Good Bye

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by Jordan in a locked thread

Everyone involved needs to remember - the challenge is just game. Don't take it so seriously.

That you choose not to ban Zero is certainly your decision - and I have not tried to influence that in any way. As a matter of fact, in the past I have been a defender of the two-strike approach, and understand the value of a second chance - esp for the young among us.

But as one of the racers offended in this matter, I can not understand your attitude expressed in this quote. Next time there is a challenge - let's just all cheat as much as we can and then fall all over each other apologizing for it. :rolleyes:

I wonder where some of you get your ethics? If it's just a game, it's OK to cheat as long as you sort of confess? As long as it is not serious, it's OK to cheat?

To any honest racers around here, be careful of the company you keep. For the rest of you, fine for you to cheat yourselves - you'll all be losers.

Zero apologized to me by PM - I accept that apology (but Zero - we all want to win don't we?). But what I can't accept is your attitude Jordan, whoever you are. Why don't you stick to running a chat board and forget the racing. Few will take this board "seriously" in any future online racing.

I was more than polite when I first posted here. Thanks for the "friendly" welcome from one or two of you. Bet this thread disappears real quick too, eh? That'll solve it.

BYE BYE
 
Originally posted by easyed


That you choose not to ban Zero is certainly your decision - and I have not tried to influence that in any way. As a matter of fact, in the past I have been a defender of the two-strike approach, and understand the value of a second chance - esp for the young among us.

But as one of the racers offended in this matter, I can not understand your attitude expressed in this quote. Next time there is a challenge - let's just all cheat as much as we can and then fall all over each other apologizing for it. :rolleyes:

I wonder where some of you get your ethics? If it's just a game, it's OK to cheat as long as you sort of confess? As long as it is not serious, it's OK to cheat?

To any honest racers around here, be careful of the company you keep. For the rest of you, fine for you to cheat yourselves - you'll all be losers.

Zero apologized to me by PM - I accept that apology (but Zero - we all want to win don't we?). But what I can't accept is your attitude Jordan, whoever you are. Why don't you stick to running a chat board and forget the racing. Few will take this board "seriously" in any future online racing.

I was more than polite when I first posted here. Thanks for the "friendly" welcome from one or two of you. Bet this thread disappears real quick too, eh? That'll solve it.

BYE BYE

Right here is a prime example of the scenario I was talking about when I replied to Stealth Viper in his thread "What I think of this whole mess" or something to that effect. I don't know who has been on this site before, but I would bet money that you just lost, by far, the fastest racer to ever grace these pages with his name, and also a really cool guy. Hint, problems don't dissapear just because messages about them do. I second the notion that if you can't, or won't take online racing seriously then just don't bother. You're wating your time and the participants time.
 
