Give Pontiac or GMC the Axe? Saab and Hummer Too?

[YSSMAN]

From the "lets kill another brand" file:

This has been a big year for GM's organization alignment, with President Fritz Henderson opening up about the brand issue snafu and the appointment of four brand czars. HUMMER was meant to join forces with Cadillac and Saab in a premium channel, but while HUMMER is still in the family, it's apparently been put out on the lawn. GM Inside News (GMI) reports that GM is treating HUMMER as a goner, saying that the H4 program is on life support for handover to the next buyer, and the H3 GMT-700 program is kaput.

The bigger hearsay is that GM's board is considering euthanizing GMC or Pontiac. Those two brands were to be aligned in a brand channel with Buick (PBG). Getting rid of GMC could make some kind of sense, since it's entirely brand-engineered vehicles with some of the worst mileage numbers in the fleet. Shunning Pontiac would be a surprise to us since the Solstice and G8 have given it a nice brand awareness boost and it's got some products in the pipeline. If GMC or Pontiac did go, the GM board would consider folding Saturn into the PBG channel to maintain sales volume. In corporate-speak, we believe this is called GM's "gloves off" phase.

Here is the whole thread from one of my other favorite forums, GMI.

Should we place bets now?

(I'm including a poll here)

My guess is that we'll see GMC die, it seems to be the most-logical. Given that they sell only what isn't selling (ie, crossovers and SUVs), they would need either a radical makeover or a complete drop... And my guess is that GM doesn't want a two-model brand.

The Saab and Hummer rumors have been flying for a while as well, and again, as the GMI link shows, Hummer is pretty much done for. As for Saab, it seems like they're getting back on their feet again, so I can't see GM ditching it. But then again, we said the same thing about Jaguar and Aston Martin years ago...

So who do you think is going to go?

 

[kjb]

GMC seems logical especially since it seems like Pontiac is making a comeback. GMC is basically trucks and SUVs. I actually like the Pontiac line up especially the Solstice.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

They can't axe Pontiac. I said GMC, a brand entirely composed of trucks and SUVs doesn't seem possible in the years to come. Buick could be awesome if they got serious about it and stopped making these lame FWD models.

 

[nissan tuner]

Saturn/Pontiac is here to stay unless GM brings Vauxhall over

 

[Leonidae]

Chevy can go won't be a big loss, they're selling mostly korean cars elsewhere..

 

[buickgnx88]

GMC, since all they are are doubles of other GM brands. Alternatively, HUMMER or Buick. I'd say Chevy, Pontiac, Saturn, and Cadillac all should stay. Saab is iffy since they make cool cars, but they don't seem to be very popular.

 

[Brett]

I have never understood GMs thinking behind having the so called 'premium' brand of GMC; but then again, I have also been one to question the need for Acura, Lexus, and Infiniti brands in the United States (guess this does not apply as much, since Lexus is now marketed outside the United States).

With that said, I see GMC as the likely one to get the ax with the pretense that Hummer is already dead; otherwise, I would say Hummer. I cannot see GM killing Buick, as it is doing great in China. Also, I do not really see Pontiac or Saturn being dropped either. Finally, a bit of a case could be made for Saab, but I do not see that happening before GMC or Hummer.

 

[franz]

GMC ... simply waste of time!
What about Buick? It's pretty much overlapping what Cadillac offering

 

[Omnis]

Saab still makes cars?

I'd say get rid of GMC, but I like all the GMC models better than their Chevy counterparts, except for the Tahoe.

Seriously, though... axe Saab, and Hummer might as well go too since the market isn't looking for gas hogs.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

Chevy can go won't be a big loss, they're selling mostly korean cars elsewhere..

I wondered who would be silly enough to vote Chevrolet.

 

[Tornado]

GMC has a practical stranglehold over the commercial sector that not even Ford has ever been able to match. That article is quite innacurrate on GMCs positioning. Killing it off would throw all that away, as Chevrolet doesn't make any similar models. Furthermore, Saab makes one of GMs best cars, they just blew a bunch of money on the 9-4 and redesigned 9-3, and further streamlining of the brand should help cut losses.

I've been saying it since GM replaced the S series with the Ion and killed Oldsmobile: Saturn. The brand hasn't made a competent product that wasn't merely a rebadged Opel in nearly 7 years (and even then it was arguable). Furthermore, even the rebadged Opel products have done nothing for the sales of the brand, and everything in the Saturn lineup is already done better by one (or more!) brands in the GM portfolio. For every crappy Astra, you have a less crappy Cobalt that happens to be cheaper. For every comically clueless Sky, you have a slightly more focused Solstice. For every crappy, chintzy Vue, you have a nicer (if not any less ridiculously unfrugal) Enclave. For every Aura, you have a Malibu. Nothing in Saturn's future looks to change any of this, either.
Sadly, I don't see Saturn getting the axe, despite being the most logical choice; because GM has been steadfast in its insistence on wasting money on the brand after it realized no one thought it was good at what it was supposed to do. The most likely thing would be to dump (or at least heavily refocus) GMC and transfer the big vehicles over to Chevy branding, which may cause a fall out. Or it may not.

