After re-working the physics and modifying the game engine (going from baked lighting to real time etc), there wasn't enough time to update some reused assets like old car models for example.

This is just my semi-(un)educated guesses. What do you think @PJTierney? You have way more knowledge about this sort of thing.
 
The GMA T.50 is probably the most fun I’ve had driving a car of its speed and rating so far in this game. Really planted and quite easy to control, but the higher ride height means it moves around quite a bit still.

Struggled with the 308 TCR though. The lobby I competed in with was dominated by them at the front, but I felt completely at sea with it.
 
The GMA T.50 is a fantastic sounding car, enjoying that one a lot. But... why is the shift animation using the headlight and horn paddles when the car is a stick shift manual? Also, why are there mismatched passenger seats, shouldn't the central seat be the yellow/orange one and not one of the passenger seats?

All 3 seats are different colors in fact:
2fed1d03-51bf-4797-8d94-f9e82a24fd0d.png

56f1122b-dab3-479a-965a-ccd8ec4cd2b4.png
 
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SPhilli911
The GMA T.50 is a fantastic sounding car, enjoying that one a lot. But... why is the shift animation using the headlight and horn paddles when the car is a stick shift manual? Also, why are there mismatched passenger seats, shouldn't the central seat be the yellow/orange one and not one of the passenger seats?

All 3 seats are different colors in fact:
View attachment 1309609
View attachment 1309610
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Seems like something patch could fix but hopefully T10 sees these issues and fixes them..this car is too iconic to be incorrect.
 
Hasse 86
The part about the "built from the ground up"-game being scrapped after 3-4 years of development, and the game we got being hastily put together after that, sounds like just another conspiracy theory to me. There's been play testing with the community going on since early 2021. I imagine that would've been hard to do if everything was suddenly scrapped.

Slthree states that "the game doesn't feel like it's been six years in development". Well, if he'd just taken time to do a simple Google search he'd found out that early production started March 2019. So no, it has indeed not been in development for 6 years.

Let's not forget that Covid arrived just months after the work on FM'23 had started. Chris Esaki himself described 2020-2021 as the "Dark Souls of game development". I imagine everything was harder and took way more time when everyone was working from home. I'm not defending Turn 10, but this is an explanation at least.

I think @nukleabomb theory sounds more likely. After re-working the physics and modifying the game engine (going from baked lighting to real time etc), there wasn't enough time to update some reused assets like old car models for example.

This is just my semi-(un)educated guesses. What do you think @PJTierney? You have way more knowledge about this sort of thing.
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2020 had an impact on everyone, that's a given.

I don't know about the theory of "they had a fully new game engine then ripped it all apart and started over".

I think this game's a victim of a more classic and mundane occurrence: scope creep.

Lots of ideas and content being added, not enough time to refine the concepts and fix the thousands of bugs that get reported pre-launch.

As players we can only look at the end result in theorise, but for all we know the career and progressions systems may have gone through 5 or 6 scrapped iterations before they finally found one that sort of works, or some of the ideas that help those reach full potential kept getting pushed back..

Game dev is hard.
 
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Hasse 86
The part about the "built from the ground up"-game being scrapped after 3-4 years of development, and the game we got being hastily put together after that, sounds like just another conspiracy theory to me. There's been play testing with the community going on since early 2021. I imagine that would've been hard to do if everything was suddenly scrapped.

Slthree states that "the game doesn't feel like it's been six years in development". Well, if he'd just taken time to do a simple Google search he'd found out that early production started March 2019. So no, it has indeed not been in development for 6 years.

Let's not forget that Covid arrived just months after the work on FM'23 had started. Chris Esaki himself described 2020-2021 as the "Dark Souls of game development". I imagine everything was harder and took way more time when everyone was working from home. I'm not defending Turn 10, but this is an explanation at least.

I think @nukleabomb theory sounds more likely. After re-working the physics and modifying the game engine (going from baked lighting to real time etc), there wasn't enough time to update some reused assets like old car models for example.

This is just my semi-(un)educated guesses. What do you think @PJTierney? You have way more knowledge about this sort of thing.
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I'll also add, if the Covid years were bad for productivity, the last year has been even worse, so just when they have been trying to tighten everything up for release, a lot has happened that would have negatively affected development.
 
