G27 flaw

[Nauraushaun]

I believe there to be a silly flaw with the G27 on GT5, I wonder if it bugs anyone else.
If you're on the accelerator at all when you change gears with the H-pattern shifter, it puts you in neutral.

This is utterly ridiculous, Rev-matching with the accelerator during gear changes is a common and recommended technique used when racing. What's more, being on the accelerator a little when you change is likely when shifting quickly. And in a real car, you can rev all you want, as long as the shifter goes in you're set. Flat shifting is another thing done sometimes that is impossible with this wheel on this game.

There's nothing more frustrating than trying to nail quick gearchanges and you get stuck in neutral.

Another thing is that if you push the shifter in at all (which happens when you're shifting fast), it goes into reverse mode and also puts you in neutral :\

I don't see how PD didn't notice this.

 

[sesselpupser]

Yeah, I hate this too. To be fair, though, if you treat GT5 like driving an actual real car and double de-clutch during a heel-toe downshift (or any downshift, with or without braking while downshifting) then it's fine. The normal process for me in most sims like Race 07 and rFactor goes like this: Clutch in, foot off gas, shift to the new gear, rev, clutch out. In real life and GT5 I do this: Clutch in, foot off gas, shift to neutral, clutch out, rev, stop revving, clutch in, shift to new gear, clutch out. It's important in real life to not have the clutch in while revving the engine because that, of course, is what wears the clutch out prematurely. Apply that in GT5 and you'll be ok.

The problem there though is that slows you down and it's more to think about. Also leaving the car in neutral after a bad shift is crazy because no real-life knowledge will help you when that happens, you just end up kicking the clutch and shifting back out and into the gear and hope that fixes it. In real life you would never have the stick in position but the car not be in gear, would you? So if they're trying to simulate the stick coming out of gear (I have no idea why because that doesn't happen if you're on the gas while shifting) they really shouldn't because the hardware can't emulate that.

Also to avoid accidentally pressing down on the stick I just use one or two fingers or the side of my hand when shifting, the shifter itself is too small for my hands anyway so grabbing the shift knob just feels weird. That means I pretty much never put any downward force on the stick at all. Even when shifting into reverse I just use the palm of my hand, grabbing the stick as I would in a real car just reminds me that I'm playing with a toy, not actually driving, and that realisation is something some sim racers pay a LOT of money to avoid!

I wonder if the Thrustmaster shifter is the same?

 

[fatkrakr]

All shifters in gt5 work the same way. Its not the shifters that are flawed its PD,s implementation of the clutch.

 

[Bigbazz]

The games lack of any deadzone for the pedals annoys me. In all my PC sims I dont need to set any deadzone for my brake pedal, but now in GT5 it seems the brake is so sensitive within the game that its sometimes randomly slowing me down while I'm driving, It actually is the main reason I have not played GT5 for around 5 months.

No issues with the brake pedal in any other games even with 0 deadzone, but in GT5 I have issues because it is so sensitive, with no deadzone able to be set it means my G27 is useless for GT5 as the brake will randomly go on and off when I'm not using it.

 

[occasionalracer]

I agree with with your frustration on the shifting, and the source of the problem is definitely GT5, although I haven't been able to give PC games a try, I know it's pretty flawed and not worth the risk when doing online racing or time trials. I'm an absolute pro shifting in the real world including heel/toe, so I know the problem isn't lack of "skill", but crappy calibration/programming issue.

You're right this is something that needs to be looked at, and while the TH8RS feels more realistic, I still can't seem to "get it". I'd love to be using the gearbox and clutch, but until I can change gears the same speed as sequentially, I'm forced to use +/-. I'd love to see if Fanetec's CSW in combination with CSP v2 and their upcoming gearbox will result in proper shifts that don't go neutral... doubt it though since it's GT5.

 

[USARMYCOMBATVET]

Fair enough. I'll just shut up.

 

[occasionalracer]

I slap my shifter into gear when I race instead of holding it. (Get your mind out of the gutter). No pun intended.

Also, the shifting issue seems to vary by car(FOR ME) and whether or not I've bought all the drivetrain parts for that car. I'm not saying this alleviates the issue but it certainly helps in most cases as buying the semi-racing flywheel is supposed to make the car shift into gear quicker.

