Getting Passed on Straightaways easily on CSRE

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BODHI85

BODHI85

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bodhisattva_85
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BODHI85
So I'm pretty new to the sim racing scene. I recently bought a Fanatec CSR Elite with Clubsport pedals and have been playing a lot of Forza.

I do notice a drastic difference when using my wheel and pedals compared to my controller though. When using my controller I am able to go fast on straightaways and can usually go right past or pull away from the other cars. However, when I use my wheel and pedals I don't seem to be able to accelerate as fast. As soon as I hit a straightaway every car is able to pass right by me easily. I am always playing catchup.

The in game controller settings shouldn't be different and I play MT and I shift pretty much the same. It just doesn't seem like my pedals are able to hit the same amount of power compared to my controller. I always floor it on long straightaways both on my controller and wheel. But I go significantly slower on my wheel.

Not sure if something is wrong with my wheel or pedal. Any idea what it could be?
 
Go to Fanatec.com, navigate to support and download the latest drivers for PC which should be v.115. Install the appropriate 32 or 64 bit version, depending on your flavor of windows.

Connect the CSP pedals to the PC via USB cable and use the Fanatec software to verify if your pedal's accelerator is working properly.

You might want to verify if the allen head screws that secure the sensor to the accelerator pedal's arm are secure and as well as the accelerator magnet screws.

I would also verify what version of firmware is installed on your CSR E wheel, that can be done on the wheel itself.

I own CSPs.
 
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The most obvious question is: Are you sure you're pressing the pedal all the way? And if so, how sure are you that they're not malfunctioning? I don't know anything about the Fanatec pedals so I can't tell you how I'd test them, but it would involve a multimeter on the resistance setting, working out which pin is which (assuming the pins all correspond to potentiometer in and outputs) and testing each pot gives you a full range of 0-10k or 100k ohms or whatever value the pots are.

Or, you know, do what Jogo said. It's probably easier but I personally prefer testing the hardware itself first.
 
In forza bring up the detailed screen for your ingame controls.
Clutch/Brake/Throttle

Look and check to ensure your brake isnt coming on or that the throttle goes to the full bar height.

Might help indicate a problem but isnt a solution Im afraid.
 
JogoAsobi
Go to Fanatec.com, navigate to support and download the latest drivers for PC which should be v.115. Install the appropriate 32 or 64 bit version, depending on your flavor of windows.

Connect the CSP pedals to the PC via USB cable and use the Fanatec software to verify if your pedal's accelerator is working properly.
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He can verify it in Forza by pulling up the on screen telemetry....it will show if he's getting full throttle in the game.
 
thehawk05
He can verify it in Forza by pulling up the on screen telemetry....it will show if he's getting full throttle in the game.
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Thanks, learned something new, don't have Forza myself.
Will pass it on to my friends in Brazil, they all use Fanatec stuff on Forza.
One of them has a problem with accelerator on CSR pedals recently purchased.
 
I installed the driver to my pc and did the tests. Everything seems to be working as it should. The throttle hits all the way up when fully pressing down. The brake operates properly and doesn't seem to be a factor in slowing me down.

I am very certain that I am flooring the pedal. I don't think that human error is the problem. I do still need to work on my wheel play, but I don't think the speed difference should be that significant, especially when going down a straightaway. I can be accelerating down a long straightaway with the front of the pack, though by the end of the straight, every car will have passed me.

It's just very frustrating to watch cars pass me easily knowing that when using a regular controller I can easily beat them. It feels like the throttle isn't going at its full capacity.

It could still be a hardware problem, but the tests seem to say that this isn't the case. My wheel also came preinstalled with the latest software since I bought it in March, so I don't think it's a software issue either. Maybe it has something to do with wheel settings or in game settings?

Also how do I check the on screen telemetry on Forza?
 
Heh I'm surprised everyone gave you technical advice, seems like an obvious non-technical problem.

