Friends don't let friends modify Cars

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Der Alta

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DerAlta
This could have gone in the GT4 forum, the Opinions forum, or the Automobile forum. I thought it best here.

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Columns/articleId=105024

Today, it's difficult to make cars better and extremely easy to make them worse. Or dangerous.

As a journalist driving modified cars, I've been sprayed with gasoline, boiling coolant, super-heated transmission fluid and nitrous oxide. (The latter was more entertaining than the former.) Several have burst into flames. Throttles have stuck wide open, brake calipers snapped clean off, suspensions ripped from their mounts and seatbelt mounting hardware has dropped into my lap. All this is on top of the expected thrown connecting rod, blown head gasket, exploded clutch, disintegrated turbocharger and broken timing belt.

The vast majority of these vehicles were built by professionals. Many were from big-name tuners. Most performed as if they were constructed in a shop class at a high school with a lax drug policy. Once, after a suspension component fell off a car from a big-name tuner, the car actually handled better.

For every modified and tuner car that performed better than stock, I've driven numerous examples that were slower. If they were quicker, it was often in an area that can't be used on the street. What's the use of gaining 0.2 second in the quarter-mile if the car is slower 0-60 mph? And costs $10,000 more?

Long ago — when your grandparents were kids and the president was Dwight Eisenhower — it was easy to improve cars. Back then, carmakers designed vehicles largely for production convenience. It's not difficult to improve the handling of a car that had one steering idler arm a little longer than a man's shoe and the other more than the length of his arm: Stiffen the suspension to the point that it doesn't move. Also, in the olden days, cars were so simple virtually anybody could work on them. Replacing the stock two-barrel carburetor (ask your grandfather) with a four-barrel reaped easy power: There were no sensors or computers to confuse, as often happens if you tinker with today's engines.

The Old Ones wonder why today's kids want to "improve" cars. This is partially because something like an '05 Mustang V6 — does the term "secretary's car" come to mind? — has more horsepower and is quicker than an '84 Corvette. Put both on the same tires and the '05 V6 would give the '84 Vette all it could handle on a road racing circuit.

I'm guilty of modifying cars. Mea culpa. In an effort to improve a very sweet handling sport sedan, I added the biggest antiroll bars and stiffest shocks I could find. The result sucked. One doesn't have to reinstall too many stock antiroll bars and redeal with a strut compressor to earn a bad attitude about modifying cars.

Recently, I autocrossed a pair of Subaru WRXs. One was a dead-stock WRX. The other, a tricked-out STi lowered with stiffer springs, shocks and bars and an exhaust kit and air filter. The STi is supposed to have an advantage of some 70 horsepower. Maybe the exhaust and filter moved the power up in the rev band where it couldn't be used. The lowered, stiffened STi regularly bottomed against its bump stops. When a car hits its bump stops, the spring rate goes to infinity and tire grip drops to near zero. This caused the STi to leap into the worst understeer I've experienced with inflated front tires. Meanwhile, in the unmodified WRX, I could be hard in the throttle at the same point. The result: The dead-stock WRX was at least as quick as the STi and far easier to drive. Easy to make worse, harder to make better.

Don't get me started on brake "upgrades." On one hand I can count the brake modifications that out-performed stock. Auto manufacturers spend millions of dollars on brake design, while aftermarket brake manufacturers often allow their customers to participate in the development process. Gulp.

Fitting larger-diameter wheels is another excellent opportunity to reduce performance. Wagon-wheel-sized wheels are all about bling and little about blast. Most larger-diameter wheels are notably heavier than what they're replacing: Aluminum is heavier than the air and rubber. This additional mass requires more horsepower to accelerate, more braking power to stop and more shock valving to control. Translation: Bigger equals slower. Also, lower-profile tires tend to be more difficult to drive at the limit. Most drivers will be quicker and in better control on 17s than on 19s.

On the street, it's almost impossible to accurately assess whether a modification has aided performance. People often judge handling by how the car rides and acceleration by noise: If it's rough and loud, it's got to handle better and be quicker, they think. This is the "Bactine Theory": If the medicine hurts, it must be working. The Placebo Effect also comes into play: If you've just spent a couple of grand to improve something, you will believe it's working.

The only modification that consistently produces positive results are tires. A change from original-equipment rubber to expensive gumballs will reap guaranteed thrills. If you like your car but want more from it, step up to the best ultrahigh-performance tire.

My best advice is this: If you don't like your car and want to make it better, buy something else.


'nuff said

AO
 
I agree at least 85% to 90% with what this guys says! It's going to draw a lot of fire from the Import Fanboys, I'm sure, but it's very very true - particularly in the case of trying to fool OBD-II based engines without replacing the entire engine management system.