Ok, I "slap" my shifter into gear too... I'm not holding anything. It's the fact that somehow the shifts aren't as instant as I'd like due to mismatched clutch depression/release, as well as the "mis-shifts" that GT5 registers as N even though I'm in gear.... this happens like 5-10% of the time for me.

To be fair, I think because I used to get so pissed off about it, and still do when I give it a another try, I would be able to tune my clutch/shifting timing and get more of a hang of it, but that's not the point, it's about that it should react as in real life, so far it's not proper just like the games physics.

As far as your flywheel assessment, I doubt it, could be placebo cause the only thing a lighweight flywheel does is remove rotational mass off your crankshaft which is awesome for letting the engine rev quicker but it's got zero to do with the shifting mechanism of a given transmission, it can effects the gear ratios but not how quick the driver can physically shift between gears.

 

[occasionalracer]

Fair enough. I'll just shut up.

Lol, brilliant edit/response.

 

[USARMYCOMBATVET]

Lol, brilliant edit/response.

Wow, so, not only will you insult my response. You'll insult my acknowledgement that I didn't know what I was talking about? Here's to good times. I was only attempting to help and I'm sorry you somehow took that as an insult to your intelligence. welcome to my ignore list.

 

[sesselpupser]

Wow, so, not only will you insult my response. You'll insult my acknowledgement that I didn't know what I was talking about? Here's to good times. I was only attempting to help and I'm sorry you somehow took that as an insult to your intelligence. welcome to my ignore list.

I think you might have overreacted a little.

 

[occasionalracer]

Wow, so, not only will you insult my response. You'll insult my acknowledgement that I didn't know what I was talking about? Here's to good times. I was only attempting to help and I'm sorry you somehow took that as an insult to your intelligence. welcome to my ignore list.

Alrighty then, I was just discussing the topic, if you've mastered the skill of shifting in GT5 without any problem (which I know many probably have), that's amazing. My intelligence was never threatened, I'll even admit that I wish my intelligence was much greater, however I'm excited to be on your ignore list for avoid future mis-communication.

 

[Will27]

The games lack of any deadzone for the pedals annoys me. In all my PC sims I dont need to set any deadzone for my brake pedal, but now in GT5 it seems the brake is so sensitive within the game that its sometimes randomly slowing me down while I'm driving, It actually is the main reason I have not played GT5 for around 5 months.

No issues with the brake pedal in any other games even with 0 deadzone, but in GT5 I have issues because it is so sensitive, with no deadzone able to be set it means my G27 is useless for GT5 as the brake will randomly go on and off when I'm not using it.

Sounds like you need to try this?

 

[aBrick]

Its not the "having the pedal still mashed while changing gear" which is the flaw, this is bad driving for the fast revving, tuned engines such as race cars.
You can change gear with the accelerator on half (or less) throttle and no problem. My only issue is that when the shifter is in the gear there seems to be a slight hesitation in gt5 recognising your in gear. I'm sure you know what I mean!

 

[1241Penguin]

The only reason why the game will put you into neutral is because PD didn't (bother to) model transmission failure.

 

[occasionalracer]

The only reason why the game will put you into neutral is because PD didn't (bother to) model transmission failure.

Negative.. I've been plowing through gears in real life for 10 years, downshifting with and without heel/toe, I have never managed to damage a transmission although I've managed to wear out serveral stock clutches within a few years and only slightly weakened an Exedi Stage 2 clutch that has 60k km on it.

Now I'd be happy to wear out my virtual clutch and grind a couple of virtual teeth off my virtual gearset - in return I want a chance to do so, I think I got a couple Cr. laying around for rebuilding. In the meantime I'll stick to babying my virtual transmission in seq. mode....

 

[Bigbazz]

Sounds like you need to try this?

That would void my warrenty, since the problem is only there in GT5 and no other games, it's not worth it. Thanks anyway though, I guess.

 

[1241Penguin]

Negative.. I've been plowing through gears in real life for 10 years, downshifting with and without heel/toe, I have never managed to damage a transmission although I've managed to wear out serveral stock clutches within a few years and only slightly weakened an Exedi Stage 2 clutch that has 60k km on it.

Now I'd be happy to wear out my virtual clutch and grind a couple of virtual teeth off my virtual gearset - in return I want a chance to do so, I think I got a couple Cr. laying around for rebuilding. In the meantime I'll stick to babying my virtual transmission in seq. mode....