Ok, I think lecture time is over for you both. Pretty much everyone here is well aware of the situation, and we don't need other forums giving us lectures on a regular basis. It's pretty obvious that you two, and a few others arrived here to dole out your fair share of *tsk* *tsk* and "For shames, " not with the intention of joining us as friends; so that statement :
"...but I would bet money that you just lost, by far, the fastest racer to ever grace these pages with his name, and also a really cool guy" doesn't really wash as a valid punishment. Keep in mind though, that I am not saying that either part of that statement is false. How do I make that judgement? Basically on faith. My guess is that there is a great deal of frustration that is being felt by the members of other forums about the goings on in our own, and many just want their opinions to be heard.
If you look around at some of the other topics, you will notice a distinct abscence of flaming in our threads. Most of us here are friends, or as much as we can be seperated by hundreds of miles, oceans, time zones, and fibre optic cables. We are a very close knit group and we like it that way. When one member comes along to disrupt the group, things tend to iron themselves out amongst us.
Not too long ago Zerocool85 came under what I would say was the most vulgar verbal assault I have ever come across on any page. He took the high road and forgave the person. That member wasn't banned either (despite the fact that at the time everyone thought he probably should have been), and now he is actually quite pleasant.
Everybody should get a second chance is what I believe, and I stick to that ideal no matter how furious or disgusted I become with real life friends or people I meet online.
Attacking Jordan for his desicion to let ZeroCool stay, no matter what level of shame he has wrought upon his friends and team mates is just wrong.
Quote from easyed:
"But what I can't accept is your attitude Jordan, whoever you are. Why don't you stick to running a chat board and forget the racing. Few will take this board "seriously" in any future online racing."
Jordan is the Site Owner and operator, and Racing Enthusiast. He is also one of the most genuinely good hearted people I have run across. (which is also why everyone has been given a second chance) Video games are just somewhat lower on his priority list from what I have seen. (not to say that he doesn't enjoy the GT series) Telling him to "mind his business" is possibly the most ludicrous statement I have ever heard on these pages. This is his business. To sit back in your chair, running your hands through your hair in disbelief, thinking that he is not angry in some capacity is also absurd. but then, I can not speak for him, as I can only be my own person.
Having said all of this, this is what I feel deep inside, and I am sure that other members have similar thoughts running through their own heads. Yes Zerocool cheated. No it wasn't acceptable. No it wasn't a simple error in judgement. No, I do not think that he will come back once he truly realizes what actual damage he has caused. No he will not accepted by many members, particularly the ones associated with the Inter-Forum races. (and that constitutes a large portion of the regulars) No he will never be trusted to enter any kind of competition whether it be racing or a "who has seen Star wars more than 50 times" poll. Despite the fact that most of us held our tongues in the threads, what goes on in Private messaging is a different story. The frustration that you have expressed is twofold for the members pf GTplanet, as all of us thought that he was a good friend, and someone to be trusted implicitly.
Things will take care of themselves here at the planet, and eventually this will pass just as everything else in life does. If you look to the left, and see what part of the world I come from, perhaps that may remind you that there truly are more important things that are happening around us than a 15 year old in cheating in a video game.
Once again, I can only speak for myself though.
 
This is exactly what I was referring to in that statement. Look at yourself, getting your panties in a wad over an online challenge with no reward between people you don't and will never know.

That you choose not to ban Zero is certainly your decision - and I have not tried to influence that in any way. As a matter of fact, in the past I have been a defender of the two-strike approach, and understand the value of a second chance - esp for the young among us.
You're right, my decision not to ban him is my own. You have no say in that whatsoever. I hope you also realize that you sharply contradict yourself in nearly every sentence after this paragraph?

I wonder where some of you get your ethics? If it's just a game, it's OK to cheat as long as you sort of confess? As long as it is not serious, it's OK to cheat?
Um, yeah, my point exactly! :rolleyes: Nobody said it was right to cheat. Is it grounds to permanently get rid of one of the most active members? No.

To any honest racers around here, be careful of the company you keep. For the rest of you, fine for you to cheat yourselves - you'll all be losers.
Well said. Winners never cheat and cheaters never win!

But what I can't accept is your attitude Jordan...
Nobody asked you to.

Why don't you stick to running a chat board and forget the racing.
What? I wasn't the one who cheated. I'm not even involved in the forum vs. forum challenge. There's just a team of members from my "chat board" racing members from other "chat boards".

Few will take this board "seriously" in any future online racing.
Honestly, does anyone take another forum seriously in online racing?

I was more than polite when I first posted here. Thanks for the "friendly" welcome from one or two of you.
Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't see the thread. Welcome to GTPlanet!

Bet this thread disappears real quick too, eh? That'll solve it.
Yep, that would solve it. But it's still here! :eek:
 
