G25 Clutch Realism

Discussion in 'Sim Racing Hardware' started by McLaren-Saleen, May 28, 2008.

  1. McLaren-Saleen

    McLaren-Saleen

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    44
    I have not seen this question asked yet for the G25 and I am thinking about getting it. Does the clutch work realistically for GT5P? For example, could you actually stall your car when not working the clutch correctly from a stand-still? I doubt it would do this though. Will the shift knob not allow you to change gears without the clutch in? Any answers would be appreciated:)
     
  2. EFFalcon

    EFFalcon

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    80
    don't know what games would support the car stalling in the first place..

    as for the 2nd one, no, you can still get the shifter into the gate with out the clutch, but the car will go into neutral until you use the clutch and re-engage the gear. (atleast this is how it works in Prologue)
     
  3. McLaren-Saleen

    McLaren-Saleen

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    44
    Sounds good, I am hoping to get this wheel for Christmas:sly:
     
  4. PlusP357

    PlusP357

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    107
    You can definitely stall the car out in GTR and (I believe) Live For Speed. I played both over the weekend quite a bit since I dislike this current series of Online Events in GT5. I use the H-shifter a lot in GTR and stall out occasionally. I mainly use paddles in LFS, but since the update to version Y, I found that you have to lift off the throttle now to change gears on the paddles, so I might go back to using the H-shifter again. I'll try it tonight and see if I can stall out.

    On the PC, many sims don't give us enough control over the axis of travel, but we can override a sim's limited settings by using Logitech's Wingman Control Panel.

    The clutch would be much more effective in GT5 if they would give us an option to adjust the axis of travel. At this point, the clutch fully engages way too quickly.
     
  5. kikie

    kikie Premium

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    15,568
    Yes can you stall a car in GT5p. I just tested it. It is not as sophisticated as in GTR, GTL, though.
    Maybe this means that in GT5 you will have to start the engine yourself after stalling the car. At them moment you can start driving again (after stalling) when you push in the clutch again.

    Like said by plusP357, GTR, and GT Legends simulates car stalling.

    Maybe you should try it out. In manual mode, let go off the clutch without using the throttle. You will see that the car doesn't move after stalling, unless you press the clutch again. Then you can strat driving again.
     
  6. Opportune

    Opportune

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    5
    Hello all, I've searched and tried to find my answer, but all I've gotten were mixed and matched posts.

    My brothers and I were recently gifted the Logitech G25 (Woot!) for our use with Gran Turismo 5 Prologue (North American). I had a question about the clutch. The wheel, H-shifter, brake/acc pedals work all just fine and better than my expectations, but I noticed that I can easily shift gears (on the H-shifter) without the use of the clutch. Am I not configuring the settings correctly? (Yes, I set the transmission to Manual.) Is the clutch supported by GT5Prologue? Yet I'm reading posts that GT5P does support it. Hell, I've seen some youtube videos depicting the use of the G25's clutch with GT5P. I'm at a loss. :/
     
  7. Masi_23

    Masi_23

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    it does not stall, it only goes to neutral... and the clutch only takes a small tap and it engages right away - kinda like pressing a button. Which sucks bcuz it doesn't reflect real life... but hey, better than nothing... also u can change gears without even lifting the throttle
     
  8. Masi_23

    Masi_23

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    u have to press the Tringle button on the gearbox before or during the race (just one tap) to activate the clutch... u can turn it off also by pressing the same button.
     
  9. Opportune

    Opportune

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    5
    Thanks ^^
     
  10. kikie

    kikie Premium

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    15,568
    You are so wrong about that. You can stall a car (engine) in GT5p. I'm going to make a youtube clip (ingame, if possible) just to prove I'm right and you're wrong.

    The gearbox doesn't go into neutral after stalling.
     
  11. bevo

    bevo Premium

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    2,482
    I have never stalled the engine in gt5p, but I have noticed sometimes that after losing control, I will have to tap the clutch to get the car to take off again. I wouldn't call this stalling, but it is as close as I can come to what I think you are calling stalling.
     
  12. Robie

    Robie

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    35
    Yes it is just finding the biting point I think!
     
  13. kikie

    kikie Premium

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    15,568
    Video clip is ready. It's too late to upload it now. I'll upload it tomorrow.
    Engine stalling GT5p clip as proof :p (I hope I know what engine stalling means, if not than I'm wrong ofcourse)


    Good night



    :)
     
  14. bevo

    bevo Premium

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    2,482
    I'm pretty sure your wrong. I drive a standard in real life. I do stall it occasionally, and I have never had a car stall in gt5p.
     
