G27 vs DFGT vs CSR Elite question

[select20]

Hey guys, recently sold my CSR Elite. I "upgraded" from a DFGT that I had for like 4 years. That thing worked like new up until the day I sold it. When I first got the CSR Elite, I didn't like it. But after paying that much money, of course I was going to force myself to get used to it.

I thought it would take a week, then weeks, then a month.... you see where this is going. TO make a long story short, 19months, I never got to liking it. In fact, all my fastest times on GT5, except for just a few were on my DFGT. I'm not knocking the wheel, but it just couldn't like it.

So to my question, since the CSR is gone now, I'm going to buy another wheel and I'm really tempted to just get another DFGT. But, since Logitech made both the DFGT and the G27, I'm actually thinking of just getting that. I'm here to ask people what they think of the DFGT vs the G27? Personal opinions I know, because I still can't believe I never liked the CSR. In your opinions, is the G27 that much better than the DFGT?

I'll be playing GT6 and Iracing again this time around. I actually quit playing racing games because of the wheel. Go figure, anyways, thanks.

**EDIT**
Oh, and does the G27 work on the PS4? I notice on the Logitech website it says PC and PS3.

 

[Blown03Cobra]

I own both the DFGT and G27. IMO the G27 is by far a better wheel.

 

[LeMansAid]

Was it an issue of lap times? I know that some people swear by the DFGT in that sense.

Otherwise, what was the issue(s).

I think that the Logitech wheels will eventually function with the PS4, there's just nothing pushing that (ie. no games) through at the moment.

 

[skazz]

Given that Logitech PS4 support is currently unclear, unlike Thurstmaster which has actually taken steps to get their wheel drivers in the PS4 OS already, I'd urge caution.

Get a new DFGT, run it for GT6 for the next year, then look around in the wheel market once PS4 has some serious racing games and decent wheels have been released which are fully compatible. You know that you can be fast with the DFGT, so there's no real downside.

(Of course, when going back to the DFGT you will probably be surprised by how much worse the pedals and paddles are than your old CSR Elite. In that respect the G27 would be less of a jump down.)

 

[select20]

Was it an issue of lap times? I know that some people swear by the DFGT in that sense.

Otherwise, what was the issue(s).

I think that the Logitech wheels will eventually function with the PS4, there's just nothing pushing that (ie. no games) through at the moment.

Yeah, it wasn't only lap times, but just I felt like the feedback or secondary feedback, if I can call it that, I got from the DFGT was much better. An example would be if I had to counter-steer just a little, I could feel through the feedback the entire time I was moving to counter-steer, feel the steering get light again so you knew just how much you would have to turn the wheel to get everything completely under control again. The CSR Elite, I always would have trouble finding the sweet spot when counter-steering. So many times I would over correct or not correct enough because I felt like I was guessing. I'm not talking about when just leisurely driving either, I'm talking when you feel like you're at the limit of the car, fighting it a lot because you would be pushing so hard. I always had trouble pushing the cars really hard with the CSR. Again, I thought it was just that I needed time to get used to it. /shrug

 

[select20]

Given that Logitech PS4 support is currently unclear, unlike Thurstmaster which has actually taken steps to get their wheel drivers in the PS4 OS already, I'd urge caution.

Get a new DFGT, run it for GT6 for the next year, then look around in the wheel market once PS4 has some serious racing games and decent wheels have been released which are fully compatible. You know that you can be fast with the DFGT, so there's no real downside.

(Of course, when going back to the DFGT you will probably be surprised by how much worse the pedals and paddles are than your old CSR Elite. In that respect the G27 would be less of a jump down.)

Ahh didn't know that. I think I'll take this advice. So the DFGT works fine with the PS4?

***I had just read that the no peripherals work with the ps4 yet. My Ps3 just died on my about 2 months ago, so I guess I'll hold off a wheel till we know hat is going to work. Don't want to buy another ps3 just to play GT6 hehe.

 

[skazz]

First things first: no previous gen controller (Xbox 360 or PS3) can be used as a fully functional controller on the next gen (Xbox One, PS4) machines. However, where Microsoft made a complete break so you have to buy new peripherals for everything, Sony opted to allow vendors to provide drivers for old gen peripherals which game makers can choose to support inside their games. These older controllers won't be fully functional to control the PS4 menus but can be used inside games properly.

