GM Builds their own mini-Nordschleife - looks like it would make a great test track

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though much smaller, the intent is the same.

Article:
http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content...=carnews&loc_code=index&content_code=03634144

June 18, 2004
GM Builds a mini-Nordschleife for U.S. - based testing

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Situated in Germany's Eifel Mountains, the 14.1-mile, 170-plus turn Nürburgring Nordschleife (North Loop) hosted 20 Formula One races between 1951 and 1976. After Niki Lauda's Ferrari crashed and caught fire there in '76, F1 deemed the circuit too dangerous, but for years now it has served as the ultimate production car development course. The 'Ring's unparalleled combination of high-speed corners, severe braking zones and vertigo-inducing elevation changes offers engineers an extreme challenge on which to hone their products. Plus, the roads around Castle Nurburg are convenient for European carmakers, especially German ones like Porsche, BMW and Mercedes-Benz. It is, however, decidedly less so for U.S. or Asian manufacturers. GM was among those that decided it was worth the trip, especially since the arrival of Bob Lutz as product development czar.

Since '97, GM made three to four Nürburgring trips per year, for two to three weeks per trip, says Frank Taverna, engineering group manager for General Motors' prestige, performance and luxury cars. Cadillac's CTS and CTS-V, Chevrolet's 2005 Corvette and Saturn's Ion Redline were among the cars tested on such trips. "Now, we'll probably cut down to two trips per year, two weeks per trip," Taverna says.

GM hasn't capped its commitment to performance or slashed the budget. Instead, it has brought a piece of Nordschleife home, to its Milford (Michigan) Proving Ground. At 3.6-miles in its longest configuration, GM's new $7 million Milford Road Course opened in December and combines what engineers deem Nürburgring's most useful features with those of several U.S. circuits. From the German track's banked Karussell to Virginia International Raceway's esses, the course (which the media dubbed "the Lutzitsring") allows engineers to dial in cars for less money and in less time than before.

"The biggest advantage is having all these features added up at one track," Taverna says. "In the past, if we had, say, an oil starvation problem, we'd have to think about the best place to go. [Spring Mountain Motorsports Park in Pahrump, Nevada] is a good place to do that. Higher-speed stuff, you'd go to VIR, and to Germany for the body-motion stuff. You couldn't really do it all at one track."

With 20 turns, 98 feet of elevation change and at least five commonly used configurations, the new course impresses from behind the wheel. The MRC is so new that Taverna isn't sure of all the layout possibilities-and minor alterations were being made as late as Memorial Day.

GM allowed us several laps on its own North Loop, a low-speed, 12-turn layout that includes the 25-degree high-banked left-hander that is nearly twice as steep as the 'Ring's Karussell. It provides sensations akin to driving inside-to use the development engineer's term-a toilet bowl. It's a 16.2-foot vertical drop from the top of the banking to the bottom.

Later, we drove the C6 Corvette for several evaluation laps on a different configuration and found it really stretched both car and driver to their limits. (Patience, dear reader-we're not allowed to comment on the Vette until Aug. 1.) While GM hasn't let us loose on the full course, Taverna says the most commonly used 2.9-mile version allows a C5 Corvette Z06 to reach 155 mph, after which it must brake hard for a downhill decreasing-radius turn.

It's a tough test, but if "validated in Milford" does not excite you quite as much as "developed at the Nürburgring," there are still those two trips to Germany per year to give street cred to GM's cars. Thanks to the MRC, engineers expect to be better prepared when they arrive. "Those trips will become more of a check-off ride," Taverna says. "When we develop a car here, we expect it to be able to go over there and function just fine."
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Looks good 👍 but it can't live up to the real thing!
 
it looks too safe to be a mini nurburgring.

part of the thrill of driving round the ring is how little run-off areas you have, so it forces you to concentrate.

it doesnt look to have many high speed corners either.

complex string rules this track.
 
complex string is too flat, and the turns aren't linked in any kind of exciting format.
 
looks nice, i wonder though who came up with the 170 plus turn rumor - there are only 73, no more, no less.
 