  15. Jay

    Jay Premium

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    The engine does not stall as such in which it requires a manual restart in GT5P. The engine will just die to 0 RPM but as soon as you press the clutch and press the throttle it comes back to life, we no starter button option so it automatically comes to life.

    As for it being a on/off button, it has a biting period but it is quite short over the clutch travel so it appears as a on/off switch, when you get used to it you can slip the clutch fairly easily.


    One thing I do find strange and annoying is if you enable the clutch (triangle) then press it (disengage the drivetrain) with no throttle the engine revs to drop to 0 rpm, where it should just be idling.


    I hope in the update or atleast in the full GT5 the bugs are removed, we get a start button option and the clutch gets more usable travel.
     
  16. kikie

    kikie Premium

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    15,568
    If you let go of the clutch and the engine dies, isn't that stalling?


    Read the first sentences:


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stall_(engine)

    Reading this, I'm right. But I don't know anymore, I still could be wrong.

    I can't upload the cilp. Everytime I try to upload it to youtube, 3 times already, I get the message, half way down the uploading process, that the internet cannot find the page. :grumpy:

    Isn't there another way to upload this clip. I would like to show you all and tell me if I'm wrong or not. I'm still think I right though.

    I'm trying to upload it to granturismoTV right now but it doesn't seem to work either




    :(
     
  17. Robie

    Robie

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    35
    When you stall you can not rev the engine at all.

    This is not the case in GT... all it does is put you in neutral.

    Try Livevideo.com for an alternative to youtube. Or there is also google videos and plenty of others there.
     
  18. ExigeEvan

    ExigeEvan Premium

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    17,154
    Okay, I don't have the game but from reading this statement
    Then the engine is indeed stalling.

    If that's incorrect fine, but 0rpm is not idling, it's stalling.
     
  19. Robie

    Robie

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    35
    I can't remember if it goes straight down to 0 RPM but obviously it will do eventually unless you use the throttle.
     
  20. kikie

    kikie Premium

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    15,568
    I'm sorry but I don't know what game all of you are playing but we are talking about gran turismo 5 prologue or not? The car does stall in GT5p and does not put the car in neutral after stalling.

    Granted, to start the engine again, you simply have to push the clutch instead of turning a key or push an engine - starting - button on the dashboard.
    IRL, BMW and Mini diesel have the same feature. If you come to a stop at a red light and you put these cars into neutral, the engine cuts off. If you push the clutch, the engine starts again. I know this is not stalling. I'm merely saying that pushing the clutch to start the engine again is also a feature IRL cars.

    CLIP

    http://www.brightcove.tv/title.jsp?title=1580379007

    During this lap, I pushed the clutch to show that I'm using manual. after the inside track of Daytona road, on the first left hand long turn, part of the Daytona speedway track, I shifted on purpose without the clutch. You will see that the car goes into neutral (as said by others in previous posts). I shifted from 4th to 5th and to 6th without the clutch (1 min. 23 sec. till 1 min. 37 sec.) . This is just to illustrate that you cannot miss-shift in GT5p and get away with it.

    At around 2 min and 20 sec., I parked the car. Now, watch what I'm doing with the clutch (PiP), the throttle and watch the gearbox selector on the HUD.
    I purposely let go of the clutch after revving the engine but I don't use the throttle to start driving. You will see that the engine cuts off and the car makes a little jump forward, like IRL. Then, when the engine stalled, I push the throttle and the engine doesn't revv anymore because it has been stalled.
    Then I push in the clutch and the engine re-engages. While I stall the engine (I still think you can stall the engine in GT5p but I could be wrong but I'm not :lol:), you will see that the gearbox selector on the HUD does not go into neutral, like many of you said. It will stay in the chosen gear. I did it with 1st and 2nd gear.

    This clip was made with the Viper SRT10 in professional mode. I think it will be the same in standard mode. No aids except for ABS set to 1.

    Watch the clip carefully.




    :)
     
  21. Robie

    Robie

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    35
    Hey that's nice. Shame you don't have to press a button to restart the engine. Seems silly to have a feature that doesnt fully work... oh like the rest of GT5 Prologue!!
     
  22. ZeratulSG

    ZeratulSG

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    917
    Aha! Thanks for that tip, would be nice to have it somewhere in the game manual or something...

    I just got my G25 last night and, aside from realizing I need to buy a bigger coffee table to mount it on (I can't fit my legs under that bulbous gearshift attachment), I also discovered absolutely no effect in GT5P when disengaging the clutch. I guess I now know why...