Well since you've tested your pedals and everythings working properly. I can say with a great deal of certainty based on what you've written that you're not spending enough time mastering the corner.

You can almost always attribute being passed on a straightaway to a bad exit speed from a corner. Let's say I take a line through a corner leading onto a long straightaway that I've practiced a thousand times and can take at 55 MPH, and you are less experienced and are only taking it at 50 MPH.

That 5 MPH difference will carry the entire length of the straight away, and depending on the length of the straight away cause you to lose several seconds. When racing, the first thing to do is identify the longest straights on a course, and focus on getting the best possible exit speed in those corners.

I'm a very new racer myself BODHI85, but I try to do anything possible to improve my skill. I'd definetely recommend picking up a copy of this through amazon

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0837602262/?tag=gtplanet-20

Just remember, you're not going to beat a lot of these guys for a very long time. some of the guys online have been sim racing for 15+ years, and involved in real racing for longer than that. Eventually however, with enough practice and dedication both of us will be just as fast as the aliens.
 
You need to know a factual *issue* about FM4.

Despite the updates introduced a fully-released physics for the wheels - you can feel incredible amount of tyre-thread simulation once you endulge into the Simulation steering setting without assists - the controllers are still having a built-in buffer for turning.

Thus, despite of the steering mode you're into (Normal or Simulation), the controller will always have *invisible* traction thank to that steering buffer. Result is simple - with the steering buffer, controller players do not fell any handicap regarding actual tyre-thread/tyre-threshold and they can enter and exit any turn more efficiently.

And because tyre-threshold is the single most important variable in movement-physics - which determines both entry and exiting capabilities and influences traction-offset in both longitudinal and lateral movement - result is that when playing with controller you can blast in and out of the turns without having almost any handicap regarding tyre-threshold. And that is the problem of course, because at the end not only that controller players can have much more stability and traction from the turns, they can also have a greater exit-speed because of the non-existence of the full thread-simulation.

Of course, another variable is 900-degree steering. Both Normal and Simulation modes have the same input-variables for the 900-steering, only difference being is the moment where tyre-thread is reaching its grip-peak (Simulation have a full-realistic simulation of peak, while Normal has it dumbed-down). What it does for your driving is allowing you to naturally steer the vehicle and apply the proper steer and countersteer. However, once controller comes into picture things again changes, because with the wheel have to cope with more than 3X more fidelity in steering-angle (controller have only 270 degree lateral angle), resulting with need to counter-act that fidelity with much more finesse and actual work with the wheel.

Controller players only have to "act" with small movement left-right (steering buffer does the rest for them) and they're out of the apex, whoosh - while you're still fighting with the countersteer.

However, please do not allow that reality of not be able to be 100% competitive against controller players disappoints you. Forza 4 has a stunning physics of tyres, probably best on any console ever, any only real way to experience that physics is by playing with the proper 900 wheel on Simulation setting. Luckily, you have the best wheel imaginable for that, CSRE does a magnificent job in taking advantage of the full physics-simulation of Forza 4 and transmitting them to the player.

The *issue* is 100% at software side, where Turn10 decided to somewhat "sacrifice" reality in favour of playability with decisions to leave the both buffers (longitudinal and lateral) working for controllers and not filtering the steering physics (Normal and Simulation) in any competitive mode of the game.

My personal advice is to just forget all of that and focus on your subjective and personal experience of the game. I have successfully overcome that complete situation in my mind and learned how to enjoy the game for myself. For playing both Career and Rivals modes I use Simulation physics exclusively and having the greatest time in any Forza game ever.

Once I go into online, I just switch to Normal steering (those options are found in the Difficulty menu prior to the race) and usually fight for the mid-tier positions with the rest of the pack.

Be patient and learn to love the sensation, not the performance. Once you overcome the reality of not being able to be equally competitive - but with cognition how your sensation is much better and much immersive than any controller can ever provide - you will start to appreciate both game and CSRE beyond any level imaginable. Regards!
 