Anybody seen the in-car video of the Viper that gets shunted off the end of the straight and flips over the tire wall? Caused by failure of an aftermarket brake 'upgrade' system... at redline in 4th gear. Not exactly the time to want to feel a dead brake pedal when you're being shoved along by 500 horsepower.

I've also driven evil-handling lowered/huge-rimmed cars that were too twitchy to reasonably drive and tramlined on the rain grooves in a concrete highway.

Modifications are best done subtly and carefully, unless you're a professional automotive engineer.
 
f3hthinontheground.jpg


And that's just from the last 10 days of spotting on http://www.barryboys.co.uk/ (
SEVERE language warning)
 
I totally agree with the article. thanks DA. you wouldn't believe how man kids here are consumed by the "placebo effect."

and famine, i knew someone was gonna post some rice pics. lol. here's one for you...i actually know this kid too (and he is a total moron in all aspects of anything).

 
This writer is talking about mechanical modifications... especially those in the interest of 'improving' performance. Like this guy:

a banned user
yeah.....Just opened my UPS delivery to get my Denzo iridium plugs to go with my Nology Hot wires. Yes yes. It took a while.
This is a guy who spent $50 on spark plugs and $100 on wires.
a banned user
Good for them They dont have MY car OR MY SET UP, so what they do means nothing to me. STOP THE ASSUMPTIONS! YOU KNOW NOTHING OF MY CAR!

This ishue has been argued and argued over the Protege forums like CRAZY.

Ill find out for myself tomorow (and I couldnt care less how much copers cost, I got My Plugs for 50 bucks all 4 and they retail at 30$ a peice) GOOD deal worth the hands on verification.

Ill let you know the Hotwires were impressive. More then expected
Anybody who thinks they got a noticeable power difference out of a set of Nology Hotwires is talking through their hat. They make no difference in power, except on a lot of cars where the wildly unshielded RF interferes with the ECU and makes the car run like crap if at all. They are a device for parting fools like this from their money.

Most of those barries/ricers/cornies have no intention of improving performance. I have to admit I feel a migraine coming on after looking at those, though.
 
Duke
This writer is talking about mechanical modifications... especially those in the interest of 'improving' performance. Like this guy:


This is a guy who spent $50 on spark plugs and $100 on wires.

Anybody who thinks they got a noticeable power difference out of a set of Nology Hotwires is talking through their hat. They make no difference in power, except on a lot of cars where the wildly unshielded RF interferes with the ECU and makes the car run like crap if at all. They are a device for parting fools like this from their money.

Most of those barries/ricers/cornies have no intention of improving performance. I have to admit I feel a migraine coming on after looking at those, though.

well, the guy i posted does. he says that his car is "hot" because of the asthetic "mods" that he put on and how much they cost, etc...thus proving the placebo effect. that picture is from a while back though, so i don't doubt he's wasted far more on mechanical gizmos by now.
 
Interesting points, certainly. Lots of crap inserted between those points, but at least the guy has actually driven a car before, unlike some so called automotive journalists. Sounds like a guy who doesn't like working on cars though, so he'd rather get stuck with what he has rather than fiddle with it. People have been modifiying cars since what, the 1920s? They'd cut up Model T's, turn them into T-Buckets... then you had the 32-34 Fords Deuce coupes, which are still being modded today. Will having an article like that change a thing? Nope.

I've modified a lot of cars in my short driving career. Some had aesthetical mods, others were completely rebuilt from pretty much the ground up. There's nothing more fun than twisting the key after a complete engine overhaul, hearing it come to life, then thinking to yourself, hey, I made that happen. Sure, the thing won't be as comfortable on the streets, but that's a compromise I'm willing to make. Why? Because I love working on cars. And there's nothing more satisfying than taking my car, I worked on myself, to the track, without feeling the need to trailer it there because it's a little stiff, and then lap all afternoon, or run 11s on the quarter mile. And hey, if I break something, I'll tow it back home, and work on it again, making sure what broke won't break again, I don't care, I love working on cars.


That whole all show-no go thing is nothing new, either. I'll take a lot of crap from a lot of you for what comes up next, but I don't care, that's how I see it. Some will say I'm retarded, stupid even, but think of it for a minute.

p159791_image_large.jpg

That's a '65 Chevy II. More here if you want to. That thing looks pretty nice, right? It's the perfect vehicle for what I want to show. Taken from the article:

While the engine hasn’t been on the dyno and the car hasn’t been down the track, it sounds very healthy.
Jerry has won many awards with his Chevy but says he couldn’t have built the car without the help of his dad and Woodie Nible. With these friends and his long hours of work, Jerry has built a car that definitely turns heads on the boulevard.

This guy has built what would be a pretty serious racecar, but he tows it to shows instead. Kinda like, hmmm, this. Same basic idea; spend a lot of money to make it look fast, race oriented even, then tow it to a bunch of shows and collect the cash and trophies. Different execution, though, and there's no deniying there that the red Chevy looks way better.

