GM buys 7% of PSA Peugeot Citroen

[Conza]

I just want to preface this with, I love PSA (or some of the older ones anyway, I drive a Peugeot 306), and I don't have too much good to say for GM, except recently with the latest Camaro, especially Jay Leno's twin turbo V6 version.

So I at first looked at this as 'bad for PSA' but perhaps I should be looking at this as 'good for GM'? Since GM was the one that invested in PSA, is it logical to conclude, that PSA will likely be providing the majority of the input into a new platform for some GM and PSA future cars? Imagine a 209 that shared a platform with a new form of an Astra or something? That would be good for GM, and let's face it, they should be able to provide some improvement to Peugeot as well (though if the 508/509 has a massive V8 in it, then they'd be going the wrong way).

Thoughts?

 

[peter_vod69]

I'd be great if the Americans could teach the French how to do styling which didn't look like it was inspired by Gerard Depardieu.

GM do a lot of good stuff these days, and Peugeot do a lot of semi-relevant, semi-competitive stuff. I can't see it being a bad thing for Peugeot, and they won't mess with the core brand values too much.

 

[1241Penguin]

Really? GM had the money to save Saab, but instead decided to get rid of it.

 

[SagarisGTB]

I'd be great if the Americans could teach the French how to do styling which didn't look like it was inspired by Gerard Depardieu.

I have the exact opposite opinion. GM cars look daft and oversized most of the time to me, especially Chevrolet, and Peugeot-Citroen have penned some fantastic looking cars the last few year, though with a few cars being over-styled in the hit-miss process. I much prefer the Peugeot styling direction, it's bolder and riskier, and if nothing, provides more colour for the highways of Europe. I don't mind how the 208 looks.

Really? GM had the money to save Saab, but instead decided to get rid of it.

Saab was never going to be profitable. Throwing money at Saab's life support was like flushing it down the toilet.

 

[homeforsummer]

Saab was never going to be profitable. Throwing money at Saab's life support was like flushing it down the toilet.

That's not quite true. Saab had the potential to be profitable, but GM had no real goal for the company and wasn't prepared to invest in a long-term plan.

The Peugeot thing is different, I suspect. Peugeot and Citroen aren't hugely profitable at the moment but they'll get an injection of cash, and GM will benefit from some of PSA's latest engine technology, I suspect diesels in particular which PSA has always been very good at.

 

[peter_vod69]

I have the exact opposite opinion. GM cars look daft and oversized most of the time to me, especially Chevrolet, and Peugeot-Citroen have penned some fantastic looking cars the last few year, though with a few cars being over-styled in the hit-miss process. I much prefer the Peugeot styling direction, it's bolder and riskier, and if nothing, provides more colour for the highways of Europe. I don't mind how the 208 looks.Saab was never going to be profitable. Throwing money at Saab's life support was like flushing it down the toilet.

OK, I will admit that the RCZ is a nice looking car, but it would be nicer still if it had a better-resolved nose. But stuff like the 308? The 307CC? the 207? You'd really have to want to buy a Peugeot to consider those ones over their direct competition. And yes, Citroen are turning out some nice looking cars, but I'd still be a little wary of their build quality.

That's not quite true. Saab had the potential to be profitable, but GM had no real goal for the company and wasn't prepared to invest in a long-term plan.

The problem with SAAB was that nobody (not even SAAB, and certainly not GM) knew exactly what their market position was supposed to be, so many assumed that they were just another not-as-good-as-BMW manufacturer that people only bought to be contrary.

 

[Conza]

OK, I will admit that the RCZ is a nice looking car, but it would be nicer still if it had a better-resolved nose. But stuff like the 308? The 307CC? the 207? You'd really have to want to buy a Peugeot to consider those ones over their direct competition. And yes, Citroen are turning out some nice looking cars, but I'd still be a little wary of their build quality.

The problem with SAAB was that nobody (not even SAAB, and certainly not GM) knew exactly what their market position was supposed to be, so many assumed that they were just another not-as-good-as-BMW manufacturer that people only bought to be contrary.

You know, I have a feeling that can't be true, and that Saab needs to be 'rested' for a decade, then revived once everyone gets bored of all the sameyness that will become from having effectively 5 major car nationalities (Volkswagen, Fiat, PSA, USA, JAPAN), and Saab made some of the greatest innovations.

If in 2020 they revive the 99 Turbo, it could be fantastic, by then, it'll have 300 BHP weigh sub 1000kgs, and have a LSD on the FWD system, then they could have the other (more) popular models for older customers as well.

 

[nitrorocks]

That's interesting.

 

[SuperShouden]

With what money? It should also be noted that the US government owns 50% of GM...who know owns a little bit of France....interesting.