Strictly speaking, Buick is another logical choice. They have a grand total of three models, all of which compete directly with other GM cars. They have nothing coming in the pipeline from what I can see, with the big Zeta canceled. They currently cater to the exact same crowd that got Oldsmobile killed, and steal sales from Cadillacs most profitable models with the Enclave and Lucerne and steal sales from Chevy's Impala. It would be a shame to kill the best version of the W body, Lambda and H body platforms, though it honestly would make more sense to try to coax buyers into Cadillac dealers than to throw away the money spent on Saab or the market that GMC has.

So, Saturn would be my choice, followed by GMC/Buick (leaning slightly towards Buick) and then Saab.

 

[Joey D]

GMC should just make commercial trucks, Saab can go, Hummer can go as they aren't selling anymore, and Buick can go.

Saturn is still selling cars even though some of they are rather meh, Chevy is still a big brand in America so it's fine, Cadillac the same. Pontiac can only stay if they become Holden of North America, otherwise I don't see much use for them.

Really I think Hummer will be the first to go.

===

Leonidae why would you say Chevy would get the axe? That makes no sense at all. It's the biggest division of GM.

 

[Jim Prower]

^ Likely to be antagonistic.

Hummer's the most pointless brand at the moment, but GMC get cuts, too.

 

[Joey D]

^ Likely to be antagonistic.

Not really, it's a pointless statement he made. The poll clear was "which division will get the axe" not which one you hope will. GM will never axe Chevy as they are the main brand in the US and sell as well as an American company can here.

 

[mustangGT90210]

^ Likely to be antagonistic.

Hummer's the most pointless brand at the moment, but GMC get cuts, too.

GMC passenger vehicles outta get cut, and make GMC GM's Freightliner, so to speak. Then they don't have to worry about CAFE restrictions either because they would be commercial only.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

GMC passenger vehicles outta get cut, and make GMC GM's Freightliner, so to speak. Then they don't have to worry about CAFE restrictions either because they would be commercial only.

Makes sense. GMC pickups however still are "supposedly" nicer than comparable Chevs. They aren't really, but there's still that idea.

 

[Joey D]

Makes sense. GMC pickups however still are "supposedly" nicer than comparable Chevs. They aren't really, but there's still that idea.

Back in the day they were, GMC's had heavier duty components and were more of a work truck.

 

[nissan tuner]

one of the most useless models in the GM lineup

 

[Sniffs]

dude, hummer's allready for the chop. and Sweden would LOVE to have one of their lables back.

GM performace guys would strangle the company with their bare hands if either Chevy or Pontiac went. Saturn and Caddy are having a resurgence

GMC really does have a stranglehold on the "equipment truck" sector

my vote was Buick WAY back when they were waffling over wether to kill Olds, just when it had found it's Niche and Style again.

 

[YSSMAN]

Back in the day they were, GMC's had heavier duty components and were more of a work truck.

Right, and that ended promptly in the 1990s. My Grandfather has a 2007 Yukon, and I often cannot understand why he would have chosen it over a Tahoe. The simple reasoning is because he ended up getting a better deal on it (clearing out stock on the dealer lots), but nevertheless, at full price he would have pretty much ended up paying $2000 more for what is essentially a Tahoe LTZ with a chrome grille and some more sound-deadening material.

What it comes down to with GMC is that despite being known for "tough trucks" (or whatever), their slice of market share is minuscule compared to what is split between Chevrolet and Ford, particularly when it comes to the full-size pickup line. The rest of their stuff flounders about in markets where their own siblings outclass it, or the competition is quite obviously better.

Sure, they do have new products in the pipe (the GMC Terrain, ie Saturn VUE comes to mind), but that can be reflected easily to another brand (already has, Saab 9-4X and Cadillac BRX --> SRX). There just isn't much of a reason, really at all, to have a brand completely made out of products that do not sell.

...And for that matter, I'm sure GM would easily ship these "premium" parts over to Chevrolet and make the best of it...

 

[Tornado]

The rest of their stuff flounders about in markets where their own siblings outclass it, or the competition is quite obviously better.

?

There just isn't much of a reason, really at all, to have a brand completely made out of products that do not sell.

What are you talking about? GMC has more sales than any other brand in GMs entire North American fleet other than Chevrolet. Out of GMs entire fleet, GMC and Saturn were the only ones to post sales increases all last year (Buick sales, in the mean time, dropped 23%, despite the arrival on the Enclave, which means Buick lost more sales last year than Hummer did). No, the GMC versions of Chevrolet trucks don't sell as well. But they still sell. Are you suggesting that GM throw away those 500,000 sales a year just because Ford and Chevy sell more? Since GMC obviously isn't selling anything, should GM scrap every brand they have but Chevrolet?

