Forza Motorsport General Discussion Thread

[deththrasher]

I had an idea where they could implement Horizon and Motorsport combined hybrid style next generation so you have the option to exit the circuits and then race out side in Horizon mode so it caters for both players.

Or they could even add Motorsport circuits as DLC in Horizon so they can keep them running together and release every 2 years like they used to.

It was just an idea but the thought of playing a Motorsport Circuit and then going to the car park (it then loading Horizon cars and physics) and racing out the gates to off road or road tracks point to point around each track!

I know it probably will never happen or could be possible to do easily but I thought a 'hybrid' version could work with all the devs there in one team now.

It is also a shame as I too have followed Turn 10 since the beginning and it is very sad to see them get split up like this. I also agree it is great with the controller and I love the new tracks they added by the end.

My dream was always a game like GT/FM but then you could drive the surrounding world outside the track with simulation physics. The closest has always been PC Sims with mods. I remember GTR2 way back in the day I downloaded a Nurburgring mod that you could leave the track and drive around the German countryside, very limited or course. Now Assetto Corsa Evo is doing that for real! I find Forza Horizon fun but ultimately shallow, because the cars are just too easy and forgiving and roads much too wide. I get why, that's why it's such a popular series to the masses, but we a sim nerd I think that's where track based racers should go! Options and freedom is never a bad thing

 

[Speedster911]

What a crying shame this game was abandoned. Yes it is massively flawed but the potential is enormous. The "career" mode is barebones, the UI less intuitive than previous entries but the actual on track driving has never been better. With Asha now in charge of Xbox is there hope the series can be rekindled? Every time I hop in the game for a hotlap around the Nurburgring I fall in love with the games fundamentals because they are just so right. It is the best playing racing simulator ever made for a gamepad, nothing comes close. I love my wheel and playing Assetto Corsa, Rfactor 2 etc but now many of us are older, with a wife and kids it's much less practical to set the wheel up and nerd out. Being able to just boot up the game and pull out your trusty Xbox pad and have a secret nerd out session, flying your favourite cars around your favourite tracks WITHOUT having to pull the rig out is fantastic. I have played GT7, the gamepad gameplay is mediocre, they haven't got gamepad gameplay right since...GT4? Lose the rear end in a car and you're dead. In Forza? You can realistically manage and caress the car back to where you want it. Why can no other dev come close in this area?

I am convinced if Asha gave the greenlight to revamp this game, give it a proper Forza Motorsport 4 career mode with world tour + event list, spruce up the AI and added all the new car models and remodels from Horizon 6 this game could have a massive resurgence.

Graphically they don't need to do much, the game already looks stunning with RTAO enabled, and I also tweaked the colour pallet to be a bit more muted, more Forza Motorsport 4 or GT7 like I guess


View attachment 1566231

Come on Xbox, don't let this series die! Yes Horizon is fun but it's so SO much more shallow than a proper focused track racing simulator, and one that's plays so well on the pad needs to thrive for us old ****s.

Absolutely agree, mate. Beyond crying shame. It was improved so much and then they just dropped it like a child no one wanted. They really should pick this up as they only stand to benefit from it. I don't know why Asha and her team is out of touch with this - the fact that so many people love FM23, still play it, and want it to improve.

 

[SimTourist]

Absolutely agree, mate. Beyond crying shame. It was improved so much and then they just dropped it like a child no one wanted. They really should pick this up as they only stand to benefit from it. I don't know why Asha and her team is out of touch with this - the fact that so many people love FM23, still play it, and want it to improve.

The player numbers were pathetic even a month after launch, there's really nothing to gain when Horizon probably has 100 times higher player numbers

 

[deththrasher]

The player numbers were pathetic even a month after launch, there's really nothing to gain when Horizon probably has 100 times higher player numbers

They can gain traction through vast improvements to the games features such as the career mode structure. As the reputation improves so will the player numbers. Just because Horizon is the more popular game doesn't mean FM can't thrive either if it's handled correctly. Look at FM4 and FH1. Both were hugely successful around the same time

 

[SimTourist]

They can gain traction through vast improvements to the games features such as the career mode structure. As the reputation improves so will the player numbers. Just because Horizon is the more popular game doesn't mean FM can't thrive either if it's handled correctly. Look at FM4 and FH1. Both were hugely successful around the same time

For the expenses involved FM just isn't that popular to run a AAA studio in Washington, most sim devs are small teams located in cheaper places so they're able to operate with a smaller dedicated fanbase, on the other end you have polyphony that operates at AAA level but has a large fanbase to make the numbers make sense. Turn10 has been stuck in the middle since FM5, AAA budget but only modest sales of 2-3 million which these days is only good for a AA studio project.