I like working on cars, and there's nothing that will stop me from doing so. Certainly not some journalist I've never heard of before, that's for sure.
 
Both physically and mechanically better than 95% of modifications done to cars today degrade or detract from the car's original configuration.

It pains me to see what some of the guys at S2ki.com do to their S2000s. Personally there is nothing outside of OEM parts that I would stick on my (future) S2000. It is incredible.
 
It's sad to see how cars are made today. All the electronic wizardry in cars is making modding cars more and more difficult, especially for more casual tuners. I have a feeling I'm not going to be doing much tuning in my automotive future (especially considering the insurance hardships). A great past time is becoming more difficult and more aggrivating.
 
Ev0
It's sad to see how cars are made today. All the electronic wizardry in cars is making modding cars more and more difficult, especially for more casual tuners. I have a feeling I'm not going to be doing much tuning in my automotive future (especially considering the insurance hardships). A great past time is becoming more difficult and more aggrivating.

Good! Because most people aren't good at it anyway and I'm sick of looking at their pathetic attempts.
 
I have to say I find it hilarious to see our very own Famine swearing like a madman and ripping new ones to a bunch of newbies, on that BarryBoys forum. Dr. Jekill and Mr. Hyde :lol:
 
PunkRock
I have to say I find it hilarious to see our very own Famine swearing like a madman and ripping new ones to a bunch of newbies, on that BarryBoys forum. Dr. Jekill and Mr. Hyde :lol:
More like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Jekyll. That's pretty much what he does here, minus the swearing part.

And modifying cars can be a good thing. But given the quantum leap in automotive engineering in the last 20 years, it is increasingly difficult to do so productively. In the old days all you had to do was physically fit the engine and transmission into the car, connect power to the coil and starter, and you were good to go. These days the 'stock' bar has been raised very far, but at the cost of the 'modified' bar being not so far above it.
 
What about cars that respond very well to modifications, like an Evo for instance? It may be one of the few cars out there that can be made better by simple mods, even as great a car as the Evo is stock.
 
fangorn_forest
What about cars that respond very well to modifications, like an Evo for instance? It may be one of the few cars out there that can be made better by simple mods, even as great a car as the Evo is stock.

There are also such things as pointless mods, you know. IE the iridium sprak plugs, wires, all the other electronic BS, Xenon/HID headlights etc. Those don't make your car any faster. Pointless mods is like a polight way for calling someone "mechanically inept".
 
I don't think I would ever mod a car, unless I develope a mechanical background in the future. Even so I wouldn't drive it every day. The one thing about modded cars it that it is easy to drop a few grand on parts that you know will help you develop more power or handle better ect. but hard for a person on a limited budget to throw down for a roll cage, fire extinguisher or well sorted racing seats, especially when they are not intending to race it in an organization that requires such saftey features. We can always blame the fast and the furious.
 
I could see myself turning a car into a bit of a sleeper. But that would only be for the extra little bit of pep. I'd be more likely to get a slighty more luxurious car, and then give it a little go to get it out of the intersection. I find that unless you race them, there's no real point to giving a car obscene amounts of horepower or plastic, and that it's really a waste of money except if your doing it for a hobby. But throwing on just a turbo, or just an intercooler etc., so give it a couple more horses is fine with me, but don't go all hardcore just because you can. You may end up paying through the nose once your connecting rod snaps and goes through the block, after all.
 
When I think of myself ever modifying cars, I think more along the lines of putting a second engine in the back end of an FF car. Then having the accellerator rev both engines the same. It would be both FF and RR. Or a twin engine 4WD. THAT is the kind of modifications I think are cool (:
 
LoudMusic
When I think of myself ever modifying cars, I think more along the lines of putting a second engine in the back end of an FF car. Then having the accellerator rev both engines the same. It would be both FF and RR. Or a twin engine 4WD. THAT is the kind of modifications I think are cool (:
That's been done with CRXs, Tiburons, and (!) late-'90s Eldorado STSs. Imagine TWO Northstar V8s rumbling along in there... or put on in drive, one in reverse, and imagine the burnouts!
:eek:
 
I just hopped over to S2ki.com for a sec and was quickly reminded of an even bigger irritation than people who poorly modify their cars.

People who make REALLY ****TY VIDEOS of their cars.

Come on guys, if you're going to street race, A) DO NOT video tape it B) If you're compelled to break the law and capture yourself on tape DO NOT post it on the internet C) If you go so far as to break the law, video tape it, and post it on the internet, DO NOT say how cool it is when in fact the camera man was shaking all around, with a great view of the passenger's dash, seat, door, a-pillar, and blurry lights from buildings going by IN THE DARK.