Originally posted by Tom McDonnell
Ok, I think lecture time is over for you both. Pretty much everyone here is well aware of the situation, and we don't need other forums giving us lectures on a regular basis. It's pretty obvious that you two, and a few others arrived here to dole out your fair share of *tsk* *tsk* and "For shames, " not with the intention of joining us as friends; so that statement :
"...but I would bet money that you just lost, by far, the fastest racer to ever grace these pages with his name, and also a really cool guy" doesn't really wash as a valid punishment. Keep in mind though, that I am not saying that either part of that statement is false. How do I make that judgement? Basically on faith. My guess is that there is a great deal of frustration that is being felt by the members of other forums about the goings on in our own, and many just want their opinions to be heard.
If you look around at some of the other topics, you will notice a distinct abscence of flaming in our threads. Most of us here are friends, or as much as we can be seperated by hundreds of miles, oceans, time zones, and fibre optic cables. We are a very close knit group and we like it that way. When one member comes along to disrupt the group, things tend to iron themselves out amongst us.
Not too long ago Zerocool85 came under what I would say was the most vulgar verbal assault I have ever come across on any page. He took the high road and forgave the person. That member wasn't banned either (despite the fact that at the time everyone thought he probably should have been), and now he is actually quite pleasant.
Everybody should get a second chance is what I believe, and I stick to that ideal no matter how furious or disgusted I become with real life friends or people I meet online.
Attacking Jordan for his desicion to let ZeroCool stay, no matter what level of shame he has wrought upon his friends and team mates is just wrong.
Quote from easyed:
"But what I can't accept is your attitude Jordan, whoever you are. Why don't you stick to running a chat board and forget the racing. Few will take this board "seriously" in any future online racing."
Jordan is the Site Owner and operator, and Racing Enthusiast. He is also one of the most genuinely good hearted people I have run across. (which is also why everyone has been given a second chance) Video games are just somewhat lower on his priority list from what I have seen. (not to say that he doesn't enjoy the GT series) Telling him to "mind his business" is possibly the most ludicrous statement I have ever heard on these pages. This is his business. To sit back in your chair, running your hands through your hair in disbelief, thinking that he is not angry in some capacity is also absurd. but then, I can not speak for him, as I can only be my own person.
Having said all of this, this is what I feel deep inside, and I am sure that other members have similar thoughts running through their own heads. Yes Zerocool cheated. No it wasn't acceptable. No it wasn't a simple error in judgement. No, I do not think that he will come back once he truly realizes what actual damage he has caused. No he will not accepted by many members, particularly the ones associated with the Inter-Forum races. (and that constitutes a large portion of the regulars) No he will never be trusted to enter any kind of competition whether it be racing or a "who has seen Star wars more than 50 times" poll. Despite the fact that most of us held our tongues in the threads, what goes on in Private messaging is a different story. The frustration that you have expressed is twofold for the members pf GTplanet, as all of us thought that he was a good friend, and someone to be trusted implicitly.
Things will take care of themselves here at the planet, and eventually this will pass just as everything else in life does. If you look to the left, and see what part of the world I come from, perhaps that may remind you that there truly are more important things that are happening around us than a 15 year old in cheating in a video game.
Once again, I can only speak for myself though.
You speak for me too
 
Originally posted by Jordan
This is exactly what I was referring to in that statement. Look at yourself, getting your panties in a wad over an online challenge with no reward between people you don't and will never know.

You're right, my decision not to ban him is my own. You have no say in that whatsoever. I hope you also realize that you sharply contradict yourself in nearly every sentence after this paragraph?

Um, yeah, my point exactly! :rolleyes: Nobody said it was right to cheat. Is it grounds to permanently get rid of one of the most active members? No.

Well said. Winners never cheat and cheaters never win!

Nobody asked you to.

What? I wasn't the one who cheated. I'm not even involved in the forum vs. forum challenge. There's just a team of members from my "chat board" racing members from other "chat boards".

Honestly, does anyone take another forum seriously in online racing?

Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't see the thread. Welcome to GTPlanet!

Yep, that would solve it. But it's still here! :eek:
:thumbsup:To everything you said Jordan. That's why you da man. I'm glad to be part of a site run by you:thumbsup:
 
Sincerely Jordan, that was well written and I do apologize for intruding, and for stepping on toes. And I'm sure the members' loyalty is not misplaced. Given my outburst, you have responded like a gentleman, and I appreciate that.

I think I wasn't clear (not that my opinion matters here) - I still favor the 2 strike appraoch - in every case. What I didn't understand was the "Don't take it so seriously", and I guess I still don't.

Tom, I did not come first to tsk tsk. I'm sorry that you saw my Race 9 runthru and stats that way. I guess I'm just used to doing that sort of stuff at the House and GTF. I should have left the short lecture out of it though, and I am sorry for that.

I don't know who gimp is, but he apparently knows me. But he seems polite from what I read, and also suggested that you "take online racing seriously". That word again - "seriously".