    On the topic of the wheel briefly, my plus points are:
    - the build quality (and the new car leather smell)
    - the feel of the wheel itself is a bit crisper than my old DFP
    - finally some resistance in the pedal action
    - much better paddle shifters

    My minus points are:
    - a lot of standard living room tables won't mount the gearshift attachment (you need a table with no trussing underneath)
    - I find it difficult to left-foot brake when using the paddle shifters because the clutch pedal is in the way
    - I really miss having look back, left, and right at my fingertips
    - what's the deal with the stupidly short USB cable? I have to use a USB extension to reach from my driving position to my PS3
     
  23. Jay

    Jay Premium

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    20,087
    Location:
    Australia
    Yeah the engine goes to zero so it does actually stall but even so makes strange noises when you press the throttle when at 0 rpm and comes alive as soon as you press the throttle in neutra (doesnt need a starter)l and if you let go of the throttle in neutral the revs go back to 0 rpm, what am I saying is the engine reponds from 0 rpm like it would from idle, the game will not idle on its own when the clutch is enabled.

    No the car will stop dead at 0 rpm if you stall it in GT5P.
     
  24. kikie

    kikie Premium

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    15,568
    Now that I have proven that you can stall the engine in GT5p, nobody is making any comments anymore and saying that I'm wrong.



    :lol:
     
  25. bevo

    bevo Premium

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    2,482

    I still think you are wrong, if that's what you want to hear. Have you ever stalled a car in real life? If you have, then you would know that you can't stall the car in gt5p. I have seen nothing in the game that simulates a car actually stalling. Try going about 10 mph and shifting into 6th gear. This would definitely stall a real car, in gt the car will not sputter and jump, it will still pick up speed without killing the engine. Also get up to speed in 6th gear and then slow down without down shifting. This would also stall out a real car, but in the game nothing happens until you come to a complete stop. Then you have to press in the clutch to go again. I guess you could call the stalling for your argument, but it would be your only instance in the game that you could refer to to help your argument. For my argument I can find a lot more instances where a car should stall in the game and it doesn't. You can only find one where it should and does, and that is when you come to a complete stop and don't push in the clutch to take off. I really don't think that you could call that stalling. I'm not sure what you would call it, maybe reengaging the transmission from a stopped position.

    It seems to me that your more worried about proving your point of the car stalling, then actually trying to figure out, if the car actually stalls in the game. If you have to go out of your way to figure out if the car stalls, when real world techniques will not stall the car in the game. Then the car probably doesn't stall in the game. But if you really want the car to stall, then i'm sure you can find at least 1 way to make what you call stalling work to make your argument justified.
     
  26. kikie

    kikie Premium

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    15,568
    This exactly what happens in GT5p, so it is stalling. After stalling in GT5p, the engine isn't turning anymore. You can press the throttle and nothing happens which means that the car stalled.


    I didn't come to think of that. You're right. In this example the car in GT5p does not stall.

    And these instances are?

    Read the explanation from Wikipedia again because that is exactly what is happening in GT5p, thus it is stalling. Maybe like you said, it's the only time a car in GT5p stalls but it is stalling. You can clearly see in the clip that the car jumps a little bit before cutting down the engine (apply throttle and nothings happens so the engine is not turning anymore), like in real life.

    Nope, why should I? I think you want to prove that I'm wrong while in one case, I'm definitely not. It's not that I want to prove anything, I'm just stating a fact. I think that you want to proof that I'm wrong.
    I was trying to figure it out. I think that you didn't even bother to look at the clip I made.

    Yep, I agree, there is only one way to make the car stalls but in this case it is definitely stalling.

    All the other arguments you made are correct.

    Maybe PD will implement accurate engine stalling in GT5?
     
  27. bevo

    bevo Premium

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    2,482
    I think that we are both right. The car does seem to stall in the way you say it does. So yes I guess you could say that it stalls, so yes you are right.

    The car does not stall in my instances that I mentioned as in being in the
    wrong gear when slowing down or accelerating. So I am also right.

    It seems that we have a stalemate here, good game.
     
  28. RoboKrikit

    RoboKrikit Premium

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    93
    I'm not sure how anyone who has actually tried it can say that the car does not stall in Prologue. It does stall. It will not stall in every comparable real-life situation that would stall a car (e.g. bevo's 10mph shift to 6th scenario), but it stalls nonetheless in common situations like stopping without putting the clutch in, or letting out the clutch without enough throttle.

    It's easy enough to miss the stalling feature if you're just racing normally, since we're not stop-and-go driving in traffic in GT5:p, so it's not surprising that not everyone has noticed it.
     
  29. kikie

    kikie Premium

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    15,568
    I did try the 10mph test and when driving that slow in 6th gear, the engine cuts off. You can push the throttle and nothing happens.

    Like Bevo said and he's right, the cars doesn't stutter and jump like in real life.