G27 load cell brake physical deadzone suggestions

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wdreamsmaycome

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I have a load cell in my G27 brake pedal and it works great on PC games since there you can set a deadzone. With GT6 just out I am now back to driving on the PS3 and the brake pedal is driving me nuts because the load cell takes probably a couple mm to start engaging (in terms of pressure) *but* it starts outputting values right away, which means that if I even so much as slightly rest my foot on it I get ~10% braking applied in GT6 which makes the car slow down (as much as irl I right foot brake, I've been left foot braking in sims since forever so this is super annoying).

Anybody has any ideas? Since for sure GT6 will never support deadzones, my only choices would be either finding a way to stiffen the first tiny bit of pedal travel (some rubber somewhere probably, but I can't think of where) OR finding a way to prevent the brake pedal from having full travel and have it stop when the load engages (so if I rest my foot on it it won't activate any braking).

Has anybody had this issue and found a way to solve it?
 
With my loadcell (in my G27) it simply requires me to use some force, i.e.. the more I push seems to recalibrate to the new level of input.

It could also be a wiring issue, I can wire mine up in a few different way and while my PC isn't fussy the PS3 is more so.

Which loadcell do you have?
 
King Rocket
With my loadcell (in my G27) it simply requires me to use some force, i.e.. the more I push seems to recalibrate to the new level of input.
Click to expand...

that works for me too for max, it's just the initial travel that always registers (so I can recalibrate what 100% is like in terms of pressure, but the initial travel goes maybe down from 10% to 5% but in Gran Turismo 5% brake is already pretty strong for some reason). I have rigged up something with steel wire to prevent the pedal from coming back up as much as it did (just a few mm, to avoid the 'easy travel' part) so we'll see how that goes. I have the APElectrix load cell, others might behave differently in terms of travel I think (after posting I've found some people that modded some springs on this load cell to fix the 'easy travel at the beginning' issue so I guess I am not the only one ;) )
 
it just feels like as if there is a little bit of 'play' at the beginning of the travel that still registers as braking in GT, with some steel wire preventing the pedal from coming back up all the way it's perfect now, still it would be nice if this could be done in software...
 
OdeFinn
REad more from that thread, there is infos where to get, costs few euros from ebay.
Click to expand...

would probably be more than a few euros to ship to North America ;) I was hoping you (or somebody) would have some basic measurements so I could go to the hardware store here and look around

(edit) the virtasenkauppa page does have measurements for the springs, do you by any chance remember which one(s) you used?
 
wdreamsmaycome
would probably be more than a few euros to ship to North America ;) I was hoping you (or somebody) would have some basic measurements so I could go to the hardware store here and look around

(edit) the virtasenkauppa page does have measurements for the springs, do you by any chance remember which one(s) you used?
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Just measured aprox, 20mmX9,5mm and 40mmX9,5mm that 20mm length spring is important, can't be longer or is pressing sensor even on idle.
 
wdreamsmaycome
thanks so much for measuring, so one of the springs is 20mm and the other 40mm? how is the 40mm working if only 20mm fits? not sure I understand :)
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Both are working, 40mm is having small compression even on idle, 20mm isn't.
Overall combined hardness of those two springs is what is coming on movement area of pedal, I have few different stiffness springs on that sizes, depends how hard or soft you want that travel to be.
 
APESensor.jpg

That small gap over there has to be there, between aluminium and plastic, there is mini spring under it what releases pressure from loadcell sensor when idle, gap is only on other side, that side can't be pressured when on idle, other side can be under pressure all the time, thats why there is longer spring over there.
 
wdreamsmaycome
I have a load cell in my G27 brake pedal and it works great on PC games since there you can set a deadzone. With GT6 just out I am now back to driving on the PS3 and the brake pedal is driving me nuts because the load cell takes probably a couple mm to start engaging (in terms of pressure) *but* it starts outputting values right away, which means that if I even so much as slightly rest my foot on it I get ~10% braking applied in GT6 which makes the car slow down (as much as irl I right foot brake, I've been left foot braking in sims since forever so this is super annoying).

