Glad to see cockpit view steering wheels are stilL COMATOSE

  • Thread starter Thread starter xSNAKEx
  • 44 comments
  • 5,242 views
Keep your eyes on the road, not the hands ;).

This does not affect gameplay at all so don't worry about it. Its not a big deal anyway.

I'm tired of hearing this same old cop out every single time somebody finds fault with something in GT unrelated to the physics. Personally I don't consider it a big deal either, but the OP does and he makes a valid point. Just because it's secondary to gameplay does not make it irrelevant, especially when realism is Polyphony's number one goal. It's this kind of thinking that holds back progress.
 
Well then my friend you are grossly unobservant. If you have a G27 and you think the rotation is "pretty close" and top of this in the video of real life vs gt6 you think that its "matched the same amount of rotation", then it seems it would be nigh on impossible to make you get this simple concept, because your face is being shoved right at it and you cant see it. I guess will address you one more time this post then I give up. Who knows eh?
Unobservant and uninterested are two entirely different things. When i first played Forza, before GT5 came out, and i saw the wheel didn't turn the same amount when the back let loose, it slightly bugged me. But i got over it. When i got my wheel and GT5, i never once paid attention to the wheel because it didn't matter at that point. The novelty of a cockpit view had worn off, and so i was paying attention to my driving.

However, i just tried driving and watching the in-game wheel, and the rotation of course wasn't the same on some corners. The rate that it turned at though was pretty close though (again, i'm saying pretty close, you're acting like i'm saying it's perfect). I think that's why it never really bugged me.


Not only is it a perfect example, but you are totally missing the point. Its got nothing at all do with the game trying to recreate what happened based of telemetry. Oh god you actually the discrepancies are because the technology of the telemetry is not perfect *facepalm*.
Even if the way the data captures WAS perfect, GT6 would still be off by a huge amount because of the way the wheel is programmed to rotate. IT UNDER rotates according to where the wheels are rotating.

i,e The IN GAME wheel moves differently to where the IN GAME wheels on the outside of the car are pointing.
No, it's still a stupid example. The one Zer0 posted was much better. That shows directly the difference in steering angle and that the in game one lags behind just slightly. The one you posted has way too many variables to be considered a good example.



Its very rare come across some "common" sense these days.
Ah yes, ad hominem. Excellent debating technique.

Anyway, here is a nice video that I thought was worth posting.

Pay attention Colonoles loki The game on the left has done it correcntly


I'm not going to deny that Assetto Corsa does it better. I'm just saying that it's not that big of an issue in GT. Of all of the things that you could complain about with the last two iterations, this seems like a fairly silly thing to get hung up on. I honestly would have preferred them not having a moving steering wheel if it meant they got some of the other things right. I've never really noticed what you are complaining about because it never really mattered. I saw the steering wheel move, it seemed close enough given that it was only moving 180 degrees, i don't pay much attention to it, therefore it doesn't bother me. Could it be better? Definitely. Would i rather see PD tackle something that matters more. Definitely.
 
This... this is a terrible explanation for a stupid point.
alright give me a break, english is not my first language
my point is that according to the angle of the steering wheel you can know whats the steering angle of your front wheels, I feel that you can steer better if you have the steering wheel as an extra reference point
 
There is no 1:1 steering to animation mapping in GT6 and there was no in GT5. In GT5 That could have actually worked but now there seems to be so much lag in animation in GT6 that even with small angle animation can not keep up with the steering input.
 
Unobservant and uninterested are two entirely different things. When i first played Forza, before GT5 came out, and i saw the wheel didn't turn the same amount when the back let loose, it slightly bugged me. But i got over it. When i got my wheel and GT5, i never once paid attention to the wheel because it didn't matter at that point. The novelty of a cockpit view had worn off, and so i was paying attention to my driving.

Well This is probably the reason we dont see eye to eye. You think that having the wheel in a 1:1 ratio is a "novelty".

Yes I agree unobservant and uninterested are two different things, but you are the former. You specifically said its "close" or "matches" when in fact its nowhere near. Being off by a factor of over 3x is not close or matching by any definition. Unless ofcourse you mean the wheel turns in the right direction at least.