That's what I was talking about; that shifting without pressing the clutch pedal fully should do some sort of damage to the transmission. Because PD didn't model this, it meant that we could shift without having to use the clutch pedal at no consequence, and possibly make you go faster. Unless PD did something compensate for this, which they did by throwing you into neutral if you don't shift properly.

 

[sesselpupser]

That's what I was talking about; that shifting without pressing the clutch pedal fully should do some sort of damage to the transmission. Because PD didn't model this, it meant that we could shift without having to use the clutch pedal at no consequence, and possibly make you go faster. Unless PD did something compensate for this, which they did by throwing you into neutral if you don't shift properly.

Maybe you're right but if that's what they're doing it would make so much more sense for a bad shift to merely slow the shift down, but still leave you in the gear you have selected. The worst part of being left in neutral for me is that I don't know how to fix it, it doesn't happen regularly enough for me to remember whether you just need to dip the clutch again or shift out and back in. I think it's the latter but I end up wildly kicking the clutch and shifting and that wastes more time.

 

[Goshin2568]

Yeah, I hate this too. To be fair, though, if you treat GT5 like driving an actual real car and double de-clutch during a heel-toe downshift (or any downshift, with or without braking while downshifting) then it's fine. The normal process for me in most sims like Race 07 and rFactor goes like this: Clutch in, foot off gas, shift to the new gear, rev, clutch out. In real life and GT5 I do this: Clutch in, foot off gas, shift to neutral, clutch out, rev, stop revving, clutch in, shift to new gear, clutch out. It's important in real life to not have the clutch in while revving the engine because that, of course, is what wears the clutch out prematurely. Apply that in GT5 and you'll be ok.

The problem there though is that slows you down and it's more to think about. Also leaving the car in neutral after a bad shift is crazy because no real-life knowledge will help you when that happens, you just end up kicking the clutch and shifting back out and into the gear and hope that fixes it. In real life you would never have the stick in position but the car not be in gear, would you? So if they're trying to simulate the stick coming out of gear (I have no idea why because that doesn't happen if you're on the gas while shifting) they really shouldn't because the hardware can't emulate that.

Also to avoid accidentally pressing down on the stick I just use one or two fingers or the side of my hand when shifting, the shifter itself is too small for my hands anyway so grabbing the shift knob just feels weird. That means I pretty much never put any downward force on the stick at all. Even when shifting into reverse I just use the palm of my hand, grabbing the stick as I would in a real car just reminds me that I'm playing with a toy, not actually driving, and that realisation is something some sim racers pay a LOT of money to avoid!

I wonder if the Thrustmaster shifter is the same?

Double de-clutching is obviously not the correct answer. Not only is it not even a common practice in real life, but even if it was it is no excuse for PD incorrectly modeling the clutch and transmission.

 

[sesselpupser]

Double de-clutching is obviously not the correct answer. Not only is it not even a common practice in real life, but even if it was it is no excuse for PD incorrectly modeling the clutch and transmission.

Why it is the way it is is anyone's guess but downshifting the way I described works for me.

 

[Nauraushaun]

Because PD didn't model this, it meant that we could shift without having to use the clutch pedal at no consequence, and possibly make you go faster. Unless PD did something compensate for this, which they did by throwing you into neutral if you don't shift properly.

They fixed it by over-doing it. In making a punishment for bad shifts, they've starting punishing perfectly fine shifts as well.
And what's the point? Even if you are shifting with the pedal "mashed", it's not as quick as the paddles, and you can still just use the paddles :\ I mean, it's not cheating because you're still disadvantaged using the h-pattern anyway.
What's more, it's not a realistic punishment. The only realistic punishment would be force feedback stopping you from selecting the gear, providing physical resistance.

Edit: but GT is all about unrealistic punishments I guess. Leave the track slightly: invalid lap. Hit a wall: invalid lap.

 

[Tommy_861]

Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but I just got a G27 and I can't see playing much GT5 with it if its like this permanently. Has this been brought to the attention of the developers, I mean it seems as if PD has been responsive to users concerns.

In real life both in my road car and my race car its clutch in, slight lift, upshift, clutch out, here if I do that I end up in neutral. Downshift its clutch in, throttle blip, downshift, clutch out, here same thing I get caught in neutral sometimes. I refuse to change my driving style to fit the game, it will just defeat the purpose of even having this setup.