Fuel for the fire

I recieved this e-mail today from a fellow racer,... he's a ministor and he sends me these things cause he knows my beliefs. He cares, thats all,.. but it's crap like what you'll read below that really chaps my ass :irked:

What's your opinions on the summary below?

[color=dark blue]After hearing that the state of Florida changed its opinion and let a Muslim woman have her picture on her driver's license with her face covered, this is an editorial written by an American citizen, published in a Tampa newspaper. He did quite a job; didn't he? Read on, please!

IMMIGRANTS, NOT AMERICANS, MUST ADAPT. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Sept. 11, we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Americans. However, the dust from the attacks had barely settled when the "politically correct" crowd began complaining about the possibility that our patriotism was offending others.

I am not against immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life by coming to America. Our population is almost entirely made up of descendants of immigrants. However, there are a few things that those who have recently come to our country, and apparently some born here, need to understand. This idea of America being a multicultural community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. As Americans, we have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle. This culture has been developed over centuries of struggles, trials, and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom.

We speak ENGLISH, not Spanish, Portuguese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society, learn the language!

"In God We Trust " is our national motto. This is not some Christian, right wing, political slogan. We adopted this motto because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.

If Stars and Stripes offend you, or you don't like Uncle Sam, then you should seriously consider a move to another part of this planet. We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and we really don't care how you did things where you came from. This is OUR COUNTRY, our land, and our lifestyle. Our First Amendment gives every! citizen the right to express his opinion and we will allow you every opportunity to do so. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about our flag, our pledge, our national motto, or our way of life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great American freedom, THE RIGHT TO LEAVE.

If you agree -- pass this along; if you don't agree -- delete it!

AMEN


If we all keep passing this to our friends it will also get back to the complainers, and help inspire others to preserve our society as we know it, lets all try,[/color]


well......... ?

The "in god we trust" paragraph is the most disturbing IMO. He contradicts himself by stating that the country was founded by christians,... yet he forgets that it was the same christians who expressed the need for seperation of church and state,... right?
 
It gets a little preechy in there for a bit, but I don't have a BIG problem with what is said.

I don't think florida should allow someone to cover their face on their driver's license. If you don't like it, leave.... or don't drive.

I don't see a reason that America should cater to every community. We should be non-denominational (because that's really what this country was founded on), but we shouldn't have to worry about what might be offensive to some cultures. Part of the reason that America is great is tolerance of other cultures... which means, you don't get offended when people who don't understand your culture do something that goes against the way you were raised.
 
I agree with the drivers license photo also,... now that they let one person do it, the system will get exploited to hell and back.

Imagine the fake ID possibilities if we let this get out of hand. Not that having a fake picture ID is horredously bad,.. it's just that it cant lead to anything good,.. ya know.
 
Well, the FLDL situation is kind of a Catch-22:

On one hand, she's not likely to be seen in public without a headcovering. After all, we couldn't find Elizabeth Smart a mere 15 miles away from her home, because she was wearing a strange head covering. So a picture without the covering is likely to be, well, misleading.

The other side of the token is, well, I wasn't allowed to wear a hat nor any other head covering while having my picture taken. Neither is anyone else who wants a driver's license. Even the US Air Force was able to force Jews to remove thier yarmulkas as necessary, according to a Supreme Court ruling in 1986, so it's not as if freedom of religion triumphs over all government decisions.

However, it's not a religious freedom that has me bothered by the whole mess, it's the fact that she had a rap sheet longer than most other "honest, hard-working, citizens". Certainly, she's got something more than pride to hide. I say, if driving a man-made item means that much to you, than you ought to obey man-made law for just a moment.
 
The face-covering for ID purposes is bullpuckey. There's no way that should stand, since her identity is concealed by that covering. Although you're right that she will most often be seen that way, the law has the right to require her to remove the face covering for proper identification in cases where she is suspected of criminal activity.

As far as the editorial goes, I agree pretty much, right down to the end of the paragraph about learning English. If you are coming to America that should mean you want to be an American first, and anything else second. We are happy to absorb cultural influences from all over the world, but that doesn't mean we have to make American culture subservient to any strays who happen to wander in.

The whole paragraph about the US being founded as a Christian nation, though, is also totally incorrect. I can go into it again, but instead, I'll direct anyone who is interested to the existing "Pledge of Alligience" thread.
 
I'm not sure I even like the conept of the driver's license... I'll have to think about that... it does seem good.

