Getting punished for using a wheel in Forza 4

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hennessey861
Honestly I am getting sick to death of Forza 4, the wheel support is shockingly bad and it shows no sign of getting updated any time soon. My biggest problem is the lack of 900 degree support, the rotation only works for about 90 degrees and then it becomes mute. That is very unrealistic. The next major problem is the cheating that goes on in Rivals mode, the faster guys are constantly going wide onto the grass and curbs to get a wider entry into the corner, try doing that with a Fanatec GT2 and the wheel will start tearing your arms off lol which is realistic. But is that fair, control pad users can cheat there way to faster times. The next one is the clutch support in the game, it should be banned for control pad users. I have to change gear like you would in a car, a control pad user flicks his/her thumb. With the official wheels to use with forza you think the would have better wheel support, I am starting to save for a PC so I can play sims where you don't get punished for using a wheel
 
Your getting punished for using a wheel. I'm getting put down for using a pad. Tough world.
 
Im kinda with you there hennessey. The learning curve is pretty tough on the wheel..If I remember right we bought a wheel about the same time. I have mixed emotions about it. I have more emersion with the wheel but I seem to be ALOT slower with it too....
 
the faster guys are constantly going wide onto the grass and curbs...control pad users can cheat there way to faster times.
Aren't the top-end wheels adjustable? Can't you essentially mute the force-feedback, or even unplug it? Then you'd kill the arm-wrestling and still have more steering control than any controller user.

There is and will always be a way to cheat anything.

The next one is the clutch support in the game, it should be banned for control pad users. I have to change gear like you would in a car, a control pad user flicks his/her thumb.
Why is "Manual w/Clutch" thought of as being so easy for a controller? I don't get it.

Upshifts are fine, but in order to downshift properly you have to juggle two triggers and two buttons at once. I can heel-toe downshift all day long on a PC sim with a wheel (or in a car) but I can't wrap my head around it on the XB360 gamepad. It's so much easier to shift smoothly on a wheel/pedal set. Do controller users just accept the shock to the drivetrain and live with it?

Also, personally I think driving shifting a manual transmission is just as simple as flicking your thumb. A few more calories burned maybe, but it's not complicated.
 
You can keep up in the end it just takes a lot of practice. I have been using the wheel for a couple of months now and cant keep up with my old controller times yet. But however I am getting closer all the time I think another month or so I will back up with my former controller based self and having much more fun.
 
Im kinda with you there hennessey. The learning curve is pretty tough on the wheel..If I remember right we bought a wheel about the same time. I have mixed emotions about it. I have more emersion with the wheel but I seem to be ALOT slower with it too....

I think hennessey has had his wheel longer than you, but I could be wrong...also, it took me a few months to equal my pad times with my wheel. I tried 900 degrees on my GT2 when the game first came out and it didn't work for me....now I use 540 with sim-steering and I'm comfortable with that. I've raced hennesssey several times and he is very fast....it surprises me that he isn't comfortable with the way the game handles 900 degree wheel settings because it doesn't show in his performance on the track.
 
Why is "Manual w/Clutch" thought of as being so easy for a controller? I don't get it.

Upshifts are fine, but in order to downshift properly you have to juggle two triggers and two buttons at once.
I can heel-toe downshift all day long on a PC sim with a wheel (or in a car) but I can't wrap my head around it on the XB360 gamepad. It's so much easier to shift smoothly on a wheel/pedal set. Do controller users just accept the shock to the drivetrain and live with it?

Also, personally I think driving shifting a manual transmission is just as simple as flicking your thumb. A few more calories burned maybe, but it's not complicated.

My friend, help is at hand, suffer no more :)
Go to your controller configuration and choose 'Default layout 1' and scroll down to where it says 'switch handbrake/clutch'. Choose 'yes'.

Now your clutch is on the A button, and all you have to do is use your thumb to press A with either B or X to shift with a clutch and your forefingers never have to leave the triggers to do all that juggling :)

I've heard very silly people who obviously haven't tried this say 'how can mashing two buttons be easier?' LOL is all I have to say to those guys :lol:
 
If using a controller for shifting manual with clutch should be banned cause it is unrealistic, with that logic, shouldn't controller use be banned all together? Last time I checked, my car had 3 pedals, a wheel and a stick. I don't see any of those on a controller.

And thanks for the tip peeety. I am about tapped out with my skill level. I just switched back to sim steering and need just a little more to keep up with my fastest team members. I hope your button switch method does the trick.
 