They must've been referring to the full Nordschleife with the GP track included, it's still not 170+ but it's nearer, and if the track is for testing cars i believe they forgot that one of the good things about the ring for testing cars is the not so good pavement.

Been to Nordschleife and it's worth the trip, anytime 👍
 
Why don't Chevy go to the REAL Nurburgring? I mean, take a ZO6 'Vette, mod if up, and take it to Nurburgring next year while the C6 (possible) can take on Le Mans the same weekend (does Nurburgring Nords and Le Mans go the same weekend?). That mini-Nordschli... that place... doesn't look bad for a test course. I don't think it's a real challenging one, but a nice one nonetheless.
 
JohnBM01
Why don't Chevy go to the REAL Nurburgring? I mean, take a ZO6 'Vette, mod if up, and take it to Nurburgring next year while the C6 (possible) can take on Le Mans the same weekend (does Nurburgring Nords and Le Mans go the same weekend?). That mini-Nordschli... that place... doesn't look bad for a test course. I don't think it's a real challenging one, but a nice one nonetheless.

John

found the following time for a 'vette on the Nurburgring

20,832 km 8,40 = 144 km/h Chevrolet Corvette -98 344 hp, 1998


Any time in the 8 min braket is considered good.

Try the following site for lap time for the 'ring

http://www.nordschleife.no/

The above is a link for the site I mainly use for 'ring lap times, enjoy.
 
It just looks like a regular (if rather large) automative 'proving ground' to me. I thought most countries had at least one of a respectable size that's used by everybody?
 
Ring_Berkut
They must've been referring to the full Nordschleife with the GP track included, it's still not 170+ but it's nearer, and if the track is for testing cars i believe they forgot that one of the good things about the ring for testing cars is the not so good pavement.

Been to Nordschleife and it's worth the trip, anytime 👍
Quote from Jackie Stewart

"It's one of the things dyslexia helps with. You visualise things in a different way from most people. I could tell you now every one of the 187 bends in the old Nurburgring track, where to brake, where to shift gear, the shape of every corner." It becomes clear why he won the grand prix there despite fog and rain in 1968 by four minutes. "A little over four minutes," he corrected himself.

If Jackie Stewart says it's 187 bends then that's good enough for me.
 
Greyout
complex string is too flat, and the turns aren't linked in any kind of exciting format.
You must not have gotten to the last half of the track then :rolleyes:
 
Sven
You must not have gotten to the last half of the track then :rolleyes:
It's still too flat, theres only that one section. But it's a great track for testing a cars performance if only you could get to different sections without driving all the way around.
 
Sven
You must not have gotten to the last half of the track then :rolleyes:

Oh yes, I almost forgot the 3 perfectly geometrical, symetrical hills spaced evently apart.
 
i dont just look at the vid in my last post (second fastest lap on the NS btw!)
 
toler
daan: i´d rather go with the offcial Nürburgring site, they run it, they should know. i should know too cos i´ve got about 50 laps under my belt. my respect to J. Steward but he seems to be wrong. 👍
I think the discrepancy may be the difference between a kink, corner and a bend. Jackie Stewart, as a racing driver, would take into consideration the slightest kink in the track.
 
Seems like a waste to me since GM has been testing all their new Cadillacs at the Nurburgring anyway...
 
Theres another nice bit of blackstuff that'd be cool in GT4.Test course #5???
 
daan
I think the discrepancy may be the difference between a kink, corner and a bend. Jackie Stewart, as a racing driver, would take into consideration the slightest kink in the track.

Bingo. We went through this in the Longer tracks are better? thread:

Eagle
The Official F1 site states 172 corners, so I ran with their figure: http://www.formula1.com/race/circuitdetail/720.html

However, this site says things a bit differently:

After a chequered history of many changes the hill-and-valley course is now 20.832km long with a total of 73 curves made up of 88 lefts and 84 rights.

Link: http://www.rrr2.de/~rainer/team-tschauder/nring/n-ring1e.htm
 
Well, just to clarify Jackie Stewart ran in the Old Nordschleife, it had 23km and a few more turns of course, the circuit has been modified and is currently under the configuration that some people have already posted in the thread.
 
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