Also...SAAB's problem, as explained on Top Gear, was they were spending WAY too much money making cars. Sure, they 9-series were good cars, but GM wanted a lot of them to be Saab badged versions of other cars...and Saab ignored orders from GM, and eventually, not GM nor Spyker could keep them alive.

But this is about GM buying Citroen Peugeot...I wonder if GM plans to buy DeLorean again and stick one of the Citroen Peugeot engines in it....again.

 

[Jondot]

Wasn't sure I liked the idea of GM and PSA sharing a platform. Then I had a little think.

For a start, let's face it at this point - none of Peugeot or Citroen's lineup is especially well endowed in the platform department. Nothing since the OP's 306 has been particularly praised for the way it handles, for example. Which isn't really all that surprising, when you think about it - aside from the pair that aren't actually French, most things bigger than the C3 are sitting on a chopped and shaped version of whatever the 307 appeared with in 2001. ...which its self is (apparently) a reworked version of whatever the ZX appeared with in 1991. I also appeared in 1991, in case anyone's interested. Nope, didn't think so.

So I'm not so sure it'd be an entire disaster. With GM owning a comparatively small fraction, I can imagine they'd effectively hand over the floorplan and tell Peugeot and Citroen to get on with it. Which suits me very nicely - PSA get a fresh new platform to work off for the next 21 years, and GM get access to some rather nice diesels. Which are already on sale in every other car ever anyway.

The worry, of course, is that they go all well... GM-ish, and we end up with the 2016 Citroen Astra; differentiated only by the chevron on the front and some pointlessly soft suspension settings. We'll have to see, I suppose.

 

[niky]

I'm with HFS on this... GM could benefit from PSA's diesels, which Ford currently uses. (Gasp, Ford will be using GM diesels! )

 

[Northstar]

With what money? It should also be noted that the US government owns 50% of GM...who know owns a little bit of France....interesting.

They only own 26%.

But this is about GM buying Citroen Peugeot...

I wouldn't call 7% buying.

I don't think this deal will be much different than the GM/Toyota or Ford/Mazda partnerships that have happened.

 

[YSSMAN]

The Peugeot thing is different, I suspect. Peugeot and Citroen aren't hugely profitable at the moment but they'll get an injection of cash, and GM will benefit from some of PSA's latest engine technology, I suspect diesels in particular which PSA has always been very good at.

The fact that they're planning on coming out with a co-developed car in 2014, it sounds like they've had things cooking for a while. I'd agree on the diesel guess, if GM wants to get serious about doing it in Europe and America, they may as well use the best ones on the market. I'm guessing Peugeot-Citroen wants the GM platforms and some of their technology, although I'm unfamiliar with what the European market looks like when it comes to infotainment and other connectivity options.

 

[homeforsummer]

Also...SAAB's problem, as explained on Top Gear, was they were spending WAY too much money making cars. Sure, they 9-series were good cars, but GM wanted a lot of them to be Saab badged versions of other cars...and Saab ignored orders from GM, and eventually, not GM nor Spyker could keep them alive.

I don't doubt that the TG segment was slightly exaggerated, however - this is TG we're talking about - it may have proved expensive making all the changes that Saab made to those platforms, but then had the platforms not been uncompetitive in the first place then Saab wouldn't have had to re-develop them as thoroughly.

GM simply gave them rather limited options on how good they could make a car. That I have magazines that actually ranked the last-generation 9-3 above cars like the Merc C-Class and BMW 3-Series in some tests when it first arrived, is testament to how much Saab managed to do with a poor platform - so imagine what would have happened had they been given something decent to work with in the first place, and a higher budget.

The only other similarity was Volvo - but then since most of their smaller range was based on a decent platform, that of the Ford Focus, they didn't have nearly the struggle that Saab did to compete against BMW/Merc/Audi.

 

[SagarisGTB]

So I'm not so sure it'd be an entire disaster. With GM owning a comparatively small fraction, I can imagine they'd effectively hand over the floorplan and tell Peugeot and Citroen to get on with it. Which suits me very nicely - PSA get a fresh new platform to work off for the next 21 years, and GM get access to some rather nice diesels. Which are already on sale in every other car ever anyway.

The worry, of course, is that they go all well... GM-ish, and we end up with the 2016 Citroen Astra; differentiated only by the chevron on the front and some pointlessly soft suspension settings. We'll have to see, I suppose.

The Peugeot family still owns by far the largest share in PSA and will continue to have almost complete control over the conglomerate. Though GM has bought shares in PSA and the Peugeot family has declined to buy shares of GM, the situation that has formed is an alliance. Platform sharing, engine sharing and possible co development of future models may arise, but GM has very little say in the future of Peugeot and Citroen. I doubt we will see anything like a Citroen Astra anytime soon.