Front Air Extensions?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Corpsey
  • 29 comments
  • 1,765 views
Corpsey

Corpsey

Messages
525
Messages
IGTRBYASYUYA
On some premium cars you can add the extensions but they don't give you a front aerodynamic variable you can change in the car tuning.. and I've tested it and they don't seem to do anything.. if they did do something, it would be nice to have it come up in tuning showing that some variable is applied.. but it doesn't even affect PP so???

Why even put them on? So your car looks like it has more ability than it really does? :\ I would love to see these not only for more cars but actually show that they do something.. at LEAST affect PP if they do something.

Summary: Aero Extensions should actually produce groundeffects and affect the cars performance. They should also be available for more models.
Notes: Not talking about race modded and if you mention it you've missed the point.
 
You’re positive? I thought the front aero settings are available once a front bumper kit / front extensions are installed. If you’re right, and it’s for aesthetic purposes only, then I agree – that is pretty lame. I'm gonna have to double check it later. Maybe it's specific models only? That's even more concerning.
 
Nope, they do absolutely nothing. strictly aesthetic.

which is a mistake on PD's part because front downforce is a very important factor in handling and is one of the most basic and common things you'd do to a track car
 
Iirc they extensions actually add 5 more units of adjustability to the front aero settings. but, I'm not 100%. May have been a dream.
 
I took the areo extensions off of my Evo I was using for the Laguna TT & it was much harder to keep on track. IMO they do help.
 
Very unfortunate when one takes into account that some high end cars like the McMerc SLR and Lambo LP560-4 were not given any front downforce at all.

The McMerc was given 15-20 rear downforce if I remember right so it understeers like a pig!

The Lambo behaves like a super twitchy old-fashioned race car as it was given very little rear downforce to boot. (5 points?)

(The R8 V10 weirdly has something like 10/20 (F/R downforce) though. The same as the Viper ACR!!)

Apart from that, not all premiums have the 'extension' option (front canards).
 
I'm not sure a minor addition like that would provide any noticeable difference in performance, much the same way a 5 hp increase isn't likely to be felt.
 
McClarenDesign
I'm not sure a minor addition like that would provide any noticeable difference in performance, much the same way a 5 hp increase isn't likely to be felt.
Click to expand...

Good point especially when you consider the sort of cars you can put these little front winglets on are about 1.5 tonnes.
 
Last edited:
McClarenDesign
I'm not sure a minor addition like that would provide any noticeable difference in performance, much the same way a 5 hp increase isn't likely to be felt.
Click to expand...

A front splitter has immense aerodynamic impact.

GT strays very much from simulation because of the fact that no aero parts except rear wings produce downforce. This is not only inaccurate in terms of splitter, but it makes realistic aerodynamic optimization impossible as front and rear downforce needs to be balanced to actually work.

http://www.compositesworld.com/articles/composite-wing-key-to-high-speed-stability
 
I'm actually receding.
 
Exorcet
A front splitter has immense aerodynamic impact.

GT strays very much from simulation because of the fact that no aero parts except rear wings produce downforce. This is not only inaccurate in terms of splitter, but it makes realistic aerodynamic optimization impossible as front and rear downforce needs to be balanced to actually work.

http://www.compositesworld.com/articles/composite-wing-key-to-high-speed-stability
Click to expand...

This is about the Front Extension canards, not the splitter, which can be added separately or not. Of course a splitter will have an enormous effect, as its surface area is exponentially greater than that of the canards without the splitter.

With such a small surface area, they likely won't make much of a difference without a splitter.
 
McClarenDesign
This is about the Front Extension canards, not the splitter, which can be added separately or not. Of course a splitter will have an enormous effect, as its surface area is exponentially greater than that of the canards without the splitter.

With such a small surface area, they likely won't make much of a difference without a splitter.
Click to expand...

The curvature of canards will give them a much higher cl than a flat surface of equal area. They can also be used to produce vortices which can improve aerodynamics indirectly by affecting laminar to turbulent transition and flow separation.

Canards are also on the front of the car (obviously) where dynamic pressure is maximum.
 
Properly shaped canards provide massive aerodynamic benefits. That's why (for example) JGTC regulations changed every year to change what teams were allowed to do with them.
 
Aren't they more for drag reduction than downforce production?
 
McClarenDesign
Aren't they more for drag reduction than downforce production?
Click to expand...

If so, Grand-Am teams probably wouldn't use them on DPs to increase downforce on tight tracks, and remove them on the faster ones.

Not a street car's front end shape but the principle should be the same.
 
McClarenDesign
Aren't they more for drag reduction than downforce production?
Click to expand...

They can do both, but since their low aspect ratio produces a lot of vorticity, they can only reduce drag with careful and specific application.

Also remember that increasing your front downforce allows you to increase your rear downforce, so gains made by the canards may actually be doubled depending on the situation.
 
Yeah, I've never had a car with a front aero part with adjustable downforce. But you wouldn't wanna max out the downforce anyway because they create drag. If you max the downforce on an X2010 it goes slower because of the extra drag. You can corner faster but you lose quite a bit of speed (couldn't get my X2010 over 240 with maxed aero; with it set to default I could get 275 out of it without slipstreaming). I just do it sometimes 'coz I like the way it looks.
 
^you forgot that the downforce also causes the x2010 and 2011 to literally drag its underbelly.
 