 

[YSSMAN]

With the market obviously shifting towards smaller cars, no matter how well the Sierra or the Yukon may sell, I don't see a reason to keep the brand around when there isn't anyone out there looking at those types of vehicles. Based on the sheer level of volume between Chevrolet and GMC, I'd be willing to bet that "loyal" GMC owners would be happy to switch to Chevrolet if the proper "luxury" trims were applied to the trucks. Same with the SUVs.

What I'm getting at is that GMC doesn't serve much of a purpose in the GM product catalog if people stop buying trucks, and we're already seeing that happen. If GM was to cut the truck line from Chevrolet, fine, lets keep GMC. But otherwise, whats the point?

 

[Brett]

With the market obviously shifting towards smaller cars, no matter how well the Sierra or the Yukon may sell, I don't see a reason to keep the brand around when there isn't anyone out there looking at those types of vehicles. Based on the sheer level of volume between Chevrolet and GMC, I'd be willing to bet that "loyal" GMC owners would be happy to switch to Chevrolet if the proper "luxury" trims were applied to the trucks. Same with the SUVs.

I have yet to figure out why GM has GMC vehicles that are slightly reworked Chevrolet trucks. It would seem to make more sense to have a different trim level with the Chevrolet vehicles for more luxury.

What I'm getting at is that GMC doesn't serve much of a purpose in the GM product catalog if people stop buying trucks, and we're already seeing that happen. If GM was to cut the truck line from Chevrolet, fine, lets keep GMC. But otherwise, whats the point?

I cannot really see GM cutting the truck line from Chevrolet. I think that would hurt them far more than cutting GMC and adding a new trim line to the Chevrolets.

 

[V1P3R]

It's thinking like this as to why GM has been going down and should go down soon... I mean seriously?

Pontiac is the "performance" or "racy" sector.

GMC is all commercial.

I'd have said lose Saab a looooooooong time ago (who cares what happens to them too).

I went with Buick because they are the second most worthless brand behind Olds (yes I know they are no more).

Hummer is gonna kill itself so who cares, funny part is no body will buy them either.

It would be pretty stupid to kill Saturn since they are the cars for the "poor". lol

Chevy, well... they are screwed either way.

I still say them just slapping different badges on the same car is the most retarded idea.

 

[nissan tuner]

I'd have said lose Saab a looooooooong time ago (who cares what happens to them too).

this is getting a little ridiculous. can you name 3 good reasons as to why GM would throw away the saab 9-3 or Turbo X?

 

[Tornado]

With the market obviously shifting towards smaller cars, no matter how well the Sierra or the Yukon may sell, I don't see a reason to keep the brand around when there isn't anyone out there looking at those types of vehicles.

The main problem with that point of view is that they are selling (and will no doubt continue to as gas prices rise. More on that in a second), and there would have to be a truly Epic drop for GMC to come anywhere near the piss-poor sales of Buick. To the tune of 320,000 sales. Despite rising gas prices and economic recession, GMC posted a net gain in sales last year (while Buick sales dropped more than Hummers). Regardless of whether or not the future will hold firm for GMC, at the moment they are making far more sales than any other GM brand despite only selling trucks. If Chevrolet moves all of their future trucks onto the Zeta platform as the rumours say, why should GMC be scrapped as a brand instead of being focused on normal light duty trucks which is there traditional strong suit anyways?

And while you are talking about the pointlessness of GMCs sales position despite the fact that they are still moving nearly the most product and have a monopoly over commercial vehicles, what exactly is the sales position of Buick? That is an entire brand of cars that simply steals sales from other GM cars, and the brand also sits in the exact same position Oldsmobile was in, except worse.
They only have one SUV, yes, but it is also one that will no doubt tank when truck sales do because of its pathetic mileage. Considering how much of a sales success the Enclave was (and it was still outsold 3-1 by its GMC equivalent), how bad off do you think Buick will be when it stops selling well? Buick's entire range is made up of heavy fuel sucking barges, so you can't say that if GMC sales start tanking outside of its commercial sector that Buick sales will stay nice and rosy. Even though Buick only has 1 SUV, it wouldn't surprise me if the average fuel economy for the brand was only a couple of MPG higher compared to the popular models in GMCs range (Acadia, Yukon and Sierra). Hell, GMC sold more Sierras last year (which averages only a 1 to 2 MPG difference compared to the Lucerne, LaCrosse, and Enclave) than Buick sold overall. So why do you think that high gas prices will only effect GMC and not completely decimate Buick as well?

 

[Leonidae]

because opel/vauxhall are probably better known brands and their cars are basically the same.

 

[V1P3R]

this is getting a little ridiculous. can you name 3 good reasons as to why GM would throw away the saab 9-3 or Turbo X?

1. Cuz it's a Saab erm... GM
2. Cuz at the price of a Saab, I could get just as good or better car from another company.
3. Uhh... cuz I like good looking cars.

 

[Tornado]

Just one thing:

2. Cuz at the price of a Saab, I could get just as good or better car from another company.

That is true. And wholly meaningless as it applies to pretty much all GM cars. You also can't find a better car at GM for the price of a 9-3.

 

[forza2.0]

woops voted caddy when meant to vote for buick!