I have had the wheel about a year Tee, I wouldn't say I am uncomfortable. Its just the more I play, the more these little problems are annoying me. I can't use anything other than 900 as it feels to twitchy and I have a smooth driving style. Any ways hope to see you at PCS on sqturday :)
 
I have had the wheel about a year Tee, I wouldn't say I am uncomfortable. Its just the more I play, the more these little problems are annoying me. I can't use anything other than 900 as it feels to twitchy and I have a smooth driving style. Any ways hope to see you at PCS on sqturday :)

I'll be there Saturday....if the wife lets me. :lol: She'll be home with me Saturday and she's super jealous of my videogames. :p
 
I can understand that scratchiong the clutch support for controllers would (kinda) make sense, as it is insanely easy to use it. If you can drive with the manual, you can drive with the clutch, since you can just hit A and X or B simultaneously without any additional learning required... Problem is, the auto clutch sucks quite badly and banning it would put controller users pretty far behind. It's too significant of punishment.

About the issue of running wide: Everyone can dial down their FFB at will, at any time, if it isn't about the experience but the fastest possible lap times. What's T10 supposed to do? Make the pad electrocute the player to simulate the severe effect of running wide at high speeds?
 
I agree with the lack of support, as the main wheel I used for GT4 was the Driving Force Pro which is not supported at all, wish it was, I was forced to buy a 90-ish degree Madcatz wheel, because of school I couldn't really use it, so I have become god with the controller.

I use everything simulation besides steering, steering is more of a preference so I don't see the need in changing it.
 
I can understand that scratchiong the clutch support for controllers would (kinda) make sense, as it is insanely easy to use it. If you can drive with the manual, you can drive with the clutch, since you can just hit A and X or B simultaneously without any additional learning required... Problem is, the auto clutch sucks quite badly and banning it would put controller users pretty far behind. It's too significant of punishment.

About the issue of running wide: Everyone can dial down their FFB at will, at any time, if it isn't about the experience but the fastest possible lap times. What's T10 supposed to do? Make the pad electrocute the player to simulate the severe effect of running wide at high speeds?

Electrocute them lol, maybe not go that far but how about invalidating the lap time for using those run off areas. I mean you can pretty much cut the whole of the hammer head corner on the topgear track.
 
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Without the run off area the track appears to be one car wide in parts. Not fun for multicar racing.
 
5935199.jpg


Without the run off area the track appears to be one car wide in parts. Not fun for multicar racing.

I was taking more about rivals mode time trials where the faster guys are cutting out the first part of the corner with no penalty
 
I agree that the lack of support for Fanatec wheels has been shocking.
Didn't the update in December (I think) do anything to improve 900 degree steering?
 
Hennesey and deadlydc, what settings are you using? I have a GT2 using 900 degree steering and it feels pretty good to me.
 
The 900 degree steering seems to work fairly well except in counter steer situtations when set to simulation mode. I normally use 600 degree most of the time as I find I am faster on tracks with quick corners using this setting. I have not tried the GT2 but I do have the Turbo S which is pretty much the same thing. Currently using the Elite wheel with CS pedals. The Elite is nice on Forza in that you don;t have to deal with pressing a stupid button for a clutch, it can be set to auto clutch with the shifter paddles.

The whole "Manual Clutch" system in Forza is stupid. There is no way a human can press a manual clutch shift and release as smoothly nor as fast as a computer controlled auto clutch which of course is why they have them now on so many high end cars. I feel sorry for the guys who like to drive with an Auto trans.

The penalty system in Forza is also pretty stupid, It takes 100s of laps to learn where you can an can not drive without having your lap disqualified. Some places you can drive in areas which should clearly be a penalty and others you will get a penalty just for clipping a rumble strip which is totally legal in real world racing. Not to mention that the penalty system they use has no effect on the outcome of online races.

The guys at Turn 10 really need to look at GT5 and some other racing sims to see how this should be handled.
 
Ima have to agree with Henney on this one too. Pad user seem to think that wheel users are faster.... I thought he was joking. It take little effort for pad users to drive and wheel users exhaust way to much energy to keep up. I dont know if Turn 10 would do anything b/c most of the users uses controllers. I guess once everyone else catches up with the wheel users than we can race on a level playing field. With that said, the wheel is so much of a better playing experience and thats what I enjoy the most. My lap times are important to me, but the experience is what I paid for...


And Henney is FAST AS CRAP.....
 
The whole "Manual Clutch" system in Forza is stupid. There is no way a human can press a manual clutch shift and release as smoothly nor as fast as a computer controlled auto clutch which of course is why they have them now on so many high end cars.QUOTE]

Do you mean that its stupid to play with the clutch pedal?

Or do you mean its stupid to have a manual clutch option if you can use auto clutch?
 