There is no definitive information about any Logitech wheel and PS4 except that currently no Logitech wheel has drivers available in the PS4 OS, and therefore they don't spin up when you attach them to a PS4. Same applies to Fanatec. Since there's not yet a single PS4 race game with wheel support, that's not yet a problem, but if Logitech doesn't ensure drivers are added in a PS4 update it will become a problem.

Right now, the only wheels I've heard of which spin up when attached to a PS4 are the Thrustmaster T80 (which is PS4-branded and fully supported and whose buttons work in PS4 menus, but it has no FFB) and the T500RS (which spins up and will work in games, including confirmation that it works by Driveclub devs, but doesn't have compatible PS4 buttons for use in the PS4 menus).

My comment was that right now we don't know what will happen. It's quite likely that Thrustmaster will launch a T500RS replacement for the launch of GT7 which is fully PS4 compatible, which will obviously be better than the current T500RS' inability to be used in PS4 menus. It's possible that Logitech will provide drivers to Sony, but there's no guarantee on that at this time.

So I would recommend buying a cheap but known wheel (I.e. DFGT) in preparation for the scenario that Logitech doesn't come through, minimizing risk.

Personally I went the other way and bought a T500RS to replace my Fanatec.....

 

[select20]

First things first: no previous gen controller (Xbox 360 or PS3) can be used as a fully functional controller on the next gen (Xbox One, PS4) machines. However, where Microsoft made a complete break so you have to buy new peripherals for everything, Sony opted to allow vendors to provide drivers for old gen peripherals which game makers can choose to support inside their games. These older controllers won't be fully functional to control the PS4 menus but can be used inside games properly.

There is no definitive information about any Logitech wheel and PS4 except that currently no Logitech wheel has drivers available in the PS4 OS, and therefore they don't spin up when you attach them to a PS4. Same applies to Fanatec. Since there's not yet a single PS4 race game with wheel support, that's not yet a problem, but if Logitech doesn't ensure drivers are added in a PS4 update it will become a problem.

Right now, the only wheels I've heard of which spin up when attached to a PS4 are the Thrustmaster T80 (which is PS4-branded and fully supported and whose buttons work in PS4 menus, but it has no FFB) and the T500RS (which spins up and will work in games, including confirmation that it works by Driveclub devs, but doesn't have compatible PS4 buttons for use in the PS4 menus).

My comment was that right now we don't know what will happen. It's quite likely that Thrustmaster will launch a T500RS replacement for the launch of GT7 which is fully PS4 compatible, which will obviously be better than the current T500RS' inability to be used in PS4 menus. It's possible that Logitech will provide drivers to Sony, but there's no guarantee on that at this time.

So I would recommend buying a cheap but known wheel (I.e. DFGT) in preparation for the scenario that Logitech doesn't come through, minimizing risk.

Personally I went the other way and bought a T500RS to replace my Fanatec.....

Great info, thanks. Also, I havn't considered buying a T500RS because like last time, I spent a chunk of change and ended up not liking it as much as the much cheeper wheel. How do you like the T500RS compared to the fanatec?

 

[skazz]

I have the Fanatec GT2, not the CSR Elite.

The T500RS is vastly better than the GT2, but that doesn't really tell you much
Hopefully other people can really compare them.

 

[FormulaKimball]

My 2 cents... DFGT is great if you don't mind the pedals.

I have owned the G25, DFGT, G27, and even the DFP still works. I actually broke my G25 out of frustration because the FF never felt quite right or timely or solid, and unfortunately in a lot of ways the G27 feels similar. DFGT, it's a great wheel especially for the price, and while its feedback could be better it's pretty easy to find that "sweet spot" in countersteering/balancing the rear end. DFGT wheels aren't very durable though, I've replaced mine several times.

Pedals are a big issue of course - the plastic ones with the DFGT and DFP leave a lot to be desired, while the metal pedals with the G25/G27 are pretty good. I made my G25 pedal board work with the DFGT/DFP wheel, but now I just use the G27 with its pedals rather than the DFGT which is again nearly dead. It works ok and feels nice of course, but I don't think I'm as fast with a G27 as with a DFGT, and the G27 doesn't give me as much of a feeling of control, particularly with changing directions.