A few people mentioned some different ways to check and fix this, but I will put them in one post for you. Amar also gave a good description of the difference between controllers and wheels in Forza. I have a CSR Elite wheel and Clubsport pedals and I am very competitive with controller users. I only have difficulty with the true aliens.

1st. Check the telemetry in Forza. You do this while driving by pushing down on the dpad. This will show your throttle, brake, clutch, and steering positions in real time. When you press the throttle make sure it goes all the way up. When you release the brake, make sure it goes all the way down.

2nd. As JojoAsobi mentioned, check the little set screws on the underside of your pedals where the pedal connects to the actuator rod. These must be snug so the small magnet will turn. The pedals use a hall effect sensor which senses the magnetic field as the magnet rotates. If the screw holding the magnet is loose, it won't rotate.

3rd. Another thing you can setup just to make sure you are getting full throttle and complete lift off of brakes is the deadzones in the Forza for controller options. You must have the wheel connected, go into the controller options and select advanced controller settings. Here are my settings which you can try. Steering inside 0 outside 100, Throttle inside 0 outside 90, Brake inside 10 outside 100, Clutch inside 0 outside 30.

Hope you get it figured out because when properly setup, using the CSR Elite and CSPs on Forza 4 is definitely the best simracing experience on the Xbox 360.
 
amar212,

Interesting response. Confirms what I've seen in replays and while spectating watching very fast, obviously pad users, take totally unrealistic lines through corners at incredibly unrealistic speeds. Pad drivers definitely have an unfair advantage over wheel racers. I too have come to just take that as a fact of life.
 
Wow, thanks for all the great responses. I appreciate all the advice and tips.

I've come to the conclusion that I just need to work on just using the wheel/pedal. It makes sense why the controller is so much easier, since I don't have to worry on counter-steering at all. This seems to be the main thing I'm working against when using the CSRE. I guess I just need to keep practicing. And I agree that the experience with the wheel, despite not going as fast, is so much better.

@ Niexist I'll definitely check out that book. I'm not exactly a "car person", but I'm starting to find a new passion for cars and driving. If you or anyone else has any other books to recommend, I'd like to hear them.
 
BODHI85
Wow, thanks for all the great responses. I appreciate all the advice and tips.

I've come to the conclusion that I just need to work on just using the wheel/pedal. It makes sense why the controller is so much easier, since I don't have to worry on counter-steering at all. This seems to be the main thing I'm working against when using the CSRE. I guess I just need to keep practicing. And I agree that the experience with the wheel, despite not going as fast, is so much better.

@ Niexist I'll definitely check out that book. I'm not exactly a "car person", but I'm starting to find a new passion for cars and driving. If you or anyone else has any other books to recommend, I'd like to hear them.
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Hi.
as others have said - press down on the wheel d-pad while running a car on a track - this will show the telemetry page - look at the vertical bars on the left of your screen - there you will see the clutch-brake-throttle bars.
make sure the throttle bar is maxed out when you fully depress the pedal.
if not you can adjust the throttle outside deadzone in the controller settings
 
So there IS a problem.

I was playing GT5 tonight and started a career mode. I started doing the license tests and no matter what I did I could not even pass the third test (B3 Cornering) no matter how hard I tried. This test requires me to do one corner within 28sec time. I must have done it at least 20 times with no success. Always hitting at least a second over.

I felt this could not be right so I switched my wheel onto Forza and checked out the telemetry during a trial run. I discovered that when I fully press down on the pedal, my throttle is only delivering 75% power. Only when I restarted my wheel that I could perform at 100% capacity. And when I switched back to my PS3, I easily passed my test.

7075380397_a27e53e3af_b.jpg


So there it is. I'm hoping someone may have an idea as to why it is doing this. Possibly a hardware issue? Has anyone else experienced this?

Btw, does GT5 have a way to check the telemetry?
 