Anybody has any ideas? Since for sure GT6 will never support deadzones, my only choices would be either finding a way to stiffen the first tiny bit of pedal travel (some rubber somewhere probably, but I can't think of where) OR finding a way to prevent the brake pedal from having full travel and have it stop when the load engages (so if I rest my foot on it it won't activate any braking).

Has anybody had this issue and found a way to solve it?
Click to expand...
OK remove the Brake association from within the Console set up and reboot it then reset the Brake pedal as the Brake control but push till the bar it at the top of the indicator and then a touch more , this in effect should give you a small dead zone, I thought this as adjustable in most console games anyway,

What OdeFinn is showing IS NOT a LOAD CELL either it is a pressure resistance pad device that gives sometimes erroneous readings . I know because I use one BUT I made milled flat pads to go above and below the pressure tab ans this made a huge difference to how it behaves. I also placed a switch in the circuit so I couls turn it off and clear the voltages that is sometimes stored removing dead zone, on the PC .
 
MozzMann
What OdeFinn is showing IS NOT a LOAD CELL either it is a pressure resistance pad device that gives sometimes erroneous readings . I know because I use one BUT I made milled flat pads to go above and below the pressure tab ans this made a huge difference to how it behaves. I also placed a switch in the circuit so I couls turn it off and clear the voltages that is sometimes stored removing dead zone, on the PC .
Click to expand...

What Ode posted is exactly what the OP has, he is not incorrect.
 
Lol, Load sensor, Pressure Pad, maybe even piezo sensor, resistor still something what make voltages vary when altered pressure on it :)

Had to keep this in mind, and I'm not having Load Cell mod on my pedals, I'm having Load Sensor mod :)

@MozzMann, 'coz you know electronics can you say what i'm holding on my hand, tell me what that is? (above that microSIM)
20131206_195614.jpg
 
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What "wdreamsmaycome" has I have no idea as the stock G25/27 WILL NOT handle a true loadcell without an interpreter driver circuit board. such as a Leo Bodnar or Derek Speare unit.

King Rocket
What Ode posted is exactly what the OP has, he is not incorrect.
Click to expand...
That IS NOT a "Load Cell" Pure and simple what he is showing is an AP Electrix pressure resistor that behaves exactly as a pot but instead of rotation it changes output via pressure sensitive material. It utilizes an A201 Force Sensor pad from Tecscan.

I run one as well and have redesigned it so that the sensor pad has a solid milled surface on both sides so that the pressure applied is as true as can be gained and thus to give a truer voltage output. Mine also now has 2 springs to raise the pressure plate about .001 off the sensor at rest. This doesn't change the fact you need to physically disconnect the pad from the circuit since it appears to retain a voltage over time resulting in your pedal getting harder and harder for the same output and this also effects the way a game interprets the signal.

This is why I have found that the output settings change and the brake pedal requires resetting by removing the wire to allow the sensor to bleed off the floating voltage that seems to accrue. I have actually placed a switch in line with mine now that disconnects the sensor from it's voltage supply and grounds it. this resets the brake and allows it to function again as intended Whether this will work for a console set up I do not know mine is PC only.

I am currently working on a true hydraulic unit that feels as close to a real car as you can get in a sim situation and am trying to get the ABS tuned better , yes I said ABS this is EXTERNAL to Games and simulations and would not be effected by fised setups and other constraints set by race server's either and has FFB as well :)
 
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MozzMann
This is why I have found that the output settings change and the brake pedal requires resetting by removing the wire to allow the sensor to bleed off the floating voltage that seems to accrue. I have actually placed a switch in line with mine now that disconnects the sensor from it's voltage supply and grounds it. this resets the brake and allows it to function again as intended Whether this will work for a console set up I do not know mine is PC only
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AP Electrix Load Cell Mod for the Logitech G27 Pedals

After modding those two extra springs mod contains four springs, one original (inside mod), one super small to lifting aluminium pad away from Pressure Pad when idling/resting and those two making some Pressure Resistance to pedal movement before original spring gets on. It makes easier to handle pedal, and that "stupid floppy area" become usable as feathering brake. Helps precisely on problem what OP was suffering.


PS. Three Axis Gyroscope
 
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