However, i just tried driving and watching the in-game wheel, and the rotation of course wasn't the same on some corners. The rate that it turned at though was pretty close though (again, i'm saying pretty close, you're acting like i'm saying it's perfect). I think that's why it never really bugged me.

So after all these years of playing the game you had to "just" go and watch the wheel now? I thought you were just UN-interested and not unobservant? So you should have known about it but not cared. Oops?



No, it's still a stupid example. The one Zer0 posted was much better. That shows directly the difference in steering angle and that the in game one lags behind just slightly. The one you posted has way too many variables to be considered a good example.

The one zero posted is good because it shows directly how much more you turn your sim wheel vs the in game wheel does. But this should be the first thing you noitce playing with your 900 degree wheel anyway.
The video I posted takes this a step further and shows how much the wheel really needs to be turned in real life in the same car and track.


Ah yes, ad hominem. Excellent debating technique.

Please. Everything Ive said has been fair and logical. You've just come out bassically saying "it doesn't bother me so your opinion doesn't matter"


I'm not going to deny that Assetto Corsa does it better. I'm just saying that it's not that big of an issue in GT. Of all of the things that you could complain about with the last two iterations, this seems like a fairly silly thing to get hung up on. I honestly would have preferred them not having a moving steering wheel if it meant they got some of the other things right. I've never really noticed what you are complaining about because it never really mattered. I saw the steering wheel move, it seemed close enough given that it was only moving 180 degrees, i don't pay much attention to it, therefore it doesn't bother me. Could it be better? Definitely. Would i rather see PD tackle something that matters more. Definitely
.

Lol complete nonsense. What irks me the most is PD pay careful attention to interior details like gadgets, dials, screens and clocks, and if any of these are even slightly wrong people will and HAVE complained about this stuff, and I'm sure you'd "thumbs up" it and say yea yea! what an outrage the clock doesn't blink correctly in the Toyota Prius 07 Fanny Pack edition! PD FIX IT.

The have been HUGE complaints about for example about Jagged Shadows in cockpit view. Shadows that have jagged edges MATTER more than an an issue like the steering wheel being under a state of complete and utter ambiguous movements?

sif.
 
Yeah I really don't know why GT and Forza still don't have hand over hand animations. Tons of other sims do it fine and they don't have a fraction of the budget of these giants.

These 'Tons of other car Sims' have a car count of what, 50-100 cars? Imagine having to create, bug check and tune the steering animations for 300-1200. It's a waste of time for games where the majority of people don't even drive in this view. Be thankful this isn't a codemasters (Grid) game.

I do wish it was there though.
 
These 'Tons of other car Sims' have a car count of what, 50-100 cars? Imagine having to create, bug check and tune the steering animations for 300-1200. It's a waste of time for games where the majority of people don't even drive in this view. Be thankful this isn't a codemasters (Grid) game.

I do wish it was there though.

They already have the wheels fully modelled. This would literally take next to no effort. IF making the hand animations look presentable is too hard, it would be more than reasonable to just allow the driver to be removed from modelling and just have the wheel alone turning in a 1:1 ratio. It can be accessible by a secret menu. Holding Select whilst going into wheel options or something.
 
alright give me a break, english is not my first language
my point is that according to the angle of the steering wheel you can know whats the steering angle of your front wheels, I feel that you can steer better if you have the steering wheel as an extra reference point
Okay I see your point, but personally it doesn't matter to me. To each their own.
 
They already have the wheels fully modelled. This would literally take next to no effort.

How do you know this? Sure the wheels are modelled. That isn't the issue. Bug testing to make sure every rotation for each car is correct is time, making sure the hands do not clip the wheel is time. Fixing any issues that arise is time. These things take time. We already know they can do it because of GT5 prologue. They should be the ones to judge how much effort it would be. Obviously they thought it wasn't worth the effort for GT5 or GT6.

I'd rather they had even given decent cockpit views for the other 1000 cars. Again time wasn't on their side.

I will agree removing the driver is also an option.
 
Well This is probably the reason we dont see eye to eye. You think that having the wheel in a 1:1 ratio is a "novelty".