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fanatec pedals tend to be very sensitive BODHI85, and I'd recommend unplugging/replugging every time you start a gaming session, because the pedals can go through all sorts of weird things, brakes being on at 3-5% no matter what, accelerator/clutch not fully engaging. Pretty much the best way to fix it is always to just unplug/replug.
 
I see. If that is the case, I guess I just have to live with it. It does seem to happen quite often, so it will be a pain to keep connecting and disconnecting the pedals. Is this something everyone has to do?

I had hoped for a more permanent solution to this problem.
 
I never plug and unplug my pedals and I don't have any problems at all. It sounds to me like the set screw on the underside of your throttle pedal is loose. I have had the same problem you describe and that is what it was.

Turn your pedals over. At the pivot point where the pedal attaches to the actuator rod, you will see a very small set screw, I think it is 2.5mm or maybe 3mm. First loosen, then tighten that screw and see if it helps.
 
Troysloth is pointing you in the right direction. One more bit of information is that the actuator rod that the set screw pushes against has a slight "dimple" in it that the set screw should rest in. You should make sure that the set screw is aligned with that dimple.
 
amar, thanks for the info 👍 , I don't see myself going back to a gamepad after 5 years behind a steering wheel, if Forza wants to be classified as a sim, Turn10 should fix and balance properly the competitiveness of the game controllers.
 
eclipsee
amar, thanks for the info 👍 , I don't see myself going back to a gamepad after 5 years behind a steering wheel, if Forza wants to be classified as a sim, Turn10 should fix and balance properly the competitiveness of the game controllers.
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Have you tried setting the wheel to 270 degree mode on your steering wheel and using normal steering in-game. I have not used a wheel in Forza but as a guess I think that make you more competitive than any pad player especially as you will have ACL and more precision of the steering wheel over the pad.
 
When I used a pad I mapped the clutch right next to the gears and just pressed them simultaneously. Exactly the same as ACL. Hey perhaps I invented ACL lol.
 
saidur_ali
Have you tried setting the wheel to 270 degree mode on your steering wheel and using normal steering in-game.
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I would certainly recommend using "normal" as opposed to "simulation" mode.....the steering is kinda fubared in that mode as it makes it difficult to save the car if it begins to lose grip in the rear. I wouldn't use 270 steering.....it's too sensitive for most cars.....especially the race stuff like the high end R models. 540 is what I like to use......it's still a fast ratio but the car won't make drastic changes in direction with minimal wheel movement like 270.

In the end it comes down to user preference though.
 
saidur_ali
Have you tried setting the wheel to 270 degree mode on your steering wheel and using normal steering in-game. I have not used a wheel in Forza but as a guess I think that make you more competitive than any pad player especially as you will have ACL and more precision of the steering wheel over the pad.
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I have the CSR set to 180º mode when playing to Forza and I use normal steering in-game, it works fine, IMO it's the most similar handling compared to a G25 and that's what I'm used to.

This joypad steering buffer, in my opinion, is similar to the GT5 active steering, I've given a try to that joypad (I suck badly with that Xbox gamepad) but I see there's more grip when exiting a curve, with the steering wheel I've to fight constantly with the oversteering and the throttle.

The steering wheel is not as competitive as a joypad in Forza, top ten in the leaderboards are full of joypad users, ACL is as fast as button clutch with a joypad, there's no advantage when using the ACL new feature, the only advantage I see in a steering wheel versus a joypad is the steering precision, pedal input should be an advantage too but that joypad steering buffer simply overcomes any skill with pedal inputs.
 
The steering wheel is not as competitive as a joypad in Forza, top ten in the leaderboards are full of joypad users, ACL is as fast as button clutch with a joypad, there's no advantage when using the ACL new feature, the only advantage I see in a steering wheel versus a joypad is the steering precision, pedal input should be an advantage too but that joypad steering buffer simply overcomes any skill with pedal inputs.

This has been my feeling for a long time. Pad users hate to hear it.
 

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