 

[deththrasher]

For the expenses involved FM just isn't that popular to run a AAA studio in Washington, most sim devs are small teams located in cheaper places so they're able to operate with a smaller dedicated fanbase, on the other end you have polyphony that operates at AAA level but has a large fanbase to make the numbers make sense. Turn10 has been stuck in the middle since FM5, AAA budget but only modest sales of 2-3 million which these days is only good for a AA studio project.

But that's because the quality started to slip after FM4, they need a team of die hard motorracing enthusiasts. Other sims devs could only dream of the budget T10 used to get to make their games, they like many Xbox studios were completely mismanaged, fired all the expertise in favour of cheap contract Devs and the results are poor with no true vision. If they could band devs from the FM4 days, maybe get some Playground guys, ez simbin etc. The series has potential it's just been squandered

 

[SimTourist]

But that's because the quality started to slip after FM4, they need a team of die hard motorracing enthusiasts. Other sims devs could only dream of the budget T10 used to get to make their games, they like many Xbox studios were completely mismanaged, fired all the expertise in favour of cheap contract Devs and the results are poor with no true vision. If they could band devs from the FM4 days, maybe get some Playground guys, ez simbin etc. The series has potential it's just been squandered

Even at their peak they only managed 5 million sales with FM3 and that was heavily bundled with xbox 360 which itself was at the peak of brand's popularity. They managed to gain some popularity amidst PS3's struggles and the gap between GT4 and GT5 but after ps and gt found their footing again it was all over for them, they never really shook off the perception of being a knock off GT and were always derided for crappy car models, inaccurate track models, handling being too arcady for a sim (somewhat unfairly), bad wheel support, etc. It just never found it's niche, too serious and boring for casual players, too arcady and goofy for sim players.

 

[Tired Tyres]

It's a shame because the actual driving is the best its ever been. I blame the players who didn't buy the game.

 

[deththrasher]

Even at their peak they only managed 5 million sales with FM3 and that was heavily bundled with xbox 360 which itself was at the peak of brand's popularity. They managed to gain some popularity amidst PS3's struggles and the gap between GT4 and GT5 but after ps and gt found their footing again it was all over for them, they never really shook off the perception of being a knock off GT and were always derided for crappy car models, inaccurate track models, handling being too arcady for a sim (somewhat unfairly), bad wheel support, etc. It just never found it's niche, too serious and boring for casual players, too arcady and goofy for sim players.

5 million sales is great for a sim title, Forza Motorsport 4 sold similarly too, it all went downhill when MS fumbled Xbox one and gutted all the content out of FM5 and padding the game out with excessive grind, which you could only skip by purchasing tokens. MS shot themselves in the foot massively and I don't think the series ever recovered afterwards. Reputation is hard to gain but very easy to lose.

To me the more Sims on the market the better, Forza Motorsport is one of the titans, the Megadeth to GTs Metallica if you will. It's just a shame how it ended

 

[SimTourist]

5 million sales is great for a sim title, Forza Motorsport 4 sold similarly too, it all went downhill when MS fumbled Xbox one and gutted all the content out of FM5 and padding the game out with excessive grind, which you could only skip by purchasing tokens. MS shot themselves in the foot massively and I don't think the series ever recovered afterwards. Reputation is hard to gain but very easy to lose.

To me the more Sims on the market the better, Forza Motorsport is one of the titans, the Megadeth to GTs Metallica if you will. It's just a shame how it ended

Honestly I'm surprised the market can support these many sim titles, there's like a dozen sim games that offer largely the same content and are all in active development, I can't even think of another genre that has these many close competitors fighting it out.

 

[deththrasher]

Honestly I'm surprised the market can support these many sim titles, there's like a dozen sim games that offer largely the same content and are all in active development, I can't even think of another genre that has these many close competitors fighting it out.

Yes it's a niche but full of very enthusiastic and dedicated hobbyist's. Nothing excites me more than a new racing SIM being released, I do think it's a shame most don't really innovate they much (Sophy is an amazing innovation for example) but I'm a sucker for sims

 

[sirjim73]

It's a shame because the actual driving is the best its ever been. I blame the players who didn't buy the game.