PureHeavyMetal
Yeah, I've never had a car with a front aero part with adjustable downforce. But you wouldn't wanna max out the downforce anyway because they create drag. If you max the downforce on an X2010 it goes slower because of the extra drag. You can corner faster but you lose quite a bit of speed (couldn't get my X2010 over 240 with maxed aero; with it set to default I could get 275 out of it without slipstreaming). I just do it sometimes 'coz I like the way it looks.
Click to expand...

As with every adjustable attribute it depends on the track, I run full downforce in an X2010 on Tsukuba and it's much faster than the stock downforce level because of the high speed corners and short straights. I usually lower the gearing so that I can power through the drag up to about 250 mph on some tracks.
 
Last edited:
PureHeavyMetal
Yeah, I've never had a car with a front aero part with adjustable downforce. But you wouldn't wanna max out the downforce anyway because they create drag.
Click to expand...
GT5's aerodynamic engine is poor enough (though not in quite the same way as GT4's was) that it causes far less of an effect than to make worrying about it necessary. Indeed, with the X1 being primarily a ground-effects car, maxing downforce probably shouldn't even have that much of an effect on top speed; but for a lot of cars the effect is rather negligible in comparison to the advantages rather than the more direct tradeoff that happens in real life (with regular aerodynamic devices).
 
Peasantslayer
As with every adjustable attribute it depends on the track, I run full downforce in an X2010 on Tsukuba and it's much faster than the stock downforce level.
Click to expand...

Well, of course; I had mine with the stock downforce level because I did the Indy 500 in A-Spec mode this morning and since the track isn't technical at all less downforce allowed me to reach higher speeds. I don't really like to use that blisteringly fast car on technical tracks, I hit the barrier all the time :scared:
 
the thing to remember is the X1 and x2011 are "sucker" cars. They use fans to suck the car down on to the ground. The downforce adjustment affects the fans too so if the adjustment scale allowed you could literally suction cup the car on to the surface of the track. Back on topic I have noticed a small increase in front end stability with the extensions vs. without.
 
Toronado
GT5's aerodynamic engine is poor enough (though not in quite the same way as GT4's was) that it causes far less of an effect than to make worrying about it necessary. Indeed, with the X1 being primarily a ground-effects car, maxing downforce probably shouldn't even have that much of an effect on top speed; but for a lot of cars the effect is rather negligible in comparison to the advantages rather than the more direct tradeoff that happens in real life (with regular aerodynamic devices).
Click to expand...


I completely agree; a lot of my cars handle better with the aero than without it. The X2010 was the first car that I actually noticed exhibiting drag with maxed aero. I just meant that for extremely high speed tracks you don't wanna max it out if your goal is maximum speed. I hit 300 MPH during the Indy 500 in A-Spec today and my best lap time was 32.5 seconds. I'm sure it would've been slower with it maxed out though.
 
fbccars924
the thing to remember is the X1 and x2011 are "sucker" cars. They use fans to suck the car down on to the ground. The downforce adjustment affects the fans too so if the adjustment scale allowed you could literally suction cup the car on to the surface of the track. Back on topic I have noticed a small increase in front end stability with the extensions vs. without.
Click to expand...

Do we know this to be a fact?

Honest question... I never do anything with these cars so I had assumed the fan-produced downforce itself in the 2J, X2010 and X2011 was a constant and your adjustments simply represented changing the angle/elements of the standard aero bits on the cars.

This would technically alter the properties of the air that the fans are working with somewhat I suppose, but I wouldn't suppose GT5 would model it to that extent.
 
given that the down force applied by the wings and splitters wouldnt be enough on their own to pull the car to the point of dragging at speeds under 200mph given estimated surface area one can only speculate that it does affect the fan speed.
 
Test it. Reverse the fan so that it blows. If you hit a wall, it was working properly.
 
I dont think the settings allow for a reversal.
 
My friend placed them on his stock R35, said the difference was unbelievable and reduced his lap time of Tsukuba by around 1.9 something seconds. Take from that what you will. No one can say one way or another except the people who placed them in the game
 
Morgoth_666
Do we know this to be a fact?

Honest question... I never do anything with these cars so I had assumed the fan-produced downforce itself in the 2J, X2010 and X2011 was a constant and your adjustments simply represented changing the angle/elements of the standard aero bits on the cars.

This would technically alter the properties of the air that the fans are working with somewhat I suppose, but I wouldn't suppose GT5 would model it to that extent.
Click to expand...

There is no need to reduce fan suction in GT5 (nor is there an option, you only get front and rear), so I wager that the X1 adjustments are only the wings.

fbccars924
given that the down force applied by the wings and splitters wouldnt be enough on their own to pull the car to the point of dragging at speeds under 200mph given estimated surface area one can only speculate that it does affect the fan speed.
Click to expand...

Wings would certainly create enough drag to lower the speed below 200 mph. Raising the fan to create infinite downforce or setting it off would not change the top speed at all. They could definitely cause the car to bottom out too. Set the suspension low and soft enough and you'll bottom out anything at any speed.

The difference in top speed seen in the X1 across downforce settings is as grossly inaccurate (in that it is well understated) as it is in every other cars, afterall they probably all use the same physics. Going full downforce should cost you 50 mph on LMP's, and even more for the X1 since it apparently allows as much wing deflection as F1 cars.


crcn11
My friend placed them on his stock R35, said the difference was unbelievable and reduced his lap time of Tsukuba by around 1.9 something seconds. Take from that what you will. No one can say one way or another except the people who placed them in the game
Click to expand...

Some detailed testing would be nice as opposed to vague anecdotes. But I think the fact that they don't change the PP is pretty much proof enough that they do nothing.
 
Back