Changing topics: One thing FM23 has given me in general is more awareness of how to use curbs. Previously I tended to be very cautious of curbs based on lots of previous games which didn't like you touching them. However since FM23 allows you to take many liberties on the curbs and counts them as part of the racing track, I've got used to using them as part of the track myself.

I discovered that this habit switches over just fine to ACC. I beat a few of my previous lap records in that game because of my improved use of the curbs.
 
skazz
Changing topics: One thing FM23 has given me in general is more awareness of how to use curbs. Previously I tended to be very cautious of curbs based on lots of previous games which didn't like you touching them. However since FM23 allows you to take many liberties on the curbs and counts them as part of the racing track, I've got used to using them as part of the track myself.

I discovered that this habit switches over just fine to ACC. I beat a few of my previous lap records in that game because of my improved use of the curbs.
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Just be careful of those squares of death at Silverstone, fine on a road car, but will give you a hell of a fright if you drive over them in a GT car
 
syphe
Just be careful of those squares of death at Silverstone, fine on a road car, but will give you a hell of a fright if you drive over them in a GT car
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And they can break your car! I was riding over them in a production supercar, (sorry can't remember which one), and sfter striking a them a few times my engine started missing, progressively got worse to the point that I dropped from 1st to 4th.
 
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It would be interesting to know what people are doing in Forza. I’m sure they track what people are doing and hopefully (or not) using the information for updates…….
 
ctdc67
It would be interesting to know what people are doing in Forza. I’m sure they track what people are doing and hopefully (or not) using the information for updates…….
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Every studio with a LiveOps team is tracking all sorts of metrics.

They can even get as granular as how often you use a particular camera view.
 
PJTierney
2020 had an impact on everyone, that's a given.

I don't know about the theory of "they had a fully new game engine then ripped it all apart and started over".

I think this game's a victim of a more classic and mundane occurrence: scope creep.

Lots of ideas and content being added, not enough time to refine the concepts and fix the thousands of bugs that get reported pre-launch.

As players we can only look at the end result in theorise, but for all we know the career and progressions systems may have gone through 5 or 6 scrapped iterations before they finally found one that sort of works, or some of the ideas that help those reach full potential kept getting pushed back..

Game dev is hard.
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My (conspiracy) theory is either something major was changed quite late into the dev cycle or the new engine was that much of a struggle they really did spend the whole time slogging it out.

I've had a good dig through the various xml and config files, there is a lot that was omitted from the end game, such as what looks to be CarXP for racing activities like drafting, passing, blocking, drifting, high speed and turning (of which this seems to be the only thing included in the end game, at least from what I see in the UI).

I absolutely despise CarXP and have not played the game for over a month as a result of it, I will likely not return while it is a thing due to the excessive grind but it does look like you were supposed to progress faster through multiple activities during a race.

I've also found race presets for custom, circuit race, timed race, drag, multi-class, drift, tag, tag virus, tag keep the it, meetup and 'prototype' which might just be a preset placeholder.

It all looks like to me a fair amount was planned but not introduced, for me personally the game will stay uninstalled until I don't have to spend hours grinding out just to modify a car how I want, I don't want FH style car showers with everything handed to me, but the economy just needed to be balanced to something like FM4 where you felt compelled to race for money but still had freedom to play and enjoy the game within reason.
 
neddyie1988
Looking forward to getting the GMA T 50 tonight:)
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Could someone please explain to me what this is all about? Some new cars randomly get added to the game?

Has the Aston V12 Vantage S '13 beendet added together with the T50?
 
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I don't know if it's been talked about in here or another thread but just wanted to throw out some tuning information.
Under the tab Suspension Geometry. Get rid of that Anti Geometry crap. Turn it to zero (or as close to zero as you can get it) and test the cars. It gets rid of the understeery mess that a lot of cars have. Makes them more lively. It seems to be setup to make the cars understeer and easier to use, maybe for controller? I don't know but you get your steering back. Especially more useful on the stock tires which I find actually usable now. Why they put these fake suspension settings in here, I have no clue. Seems like an overall blanket setting to make a car behave a certain way without doing it the right way with actual car components tuning.
 

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