I have the same overall feeling from Fanatec as you - love the CSR Elite pedals but none of the wheels I've tried (911 v2, CSR) really feel "right" especially with recovering any kind of slide... it's more a matter of luck than actually reacting to what you feel. I've spent a lot of time tinkering with the wheel settings, firmware, etc to try and get the right combination of response but it just never makes me feel in full control whether I'm playing GT5, GT6, or FM4. And the lag in playing FM4 via wireless probably exacerbates that out of control feeling... anytime it gets hairy it's easy to overreact because it takes so long for subtle inputs to do anything. A few tenths is no big deal if you're driving within the car's limits and not sliding... a few tenths really screws you up when you're at the limit, occasionally over the limit and the inputs get out of phase with a rear oscillation and fling you into the Armco. I'm at the point of maybe buying a Clubsport wheel but there's no way I want to invest that kind of money if the responsiveness is going to be anything like that.

T500RS ... same deal, it's a lot of money to invest not knowing how its responsiveness will feel. Also, I am hoping to get away from the console racers at some point, so I want to buy a wheel that also does well on the PC sims... Hope maybe someone here can offer suggestions

 

[True-blue-8]

hi there guys i wonder if you can help.
im a massive GT fan and always have been, so i was overwhelmed when my family all chipped in to get me a G27. with the upcoming GT Academy again and a few of my GTPlanet competitions, im yet to find a set up that i can use. im 17 and due to finance i've never been able to go motor racing, so GT is as close as i can get unfortunately. my dad told me my current set up is nowhere near to how the car would handle in real life, so i have two requests.
1. what set up should i use to make it more realistic?
2. this will probably not work 100% as it is a game, so what set up would be suited to allow me to be as competitive as i can?

i would hugely appreciate it if someone could help me or direct me to someone who can. Thank you!

 

[select20]

My 2 cents... DFGT is great if you don't mind the pedals.

I have owned the G25, DFGT, G27, and even the DFP still works. I actually broke my G25 out of frustration because the FF never felt quite right or timely or solid, and unfortunately in a lot of ways the G27 feels similar. DFGT, it's a great wheel especially for the price, and while its feedback could be better it's pretty easy to find that "sweet spot" in countersteering/balancing the rear end. DFGT wheels aren't very durable though, I've replaced mine several times.

Pedals are a big issue of course - the plastic ones with the DFGT and DFP leave a lot to be desired, while the metal pedals with the G25/G27 are pretty good. I made my G25 pedal board work with the DFGT/DFP wheel, but now I just use the G27 with its pedals rather than the DFGT which is again nearly dead. It works ok and feels nice of course, but I don't think I'm as fast with a G27 as with a DFGT, and the G27 doesn't give me as much of a feeling of control, particularly with changing directions.

I have the same overall feeling from Fanatec as you - love the CSR Elite pedals but none of the wheels I've tried (911 v2, CSR) really feel "right" especially with recovering any kind of slide... it's more a matter of luck than actually reacting to what you feel. I've spent a lot of time tinkering with the wheel settings, firmware, etc to try and get the right combination of response but it just never makes me feel in full control whether I'm playing GT5, GT6, or FM4. And the lag in playing FM4 via wireless probably exacerbates that out of control feeling... anytime it gets hairy it's easy to overreact because it takes so long for subtle inputs to do anything. A few tenths is no big deal if you're driving within the car's limits and not sliding... a few tenths really screws you up when you're at the limit, occasionally over the limit and the inputs get out of phase with a rear oscillation and fling you into the Armco. I'm at the point of maybe buying a Clubsport wheel but there's no way I want to invest that kind of money if the responsiveness is going to be anything like that.

T500RS ... same deal, it's a lot of money to invest not knowing how its responsiveness will feel. Also, I am hoping to get away from the console racers at some point, so I want to buy a wheel that also does well on the PC sims... Hope maybe someone here can offer suggestions

You could've wrote my experience, sounds exactly what I was dealing with when I used the CSR Elite. I also used it for FM4, which I never particularly liked, but used it for a break from gt5 when needed. I played Iracing quite a bit with the CSR Elite. My experience there was about the same, I spent hours, many times out of frustration, trying to get the 'feeling' right. Never did. While I could drive and win races at times, I was always wishing I had my old DFGT even in Iracing. I agree about the pedals.

 

[select20]

hi there guys i wonder if you can help.
im a massive GT fan and always have been, so i was overwhelmed when my family all chipped in to get me a G27. with the upcoming GT Academy again and a few of my GTPlanet competitions, im yet to find a set up that i can use. im 17 and due to finance i've never been able to go motor racing, so GT is as close as i can get unfortunately. my dad told me my current set up is nowhere near to how the car would handle in real life, so i have two requests.
1. what set up should i use to make it more realistic?
2. this will probably not work 100% as it is a game, so what set up would be suited to allow me to be as competitive as i can?

i would hugely appreciate it if someone could help me or direct me to someone who can. Thank you!