Yes I agree unobservant and uninterested are two different things, but you are the former. You specifically said its "close" or "matches" when in fact its nowhere near. Being off by a factor of over 3x is not close or matching by any definition. Unless ofcourse you mean the wheel turns in the right direction at least.
If you would reply to and read my whole response, i clarified what i meant. It's close enough considering it only turns 180. At the beginning of steering, up to around 45 degrees i think, it's very close, and then from there on out it lags way behind. That being said, like i said earlier, i pretty much never have to turn the wheel more than 180 degrees when i play, so it's always been "fairly close" under most circumstances.



So after all these years of playing the game you had to "just" go and watch the wheel now? I thought you were just UN-interested and not unobservant? So you should have known about it but not cared. Oops?
Being uninterested, i have not noticed it for quite some time. As a result i wanted to be sure i had a clear vision of what i was talking about so i could actually respond to this thread. If you're uninterested in something but have noticed it years before, that means that your memory can't be hazy? Makes sense....





The one zero posted is good because it shows directly how much more you turn your sim wheel vs the in game wheel does. But this should be the first thing you noitce playing with your 900 degree wheel anyway.
The video I posted takes this a step further and shows how much the wheel really needs to be turned in real life in the same car and track.
Unless i didn't care to pay attention to that, and cared more about paying attention to the other cars and the track....

Also, no, your's is still a stupid example. If you look at any other instance of this technology the steering won't be the same since it's trying to recreate what a human did based on a small amount of data. As such the steering already won't be the same. The only thing that could be taken from that small bit is possibly the amount of steering angle, but it's still a bad example. Zer0 has the best example, hands down.




Please. Everything Ive said has been fair and logical. You've just come out bassically saying "it doesn't bother me so your opinion doesn't matter"
Yes, because implying i don't have common sense is not ad hominem.... You're right, apparently it is rare to come across these days.

Also, for the record, i never said your opinion doesn't matter.


.

Lol complete nonsense. What irks me the most is PD pay careful attention to interior details like gadgets, dials, screens and clocks, and if any of these are even slightly wrong people will and HAVE complained about this stuff, and I'm sure you'd "thumbs up" it and say yea yea! what an outrage the clock doesn't blink correctly in the Toyota Prius 07 Fanny Pack edition! PD FIX IT.

The have been HUGE complaints about for example about Jagged Shadows in cockpit view. Shadows that have jagged edges MATTER more than an an issue like the steering wheel being under a state of complete and utter ambiguous movements?

sif.
Actually i wouldn't be one of those people. In GT5 i thought the snow and rain graphics were crap, the shadows left a ton to be desired, and when smoke surrounded the cars it made them jagged and ugly. But i didn't complain about these things because they didn't matter. What did matter was that the AI was horrid and there were so many things missing from the game that shouldn't have been.

I would gladly take every single cockpit view being a standard view from GT5 if that meant they got all of the other things that matter right. What i'm seeing inside the car doesn't matter. Seeing the windows and what's outside of them does. Having the steering wheel on screen not rotate the right amount sucks, but of all of the things wrong with these games, it's definitely one of the items that should be on the bottom of the list. That's all i'm saying.
 
Not sure if this is the case, but maybe it has something to do with the shifting animations?
It would look strange if you're reaching over for the wheel with your right arm and the player decides to shift at the same time....the driver in the game wouldn't be able to turn and bring his hand down to the shifter. The whole animation would look funky. I prefer it the way it is.
 
270/180 degrees animations might be a legacy of old times when wheels didn't know how to turn more than 270 :D

But , why there is no 900 degrees animation in console games today? Simply, they need to cut resources somewhere > so , Is It 900 deg. wheel animation essential . Yes it is to 10 % , 5% , 1% , 0,5% of people ? But others ? Nope . So they cut hand over hand animations to save memory ,whatever. Would I like 900 animation > yes. But not on expense of anything else in a game .
Some other devs (you know who) decided that cockpit cam is even not needed anymore- only 5 % people plays It. They put those resources into more shinny graphics elsewhere,simple.
 
This vid is a perfect example of this quite large issue.



(It's also just a cool vid, that shows how good GT is in general in a lot of ways too.)
 
Back