If we have to have licenses, people shouldn't be able to cover their faces. It defeats the purpose of the picture. If a cop pulls you over, he or she should have ability to ask you to uncover your face too.

I people don't like it, they have the option to not drive.
 
As for the driver's license thing, it's freedom of religion right? I don't agree with it, as it defeats the purpose of the ID in the first place. For the most part, yeah I can agree with what he's saying. Having "In God We Trust" on the walls of our schools doesn't force anyone to believe in God, just as teaching evolution in class' doesn't force anyone to believe that God doesn't exist.

Here's a match.... :)
 
I understand the guy's frustration. But I think he's pretty ignorant. Maybe if he'd provided a definition of what "American" is it would've gone somewhere. When I learned about America's so-called "melting pot" and immigration and the Statue of Liberty and Ellis Island back in school, turn-of-the-century New Your City was portrayed as an urban patchwork of ethnic ghettos. I guess that stuck with me and I see ethnic and cutural diversity as inherently and uniquely American. What would I do without middle eastern and Chinese and Thai restaurants with theirl little Buddha statues and icons of Asian leaders? When people go to San Francisco they all want to go to China Town. The few things that are exclusively American are so limited and if that's what he's so proud of, he's a pathetic loser. All in all I'd call his commentary pretty narrow-minded and ignorant. Maybe he was mad when he wrote it.
 
It may surprise you or might not, but this sort of attitude is moderate compared to most of the Montana's that I've come in contact with. Keep in mind most of us have rifles in our back windows...

It is pretty narrow minded to some extent, but if I got to some other foreign country, especially to live, I would not even think about making them conform to my language or culture, but rather I would take the time to learn their language as well as their customs.
One of the things I enjoyed the most about living in Hawaii was the diversity of foods! Oh man, I could go on for days...about the food. It was O'no.
 
Please don't get me wrong, I'm no John Bircher. I'm just saying that American culture has more to do with values and attitudes than with any particular outward signs of ethnicity, and those values and attitudes are what should be primary over all when a person decides they want to be an American enough to come here.

I too love the varied flavors in this country.

[edit] Agreed with Pako - I wouldn't go to live in a country if I didn't like its culture (duh!). And if I did like its culture enough to live there, you can bet that I would expect to learn the native language. [/edit]
 
Originally posted by Pako
It may surprise you or might not, but this sort of attitude is moderate compared to most of the Montana's that I've come in contact with. Keep in mind most of us have rifles in our back windows...
I've heard about you people. And Idahoans, too. ;)
 
I grew up in the suburbs of Chicago. As soon as I was old enough I moved to the city. I lived in the Chicago version of those ethinic ghettos, and went to an urban university. I was constantly confronted with minorities and gays and homelessness. It informed my opinions, as does everybody's locality.

Then I moved to Arizona and lived in a small mountain town. It doesn't take long for your weary mind to forget others' hardships. Which is exactly what I did. I was a white American in a small town in the wild west. Screw those immigrants.

Now I live in Phoenix, a particularly souless city, where latinos cry about every little thing. At times I long for my small mountain town and my insulated life. It was just as valid as any other life. Only trouble is there's no place to work. I suspect I'll get back to watching the sunrise over the mountains and being glad there's no panhandlers or activists for hundreds of miles around.
 
Originally posted by milefile
I've heard about you people. And Idahoans, too. ;)

:lol: I was actually born in Idaho.. :D Don't remember it though. Moved to Los Vegas when I was 6 months old. Don't really remember much of Vegas either, from there it was Hawaii from 5-16 years of age, then off to Montana where I call home now.
 
I went to Prescott, AZ for the first time this past weekend. It's off of the interstate system so it's remained very small and isolated, and yet pretty cool. A lot of Phoenix millionaires have 20000 sq ft "cabins" up there. But it's still so nice and I want to see more of it. Eventually me, my wife , and son, will move out of this sprawling, polluted hell-hole to someplace more manageable like Prescott. I like to smell trees instead of dumpsters, see stars instead of car-dealer spotlights, and stop for red-lights without fearing for my life. But again... nowhere to work.
 
Originally posted by neon_duke
The face-covering for ID purposes is bullpuckey. There's no way that should stand, since her identity is concealed by that covering.

Exactly - it completely destroys the point of 'photo identification.' It's completely absurd.
 
Originally posted by Red Eye Racer
I"In God We Trust " is our national motto. This is not some Christian, right wing, political slogan. We adopted this motto because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.