In my experience with a racing school under my belt, more than the average guy in Real life track time, a ton of sim time, etc., How sims/console games react vs real life physics, is it different? Yes. But if I can keep it really simple, but also help you understand; you mind is engaged in sims/consoles the same way it is when driving hard in real life. Is it exactly the same? Not completely, but experience with sims does translate to real life. Now if you do an awesome time in GT5 at Laguna with a certain car, then you go to Laguna in real life in the exact same car, you will drive like crap. Why? Because you need adjustment time. But here is the key, your adjustment time going from a sims to a real car is extremely fast, freakishly fast. That is why guys that have been driving in real life for years are getting beat by guys that have only simmed their whole life. Sure they might suck at first, but they adjust fast because real life racing wheel time and sim time engage your mind in the same manner.

Best I can explain it based on my experience seeing guys go from sim/console racing vs real life racers. I was one of those guys that did only sim/console for many years. My first few times at a track with a built evo was a joke. But after 5 or so sessions, I started getting faster times than guys that have only been real life driving for years, and they had faster cars.

I'm not science guy or Psychologist so I know I probably didn't explain it very well, but I did my best lol.

 

[FormulaKimball]

I concur with the above - if you're good at sims then it's very likely your learning curve at a real track will be shorter, you'll have an easier time finding the limit of the car and track and will know you're getting in trouble sooner, possibly able to make corrections sooner and avoid really getting in serious trouble. As my instructors have said, it's best to come as prepared as you can, don't waste your time and money in racing school learning the basics when you can learn those rudiments much more economically before you arrive.

I was a fair driver before I started playing racing sims - grew up driving manual transmission and only owned one car with an auto - but never actually raced much (unless you count the odd visit to Malibu Grand Prix or the slow go-karts at Putt-Putt or similar). I played GT3 and GT4 before finally going to Bertil Roos racing school, but after my first session in the race cars (Formula 2000 with 4-speed manual unsynchronized gearboxes) my instructor asked if I had raced before. Granted, right before I went I also ditched the auto in favor of a car with a 6 speed manual, giving me a month or so to start practicing rev matched downshifts. But did the time in Gran Turismo translate well to the real track? Absolutely. One of the guys in my class was the son of a NASCAR Cup driver - he was very quick, but I could keep up so we'd just trade off blue flags every lap. Today, I've done 10 days of racing school and have a top ten lap record at my local karting track (set while weighing almost 200lbs). I'm certain the time in GT5 and FM4 was what kept my karting times improving - especially when I was only going once or twice a year.

On DirtyNurbKing's question of getting close to real life - two things:
1) Set up of the wheel/pedals... the fact that you're using these is a big step forward. I started with some cheap chair and a tv tray that barely kept the wheel steady... eventually got a Sparco cockpit that I still use and continue to adapt for different wheels and pedals. But the difference with using a wheel instead of the controller is huge in your eye hand coordination and muscle memory on the real track. You'll be much more used to adapting, correcting, reacting the way you will need to in a real car.

2) Playing the game... I don't think any console game gets the handling 100% right, but again, the more you gradually push the limits while also using fewer or no driving aids, and some kind of first-person camera angle (not chase cam), the more your gaming time will teach you things you can translate to the track.

Oh and thanks @select20, good to know the Fanatec wheel wasn't just suffering from mating with GT or FM... funny to know you still wanted your DFGT even in iRacing My DFGT doesn't even have working paddle shifters now - have to use the sequential stick. And yet - even at Monaco, in a Formula Gran Turismo with the gears really short, the DFGT allowed me to drive left-handed and easily countersteer corner exits while shifting with my right hand.

 

[True-blue-8]

ok yeah i know exactly what you mean guys, thats why i asked. thanks

 

[Jimmy_Pop]

My brother had the DFGT and loved it. He only upgraded to the thrustmaster because he got a killer deal on it. As for ffb and turning input, the g27 and DFGT were identical, the big difference is the pedals. I have the g27 and love the pedals, they feel way more realistic than the DFGT. But for double the money, it should be better.

 

[MSTER232]

If you don't mind me asking, what part of the CSR Elite wheel didn't you like? Was the FFB not to your taste?