As a racer involved, I have accepted Zero's personal apology. Had no problem with that at all. But this was an inter-board challenge. Board vs board.

I responded, emotionally I will admit, to Jordan's locked thread decision - but I was responding, as I quoted, to the question of "seriously". I race at GTF where they have a 2 strike rule, but they take the issue of cheaters "seriously" and openly - and painfully at times.

My only point was, and is, that when this board races other boards, some will be interested in how seriously this board and the others involved take the question of cheaters. I'm sorry for the emotional way of putting it.

Come to think of it, I'm sorry for putting it at all. Y'all don't take online racing "seriously"? Fine. Now we all know. Thanks.
 
Thank you, your apology is appreciated, Ed. I have started to become very upset about the whole ordeal; reading hateful messages about my website which I put so much work into, and being compared to Osama Bin Laden, really hurts.

As punishment, I have relieved ZeroCool of his moderation privileges and have restricted his access to the "Challenges and Races" forums here at GTPlanet.
 
Originally posted by Jordan
Thank you, your apology is appreciated, Ed. I have started to become very upset about the whole ordeal; reading hateful messages about my website which I put so much work into, and being compared to Osama Bin Laden, really hurts.

As punishment, I have relieved ZeroCool of his moderation privileges and have restricted his access to the "Challenges and Races" forums here at GTPlanet.


Jordan how do you do it? You handle things so nicely.:eek: You make all this seem so easy Jordan. What Tom said above was very true. He is only 15. Its natural. There is still no reason for it. Even though it is just a game. I can understand it happening once but numerous times is a little obvious. :rolleyes:
 
I understand Jordan - I can tell you have a lot invested in the site. Y'all will have to deal with this in your own way, and it was certainly bad timing of me to butt in right now.

I'll get out of the way and get back to racing .....least I'm good at that. I know you've got a big job and a hard one. Nice to know there are some consequences, and serious ones at that. Thanks for that.
 
Originally posted by Tom McDonnell
Ok, I think lecture time is over for you both. Pretty much everyone here is well aware of the situation, and we don't need other forums giving us lectures on a regular basis. It's pretty obvious that you two, and a few others arrived here to dole out your fair share of *tsk* *tsk* and "For shames, " not with the intention of joining us as friends; so that statement :
"...but I would bet money that you just lost, by far, the fastest racer to ever grace these pages with his name, and also a really cool guy" doesn't really wash as a valid punishment. Keep in mind though, that I am not saying that either part of that statement is false. How do I make that judgement? Basically on faith. My guess is that there is a great deal of frustration that is being felt by the members of other forums about the goings on in our own, and many just want their opinions to be heard.
If you look around at some of the other topics, you will notice a distinct abscence of flaming in our threads. Most of us here are friends, or as much as we can be seperated by hundreds of miles, oceans, time zones, and fibre optic cables. We are a very close knit group and we like it that way. When one member comes along to disrupt the group, things tend to iron themselves out amongst us.
Not too long ago Zerocool85 came under what I would say was the most vulgar verbal assault I have ever come across on any page. He took the high road and forgave the person. That member wasn't banned either (despite the fact that at the time everyone thought he probably should have been), and now he is actually quite pleasant.
Everybody should get a second chance is what I believe, and I stick to that ideal no matter how furious or disgusted I become with real life friends or people I meet online.
Attacking Jordan for his desicion to let ZeroCool stay, no matter what level of shame he has wrought upon his friends and team mates is just wrong.
Quote from easyed:
"But what I can't accept is your attitude Jordan, whoever you are. Why don't you stick to running a chat board and forget the racing. Few will take this board "seriously" in any future online racing."
Jordan is the Site Owner and operator, and Racing Enthusiast. He is also one of the most genuinely good hearted people I have run across. (which is also why everyone has been given a second chance) Video games are just somewhat lower on his priority list from what I have seen. (not to say that he doesn't enjoy the GT series) Telling him to "mind his business" is possibly the most ludicrous statement I have ever heard on these pages. This is his business. To sit back in your chair, running your hands through your hair in disbelief, thinking that he is not angry in some capacity is also absurd. but then, I can not speak for him, as I can only be my own person.
Having said all of this, this is what I feel deep inside, and I am sure that other members have similar thoughts running through their own heads. Yes Zerocool cheated. No it wasn't acceptable. No it wasn't a simple error in judgement. No, I do not think that he will come back once he truly realizes what actual damage he has caused. No he will not accepted by many members, particularly the ones associated with the Inter-Forum races. (and that constitutes a large portion of the regulars) No he will never be trusted to enter any kind of competition whether it be racing or a "who has seen Star wars more than 50 times" poll. Despite the fact that most of us held our tongues in the threads, what goes on in Private messaging is a different story. The frustration that you have expressed is twofold for the members pf GTplanet, as all of us thought that he was a good friend, and someone to be trusted implicitly.
Things will take care of themselves here at the planet, and eventually this will pass just as everything else in life does. If you look to the left, and see what part of the world I come from, perhaps that may remind you that there truly are more important things that are happening around us than a 15 year old in cheating in a video game.
Once again, I can only speak for myself though.