All sorts of reasons why players didnt buy the game though, none of which the players fault:
1. Decline in Xbox console sales between FM7 and FM23.
1. Xbox themselves no longer trying to sell games, 100% focus on renting games via Gamepass subscriptions.
2. Game rushed out and wasn't anywhere near ready at release, PC version had a significant memory leak, all sorts of significant bugs on console version (not a game specific issue though, common to modern era games)
3. The decision to require parts unlocking on SP and MP (SP at least made some sense, MP not at all [and i never play MP but it was blindingly obvious to everyone that was a stupid idea]. By the time they added the alternative to unlocks, MP was already dead.
4. Too long between games (lots of MP leagues needed that much more convincing to come back as a result and soon left again because of stuff like the parts unlock issue).
4. Screwing over the Single Player by gutting the career and feeding it back in chunks copying the FH formula slavishly and completely misunderstanding the players who weren't seeking FOMO23.
5. The last year they learnt their lesson somewhat bringing back the content and things seemed to be picking up and those of us in the private testing could see the effort the new devs were making. But there were still missteps (which I thought were directed from "up above") - the FOMO time requirement was upped again (16 custom races became 18, tours became longer). I had given up by then personally as it became a case of having no time left to play anything else.

And so on and so on...

 

[Nacho Libre]

I stated this before, but members of the jury, I present you exhibit #1:



Did we ever got close to those "in-game engine" graphics? Did we got that garage, those animated characters and props? Or those racing IE Apollo's?

Exhibit #2:



This is practically a CGI movie, because I doubt even a RTX 5090 card could pull this off today, and it was supposed to be a console-first game! It also got delayed one more year at that point.

Lastly, exhibit #3:



And here we can see the visual downgrade from what was promised, and together with the points raised by @sirjim73, it's no wonder the launch was underwhelming. So, the game developers had to go into fix mode ever since, instead of looking forward into growing the game.

But, let's give them some credit too. In the end, they were able to finish Fujimi Kaido, correct some of the early design decisions, and improve the game overall, which as of now is very good, just not what could've been.

 

[egl92]

The arrival of Fujimi Kaido and the 20th anniversary update it could have been a turning point.

Yet, instead of trying to turn things around, drawing on nostalgia (something Gran Turismo does so well), getting rid of FOMO, Microsoft abandoned it, and players gradually forgot about the game.

Personally, I felt FM7 was a massive step backward compared to FM6.

I was hoping things would improve with FM23, but I was wrong.

I was disappointed at launch, but just as it was improving after several updates and showing some potential, all came to an end.

It’s a shame.

I also find it interesting to see some of the cars that have arrived in FH6 via DLC.
I’m almost certain they were originally ready for Motorsport and then recycled for FH6.
Alfa Group C, Alfa Tipo 33/2, Calsonic Skyline...

 

[Populuxe]

I also find it interesting to see some of the cars that have arrived in FH6 via DLC.
I’m almost certain they were originally ready for Motorsport and then recycled for FH6.
Alfa Group C, Alfa Tipo 33/2, Calsonic Skyline...

This seems very believable. FM’s loss is FH’s gain. I will respectfully disagree about “FM7 was a massive step backward compared to FM6.” Of course this is a YMMV situation, but for me, FM7 was the best of the XB1 games. I was initially reluctant to buy it after feeling let down by 5 and 6, but I got it in the end and enjoyed it thoroughly. I found myself splitting my gaming time pretty evenly between it and FH3, 4, and even 5.

 

[egl92]

This seems very believable. FM’s loss is FH’s gain. I will respectfully disagree about “FM7 was a massive step backward compared to FM6.” Of course this is a YMMV situation, but for me, FM7 was the best of the XB1 games. I was initially reluctant to buy it after feeling let down by 5 and 6, but I got it in the end and enjoyed it thoroughly. I found myself splitting my gaming time pretty evenly between it and FH3, 4, and even 5.

Probably I exaggerated a bit too much regarding FM7 being a massive step backward compared to FM6.

But things like the prize crates, mods, the hundreds of ridiculous driver gears, the inclusion of Forza Edition cars, the homologation system that never convinced me...

At times, it made me feel like it was becoming less Motorsport and more a mobile phone or free to play game.

 

[Populuxe]

Probably I exaggerated a bit too much regarding FM7 being a massive step backward compared to FM6.

But things like the prize crates, mods, the hundreds of ridiculous driver gears, the inclusion of Forza Edition cars, the homologation system that never convinced me...

At times, it made me feel like it was becoming less Motorsport and more a mobile phone or free to play game.