I need some fresh air. :rolleyes:

...besides the driver's license thing, which is a more complicated issue, this is all typical flag-waving white Christian male rhetorical bull. :yuck:
 
Here's the deal. That guy is right on about the DL pic. There are so many ways to abuse that one, I won't even try to take it up.
As for the other stuff. Our population is mostly made up of immigrants?
Has he seen a preponderance of American Indians that the rest of us know nothing about? America is almost entirely made up of immagrants. Some willing, some not.
If you are from another country, I believe that it is important to keep your customs and culture alive. However, in the world outside of the home speaking English is polite.
Americans tend to act like utter buffoons when in other countries. That is why we are called "ugly Americans."
Why must we endeavor to find the nearest McDonalds when we travel abroad?
The reason the original settlers came here was indeed for freedom to worship the way they pleased. It was NOT so we could "lord over" our "Amercanism" over the people that came "late to the party".
How can the "greatest Nation" be full up with such santimonius a**holes?
When I hear this kind of stuff I really just want to be Swiss, or Martian for that matter.
I conclude with one of my son's favorite sayings,
"Who cares about the fountain of youth? Could we get a fountain of SMART?":irked:
Or perhaps a fountain of "mutual understanding"?


Here endeth the rant.
 
Originally posted by Gil
"Who cares about the fountain of youth? Could we get a fountain of SMART?"
Hey! That was my first-ever .sig line here at the planet!
👍
 
You know, I haven't been participating much in the Opinions forum in the last several months, because as soon as a thread goes up, about half of the people who post seem to echo my own personal sentiments exactly. And here we go again. :)

So, I think she should uncover for the friendly camera... As someone else said, it defeats the purpose of "photo identification", and it truly does open up the possibility for malicious acts... Lessee, I'm a terrorist coming to the U.S., so I'll conveniently hide my entire face behind a piece of cloth and tell them I need to do it, and they'll believe me, and I'm off!

And of course, the whole right-wing and Christian foundation stuff is just ridiculous. Have any of you wondered how people get those ideas in their minds? :irked:

BTW Gil, regarding the McDonald's comment - You see, in Thailand, they have practically nothing but McDonald's there these days, so... ;)
 
Originally posted by Sage
As someone else said, it defeats the purpose of "photo identification",


Me, you bastard!

You're lucky I'm not in Castaic RIGHT NOW.

And of course, the whole right-wing and Christian foundation stuff is just ridiculous. Have any of you wondered how people get those ideas in their minds? :irked:

No - it's real obvious. The sad thing is that it makes more moderate Christians like Gil and DGB454 look bad.
 
Originally posted by Sage
BTW Gil, regarding the McDonald's comment - You see, in Thailand, they have practically nothing but McDonald's there these days, so... ;)
But you understand the sentiment behind the statement? ;)
It's like we want every place we go to become a little USA just for us when we travel. I mean what's the point of going to Spain, or Barbados, or the Dutch Antilles if we're not going to experience the culture?

BTW, I'd like to thank M5Power for sticking up for us moderate Christians.:D
The whole basic tenet of Christianity is acceptance, love, and compassion. We can't go "shooting our wounded" and still be examples of "Christ-like" behavior.
 
Originally posted by DGB454
Ok, So if I take a group of people and say something derogatory against that group as a whole then it's just calling "a spade a spade" right?

Notice I never asked if you were.
But the statements he was referring to were nothing but a bunch of Christian white guy bullpuckey rhetoric. All people who think that way are Christian white guys. That certainly doesn't mean that all Christian white guys think that way.

Jefferson - the single most important man in American history - was a Deist, by the way, not a Christian.
 
Originally posted by Gil
OMG, I think I just mostly agreed with RER.:eek:
:lol::lol::lol:

:lol: 👍
I hope it's not contagious :P




Originally posted by Gil

BTW, I'd like to thank M5Power for sticking up for us moderate Christians.
The whole basic tenet of Christianity is acceptance, love, and compassion. We can't go "shooting our wounded" and still be examples of "Christ-like" behavior.

I do think you guys have built an excellent foundation of basic morals to work from (golden rule) 👍,... but do you think that statements like the e-mail we're talking about have a positive or negative long-term effect? Are radicals like him and Falwell actually helping in your opinions?
 
I don't like all the religious stuff in the article, because it's wrong. The country was founded on the freedom of religion, not on the freedom to celebrate one type of religion.



As for the American sentiment, I'd like to ask this.


How come it is, that every country on the face of the planet gets to be proud of their country and culture.... except America?
 
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