Well put Tom. :thumbsup: My emotional uphieval was too distrought at the time to reply.

*ditto*
 
Im gone for a week and wow, what did I miss??
What an uproar!
Well, I hate to hear of the bad news and all, but Jordan is a very fair person and just. I think Ill bow out of here now. *tucking tail and walking away* Later
 
I'm sorry you saw this as a lecture, as that is not how I intended it to be. I don't talk alot, but when I do it usually comes out as a long message. I DID want to see how the membership as a whole would respond to this incedent, and when I saw, well, basically not much happening, I did a bit of prodding. What I did discover, as did Ed, is that this community seems to not take online racing as seriously as some of the other communities. I guess I thought that since you were in the board vs board challenge that you did. My mistake, I'm sorry to bother you.

As far as my statement about "...but I would bet money that you just lost, by far, the fastest racer to ever grace these pages with his name, and also a really cool guy", as with all my messages it was heartfelt since he came here with the intention of sharing his winning experiences (and likely a whole lot more knowing how he is :)) with a board he had just discovered. I didn't really envision at that point, it being construed as any type of punishment, just thought it was kind of telling since I saw it immediately after I had written another message where I stated that if racers see a lack of seriousness about the hobby the better ones likely won't stay.

That is all. I will now take my leave. You may, or may not see me in the future.
 
Originally posted by Jordan
This is exactly what I was referring to in that statement. Look at yourself, getting your panties in a wad over an online challenge with no reward between people you don't and will never know.


Honestly, does anyone take another forum seriously in online racing?

I missed this earlier, but just HAVE to comment here, and answer a question that begs it. If you feel there is no reward in knowing you got an honest win over an opponent, sharing the joys and sorrows of a team contest with your other hard working teammates, I truly feel sorry for you. That feeling is worth so much more than money or trophies that such things are normally regarded as icing on the cake, since the real reward is inside yourself. BTW, many racers involved in that challenge have also been involved in events that do offer material rewards, money and tropies, etc. There are also many that HAVE met each other in real life. These are not faceless opponents.

Does anyone take another forum seriously in online racing? Absolutely and without a doubt!! Evidently not here though, as it seems from your statement that you do not.
 
Originally posted by easyed

Tom, I did not come first to tsk tsk. I'm sorry that you saw my Race 9 runthru and stats that way. I guess I'm just used to doing that sort of stuff at the House and GTF. I should have left the short lecture out of it though, and I am sorry for that.

Actually, I was sincere in my appreciation for that. I had not seen that much detail put into how any one particular race was run before. Especially with the explanation as to how each lap was run from start to finish. It's rare to find someone with that level of appreciation or commitment to anything in this day.
Mostly I took offense to the attack on Jordan, and the possibility that this was going to fast become a lecture series.
As for the board not taking racing seriously, that is actually quite wrong. Just to let you know where I stand, yes I believe that it is a game, and nothing more. That is part of the reason why I did not look to compete. Most of the other members that have voiced their opinions also feel the same way as I do, but were also non-participants. As for the members that were involved in the Forum vs forum challenge, they take this matter very seriously, and are for the most part devastated. If you don't believe me, PM some of them, and get their thoughts.
I'd also like to ask a favor of you (all), come back to our forum anyway from time to time, even if you don't want to post anything. Read what is going on, get to know our members. There really aren't so many that it wouldn't be easy to get a handle on who is the real McCoy versus the less reliable fellows. I think that if we all (meaning the hard core racers) bounce from forum to forum now and again we will all be better able to understand both how things work in a particular community, and also what type of people you are actually dealing with. I would hate for GTplanet to become the "Red headed Stepchild" of the Racing community, thusly punishing the wrong people for my (and non racers like myself's) ambivilance.
 