That’s fair, and to PG’s credit, they realized the prize crates were seriously unpopular and got rid of them after a while. Personally, I loved the all the silly drivers gear and the FEs. And there were all the special liveries, too. Like if you watched their livestream to the end, they’d reward you with an exclusive livery for the 1970 Dodge Challenger or whatever. I loved those. It sounds like the game’s execution aligned with my tastes more than yours is all.

 

[whannel]

2-3m sales sounds magnificent, given FH5 has 'only' sold 5m or so on PS5 and it's the best racer going now, apparently.

Be interesting to see how many FH6 does, targeting a market who won't ever buy Xboxes, hope it was worth Turn10s while to be assigned to port flying car games rather than finish their sim.

About a month's worth of work tuning it to remove the floaty feel to be like actual sims, and a few more tracks alongside a bunch of car models ported to give them some weight from FH and it could surely easily sell 2m on PS5 to fund its existence for the rest of us?

What does Asha Shamra's play history say about FM8, is she into it as much as Phil Spencer was?

Does the sound of 2m more Forza sales not sit with her?

 

[Speedster911]

2-3m sales sounds magnificent, given FH5 has 'only' sold 5m or so on PS5 and it's the best racer going now, apparently.

Be interesting to see how many FH6 does, targeting a market who won't ever buy Xboxes, hope it was worth Turn10s while to be assigned to port flying car games rather than finish their sim.

About a month's worth of work tuning it to remove the floaty feel to be like actual sims, and a few more tracks alongside a bunch of car models ported to give them some weight from FH and it could surely easily sell 2m on PS5 to fund its existence for the rest of us?

What does Asha Shamra's play history say about FM8, is she into it as much as Phil Spencer was?

Does the sound of 2m more Forza sales not sit with her?

I hate to admit this but I think they are abandoning FM in favour of FH because it's not only helping them sell more game copies and consoles but ALSO sell more copies on a competing platform! I will never understand MS's wild 'shot in the dark' marketing tactics.

 

[whannel]

Yeah strange choices at Xbox ahead of the biggest game launch ever, FH6 on PS5 should have been cancelled.

If you want to play FH6 and GTA VI ,it HAS to be Xbox should've been the marketing. That and getting FSR 4.1 pushed out by AMD right around now so everyone is talking about how games now run/look better on Xbox before VI came out would've been my priority. Not sure if the new FSR can bring us what the FM8 trailer had though?

Maybe GTA VI will be a great driving game too, but the physics already look silly as ever. Not really sure why they're talking about working with racing drivers to develop it?

I expect if The Crew 3 is in Europe, and everyone who left FH create a winner with Clutch (the series?) then FH in its same old form might stop doing so well, could've been the wrong shout?

Some FH/FM crossover might be a good call although I'd only really want free roam in FM8 rather than racing circuits in FH. Hopefully AC Evo does it well for console players although I think small/tight realistic roads and cars so powerful might be a handful, compared to wide circuits we know off by heart.

Whatever good game comes with a realistic easy to use track designer would take it for me and I expect the masses. Maybe I'd get into PlayStation too if Gran Turismo does it first.

 

[Speedster911]

Yeah strange choices at Xbox ahead of the biggest game launch ever, FH6 on PS5 should have been cancelled.

If you want to play FH6 and GTA VI ,it HAS to be Xbox should've been the marketing. That and getting FSR 4.1 pushed out by AMD right around now so everyone is talking about how games now run/look better on Xbox before VI came out would've been my priority. Not sure if the new FSR can bring us what the FM8 trailer had though?

Maybe GTA VI will be a great driving game too, but the physics already look silly as ever. Not really sure why they're talking about working with racing drivers to develop it?

I expect if The Crew 3 is in Europe, and everyone who left FH create a winner with Clutch (the series?) then FH in its same old form might stop doing so well, could've been the wrong shout?

Some FH/FM crossover might be a good call although I'd only really want free roam in FM8 rather than racing circuits in FH. Hopefully AC Evo does it well for console players although I think small/tight realistic roads and cars so powerful might be a handful, compared to wide circuits we know off by heart.

Whatever good game comes with a realistic easy to use track designer would take it for me and I expect the masses. Maybe I'd get into PlayStation too if Gran Turismo does it first.

Would have been amazing if he had a few point-to-point circuits in Forza like we had in the very first NFS game back in the mid-90s or like we did in PCARS 2, e.g. All big budget studios simply do not listen to their target base - but always like to pretend that they do!