Ima have to agree with Henney on this one too. Pad user seem to think that wheel users are faster.... I thought he was joking. It take little effort for pad users to drive and wheel users exhaust way to much energy to keep up. I dont know if Turn 10 would do anything b/c most of the users uses controllers. I guess once everyone else catches up with the wheel users than we can race on a level playing field. With that said, the wheel is so much of a better playing experience and thats what I enjoy the most. My lap times are important to me, but the experience is what I paid for...


And Henney is FAST AS CRAP.....

How is driving with a wheel exhausting? If you are driving correctly, you should barely have to move the wheel at all... If you are having to counter steer you are already too slow to even get a vote. (For a specific lap, I'm not saying fast drivers never countersteer, everyone messes up occasionally)

I don't have data or anything to back it up, but there is no way pad users in general are faster than wheel users. No way. If they are, then something is seriously 🤬 up about this game.
 
I've just been in the Top Gear office and they use an old MS Wheel to set their times also. Even the BBC isn't made of money.
 
Honestly I am getting sick to death of Forza 4, the wheel support is shockingly bad and it shows no sign of getting updated any time soon. My biggest problem is the lack of 900 degree support, the rotation only works for about 90 degrees and then it becomes mute. That is very unrealistic.

So is sitting in front of the tv and traveling miles but never really moving or feeling any g-forces, we've adapted though.

The next major problem is the cheating that goes on in Rivals mode, the faster guys are constantly going wide onto the grass and curbs to get a wider entry into the corner, try doing that with a Fanatec GT2 and the wheel will start tearing your arms off lol which is realistic.

Turn down the FFB as suggested further up the thread.

But is that fair, control pad users can cheat there way to faster times. The next one is the clutch support in the game, it should be banned for control pad users. I have to change gear like you would in a car, a control pad user flicks his/her thumb. With the official wheels to use with forza you think the would have better wheel support, I am starting to save for a PC so I can play sims where you don't get punished for using a wheel

You can also button clutch on a wheel, you are not forced to do it the realistic way, that is your choice. If you think moving to PC will get you away from 'button clutching' think again. :lol:

Of all the control devices available for use in forza, the fanatec users have the most choice and flexibility, yet here we are :lol:

I don't have data or anything to back it up, but there is no way pad users in general are faster than wheel users. No way. If they are, then something is seriously 🤬 up about this game.

The games where one device has clear advantage over the other shows poor controller support in either direction (try playing iRacing/rfactor/etc on a xbox 360 or ps3 controller for a taste of this).

For every guy that is fast with a controller there is one just as fast with the wheel from what I have seen in this game, even up to the top ten fastest drivers. The difference/problem is, controller drivers outnumber wheel drivers by probably more than 10-1 on any console, so immediately the results are skewed.

Forza has the balance down pretty good, well as good as it can without gimping the experience for either group of players. The fact that there are wheel and controller drivers in the forza top twenty drivers are proof the difference is so minor it's non-existent.
 
Hope you're wrong, I find the CSR-E amazing, but I haven't been online as I just bought an xbox and forza 4 over the weekend - feedback seems VERY good; amazing really - but I run with sensitivity to OFF, and let the game handle the rotation - it's not 900', but certainly 360 - works well for me. I'll need a lot more practice before I consider myself quick anyhow.

I guess I can't see how you'd be quicker with a controller, all things being even - but I've been using a wheel forever so I'm quite terrible with a controller at this point. The lack of feel and precision I would think has to hurt even great controller users, no?

Also - I don't use the clutch, just the paddles - is there an advantage to using the clutch performance wise, or is that just a realism thing?
 
I use the Elite wheel. I took the pad out the other day for sh**s and giggles to run one of the S class Porshe cars.

To my surprise, I could turn the car in while braking! With my Elite, braking with left foot, using paddle shifters (same car) ....no way! What's up with that?

Probably old news...sorry. :guilty:
 
Hope you're wrong, I find the CSR-E amazing, but I haven't been online as I just bought an xbox and forza 4 over the weekend - feedback seems VERY good; amazing really - but I run with sensitivity to OFF, and let the game handle the rotation - it's not 900', but certainly 360 - works well for me. I'll need a lot more practice before I consider myself quick anyhow.

I guess I can't see how you'd be quicker with a controller, all things being even - but I've been using a wheel forever so I'm quite terrible with a controller at this point. The lack of feel and precision I would think has to hurt even great controller users, no?

Also - I don't use the clutch, just the paddles - is there an advantage to using the clutch performance wise, or is that just a realism thing?

The Elite is sweet....... for sure:cheers: Paddles set to "manual with clutch" and ACL ON should be the fastest. http://youtu.be/UJLc0s0eZnA
 

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