Thanks for clearing that up Tom. I do understand now that I am just seeing the surface of things around here - and first impressions can be very very misleading.

I'm just a racer and love to share the experience with other racers. I've apologized to Jordan, and sincerely mean it. It was not my style - they don't call me easyed for no reason. And I'll now apologize to all members of the board here for my intrusion. We've had painful discussions on the cheating topic at the House, and I know it would not be greatly appreciated for an outsider to come in and try to straighten us out while we were trying to deal with it. And my timing was the worst - just wasn't what I intended at all when I dropped by.

I'll take ya up on your invitation - and extend the same to everyone here. The door to the House is always open and the frig is usually stocked pretty well with cold ones. Be glad to tip a glass with y'all and talk racing till the wee hours.

I'll be back, and trust that first impressions of me don't persist. I'm certain my first impressions of the folks here were way off base.

The track is calling - I've been away too long.........
 
I missed this earlier, but just HAVE to comment here, and answer a question that begs it. If you feel there is no reward in knowing you got an honest win over an opponent, sharing the joys and sorrows of a team contest with your other hard working teammates, I truly feel sorry for you. That feeling is worth so much more than money or trophies that such things are normally regarded as icing on the cake, since the real reward is inside yourself.
On the contrary, I do understand that feeling. What I meant by that statement was that in a competition such as this, you should always be suspicious and constantly watching your competitor's times. That was very sharp of Wity, who discovered ZeroCool's false times, and I applaud him for that.

BTW, many racers involved in that challenge have also been involved in events that do offer material rewards, money and tropies, etc.
:eek: Sweet! Where do these challenges take place?


There are also many that HAVE met each other in real life. These are not faceless opponents.
Oh, I see where that would certainly change things. As far as I know, there have not been any off-line meetings of GTPlanet members. :(

Does anyone take another forum seriously in online racing? Absolutely and without a doubt!! Evidently not here though, as it seems from your statement that you do not.
It's not that I don't take online racing seriously, I simply consider it a fun way to play the game, and test your skills against other people. Neither did I realize or understand the level of dedication of other racers in this series. Every bit of their anger and frustration with ZeroCool is well-placed, I would certainly feel exactly the same way had I spent hours and hours honestly involved in the challenge. And, I also understand why they think he should be banned from GTPlanet. But, they only focus on online racing - I'm focused on the community as a whole. GTPlanet is not like the GTF; if I go banning a few members, the activity here will be cut in half.

Like I said earlier, ZeroCool won't be involved in any more challenges as far as I'm concerned. He has been banned from our challenge forums individually, but he is welcome to add his comments in the Rumble Strip, or provide help for newbies in the GT3 Forum. Will he? I don't know, but I seriously doubt it. I do know that he will no longer be accepted by his peers, which I feel is far worse punishment than not being able to access the site.

Originally posted by Tom McDonnell

I would hate for GTplanet to become the "Red headed Stepchild" of the Racing community, thusly punishing the wrong people for my (and non racers like myself's) ambivilance.
I'm afraid that's already starting to happen. As I said above, after reading through other forums, I have been put on just as low (or lower) of a level as ZeroCool for my decision not to ban him. :cry:

Hopefully, in the next forum vs. forum challenge, I will be able to manage this team myself, and we will show the rest of the online racing community the true potential of GTPlanet.
 
Originally posted by Jordan
Thank you, your apology is appreciated, Ed. I have started to become very upset about the whole ordeal; reading hateful messages about my website which I put so much work into, and being compared to Osama Bin Laden, really hurts.

As punishment, I have relieved ZeroCool of his moderation privileges and have restricted his access to the "Challenges and Races" forums here at GTPlanet.

Who compared you to Osama bin Laden? :confused:
 
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