 

[FormulaKimball]

Chiming in again even though I only have the CSR wheel (not the CSR Elite) and I hope it's less awesome than the Elite... but basically the feedback does some things backwards (like giving resistance when it shouldn't and offering very little resistance around center), sometimes its responses are late, and it's difficult to feel the sweet "center" spot while countersteering. The only car I've driven in FM4 that does everything I like and the wheel even seems more snappy in recovering slides and so forth, is the DTM version of the Mercedes CLK... that car does everything I expect from certain inputs, phenominal balance at both ends, and somehow it makes the wheel feel more responsive and precise. So somehow that makes me think it's not all the wheel's fault... something is getting lost in translation.

 

[MSTER232]

Chiming in again even though I only have the CSR wheel (not the CSR Elite) and I hope it's less awesome than the Elite... but basically the feedback does some things backwards (like giving resistance when it shouldn't and offering very little resistance around center), sometimes its responses are late, and it's difficult to feel the sweet "center" spot while countersteering. The only car I've driven in FM4 that does everything I like and the wheel even seems more snappy in recovering slides and so forth, is the DTM version of the Mercedes CLK... that car does everything I expect from certain inputs, phenominal balance at both ends, and somehow it makes the wheel feel more responsive and precise. So somehow that makes me think it's not all the wheel's fault... something is getting lost in translation.

Has anyone tried this wheel on the PC? I think it will work better on any given PC sim because it has official support for Xbox 360 and PC given its a Fanatec.

 

[Izain]

Been using DFGT for 4 years, it's great. Definitely a 'best value' type wheel - sure the pedals and shifter are plastic-y and don't compare to more expensive wheels, but nothing else will give you as much real steering feel at that price point.

Just got G27, have used it for about a week. The build quality is a quantum step up from the DFGT. Pedal feel is much better. Paddles are great. The only thing I am having doubts on is the ffb. I have it set to 10 and sensitivity at 7 in GT6. I was driving the supercar ssnl on the Motegi ring and the resistance is fine up to a point where it 'breaks', i.e. turn the wheel too far and the resistance goes away completely and the wheel turns freely. Never saw that in the DFGT, it fought you the whole way. I've been browsing the forum a while and haven't seen anything on this so far.

 

[Blue028]

Chiming in again even though I only have the CSR wheel (not the CSR Elite) and I hope it's less awesome than the Elite... but basically the feedback does some things backwards (like giving resistance when it shouldn't and offering very little resistance around center), sometimes its responses are late, and it's difficult to feel the sweet "center" spot while countersteering. The only car I've driven in FM4 that does everything I like and the wheel even seems more snappy in recovering slides and so forth, is the DTM version of the Mercedes CLK... that car does everything I expect from certain inputs, phenominal balance at both ends, and somehow it makes the wheel feel more responsive and precise. So somehow that makes me think it's not all the wheel's fault... something is getting lost in translation.

FM has some very odd ffb at times, I have a heavily moddifies csr elite and it feels absolutely superb on pc, on forza however it often feels pretty rubbish. either the game or console could be the blame, not sure as I never played any other driving games on the xbox.

 

[FormulaKimball]

FM has some very odd ffb at times, I have a heavily moddifies csr elite and it feels absolutely superb on pc, on forza however it often feels pretty rubbish. either the game or console could be the blame, not sure as I never played any other driving games on the xbox.

Thanks for the info! Same here, only FM4 on the 360... well ok I did try NFS Most Wanted but that was such a rubbish game handling-wise, not the wheel or console's fault.

I did make the jump to PC gaming and am happy playing Assetto Corsa at the moment. I have tried all my gear and basically went back to the DFGT wheel while using the Fanatec CSR Elite pedals. Fantastic combo and it gives a great feel for each car. I sometimes wish I had a wheel that felt a bit more solid (still want a CSR Elite), but the DFGT works better than the G27 for me, in every game I've tried. Much easier to tell what the car is doing and a lot quicker and more precise with FFB especially when reversing direction quickly. Half the time I'm driving one-handed, using the sequential stick shift, and always get a satisfactory feeling for the rear end (as well as one can in AC anyway).

 

[Gunstar]

I don't think you could beat the DFGT for what it cost there at the end, I was seeing them as low as $89.99 NIB, heck I paid almost that for my used one and was JUST FINE with it. But most places seemed to sell out at $129.99, which I still find incredibly fair. Now in the (near) $200 and less FFB range it's pretty much just the G27 and the Thrustmaster T100, unless you already have a pedal set, then you could add the Fanatec GT3RSv2 and the CSR.