If you're going to make videos or take pictures of your car, at least make them good. Stop wasting my time and my bandwidth with your in ability to produce quality media. I guess it's two fold. You can't make a decent car - you can't show it off in a respectable way. Perhaps I am just naive to think someone might have better judgement.
 
And The Citroen 2CV Sahara.

Wouldn't you need two clutches for a twin engined car?
 
menglan
And The Citroen 2CV Sahara.

Wouldn't you need two clutches for a twin engined car?

That would seem to make sense, assuming they were not turning the same drive shaft. But even a pair of clutch assemblies could be linked up. Or you could just run with a high performance automatic tranny.
 
Duke
More like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Jekyll. That's pretty much what he does here, minus the swearing part.

I have POWER over there too :D

That site is one of the reasons I'm so sane and normal and cheery in every day life.
 
Famine
I have POWER over there too :D

That site is one of the reasons I'm so sane and normal and cheery in every day life.

Until you go and create some mutli-assed monkey.
 
PunkRock
I have to say I find it hilarious to see our very own Famine swearing like a madman and ripping new ones to a bunch of newbies, on that BarryBoys forum. Dr. Jekill and Mr. Hyde :lol:

He's noticeably more entertaining. :D
 
I got one thing to say, if this guy gets sprayed with so much crap and stuff falling off from the cars he tunes, would'nt this an autobiographical article?

Everything after first paragraph makes perfect sense though.
 
Interesting read. I would say that dropping money on any old mod is pretty stupid, but there are some mods that are beneficial. A properly tuned suspension will beat a stock one every time, but don't think you can take the little lady for a sunday drive in your car that is set up for the track. The fact is that 99% of cars are set up to be daily drivers from the factory, and thus they sacrifice performance for comfort. I am perfectly happy with my bone stock STi, but in 2 or 3 years when I can afford to, I will retire her from daily service and convert her into a trailer queen track car. No A/C, no power steering, no spare tire, racing seats, 5 point harness, roll cage...maybe a suspension and turbo upgrade - who knows. I will agree that the best upgrade you can give your car are some DOT legal R compounds - I'm just waiting for spring to arrive in the frozen tundra so I can slap 'em on.
 
One of the worst TV shows on cable TV is Tuner Transformations. I see them doing all sorts of really stupid mods. Like putting 13 inch front rotors on a mid-late '90s Honda Civic with 17" wheels saying this will improve the handling a stopping power of the car. Yeah, sure it will. Adding a solid steel rotor that size with a 17" wheel would destroy the handling of a car like that.

The whole idea of replacing a properly running part on your car is to reduce the weight. There ain't much difference between stock parts and racing parts, other then price, and the overall weight. They're often made from stronger metals because they're made smaller, thinner or lighter and a stronger metal is therefore needed. Reducing weight, especially in a part that moves, rotates or spins, will reduce mass and more of the power the engine is producing will be used at the tire. Changing a lot of parts will reduce a lot of weight from the car, which will make it accelerate and stop quicker. That's the whole idea of making a race car.

When somebody adds a 13" rotor to a Civic, they're going completely ass-backwards for the reason of replacing the original brake rotors in the first place. True, the car will stop maybe 10 feet sooner at say from a 100MPH stop. But, how often will a street car need to do that? Does that justify the destruction of handling, which is a constant thing? No.

Right now the show is on, and there swithing turbos on a car. The turbo is a lot bigger and a lot heavier. But, it'll give us 20 more HP at the top end. So? How often do we get to the TOP END? Almost never. How much more strain will that heavier turbo add to the engine? I bet more then what that 20 extra HP will give us!
 
Ah that's why I'm glad I own a mini-truck, a pointless mod to us is performance on the stock engine (unless you go nuts and put a V8 in). Like me, I have an intake and a Flowmaster 70 Series muffler not because I thought they would give me more power, which they do I might add, but because the intake gave me about 20 miles outta a tank of gas and the muffler just sounded kinda neat.

I modified my suspension because I wanted my truck to be low, not because I thought it would handle better. Come on it's an SUV it wouldn't handle good if God himself did the suspension work.

For me it's about looks, not speed. If I wanted speed I would have bought a Camaro or something. No I'm not a idiot (or ricer like so many people call me) because I focus on show rather then go. You are only an idiot if you say you are all about speed when you have nothing of the sort installed.

Now I guess I'll sit back and wait for some n00b to give me an idiotic comment about lowered trucks...:lol:
 
BlazinXtreme
Now I guess I'll sit back and wait for some n00b to give me an idiotic comment about lowered trucks...:lol:

Honestly I think raised trucks can be worst that real bad rice. Not only do they look wierd, they obstruct my view when I'm pullen out and are more likely to tip over. How often do they need another 8 inches of suspension travel? Almost never. Lowered trucks can be done real well, I saw a nice ford f100 a while back.
 

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