Government wants tougher driving test

[Pebb]

Source: AutoCar

Young drivers will face much tougher driving tests before they are allowed out on the road on their own, under new government proposals.

The aim is to reduce Britain's high rates of accidents – and correspondingly high numbers of deaths and injuries among drivers under 25 years old, especially young men.

Male drivers aged 17 to 20 are almost 10 times more likely to be killed or seriously injured at the wheel than those aged 40 to 59. Men aged 17 to 19 are also three times more likely to have serious crashes then women of the same age.

Among the proposals under consideration are greater practice before being allowed to take the driving test, and better education at school about road safety. The government believes that often it is a problem of attitude more than ability (or the lack of it).

Extending the current 40-minute practical driving test to include elements of night driving, and driving on different categories of road is likely. We reckon that higher-quality roads, and better policing of them, would also help reduce deaths and injuries.

 

[Danoff]

It is more attitude than ability... which is why tougher tests aren't likely to help at all.

 

[Tornado]

It is more attitude than ability... which is why tougher tests aren't likely to help at all.

Except in the cases where it is ability, rare though they are.

 

[Pebb]

I think it would be smart if these plans go ahead.

 

[Keef]

It is more attitude than ability... which is why tougher tests aren't likely to help at all.

Hence my crash back in June. Tougher tests will help very little. A more comprehensive and diverse test, possibly, but not a "tougher" one.

 

[G.T]

Yep, I agree with this hardly helping at all. You will never stop youngsters getting the freedom of racing around in their first car no matter how much extra educational time you get.

 

[Poverty]

I think its down to the average kid not having respect for the roads with cars being safer than ever, and how on major motorsports (F1) people hardly ever get seriously injured or die that young males think they are invincible

 

[Jim Prower]

Sadly, not the U.S. government.

 

[Azuremen]

Thats what I said Jim... any one can get a license in this country. Anyone, with how they let you retake it and just the ease of the questions. That and how easy it is to keep your license here.

 

[YSSMAN]

...Well, as the great Ron White once said, "You can't fix stupid."

Test the kids all you want, but they are still going to somehow be able to pass, get their license, and wind up in Clarkson's front yard. Kids are going to be kids behind the wheel, unexperienced, and generally unafraid of what lies ahead. What it comes down to is that a tougher test may weed-out those that certainly shouldn't be driving, however it isn't going to stop all of the bad seeds from getting their hands behind the wheel.

I know I often mention that Michigan does have some of the most strict driving laws in the country, however that does not mean that stupid people aren't allowed to get behind the wheel. Case in point is the idiot who pulled out in front of me and totaled my first car. At that rate, it wasn't the first time she had had and accident, it was number three.

 

[Jim Prower]

No, you can't fix stupid. But you can reduce it.

The testing isn't the only thing: Driver's Ed should be a longer, more thurough course. In fact, the entire public education system is a train wreck...

When I ask people what car they have, and they can't even tell me the make right off the bat, something's wrong.

 

[RouWa]

What do you have to do in England to get your licence? How many practise hours? What does the test look like?

 

[ExigeEvan]

I don't think this is the answer.

I think engine limiting (Like the current motorbike system) and a complete ban on any modification to the engine and suspension would be better.

 

[Famine]

Thats what I said Jim... any one can get a license in this country. Anyone, with how they let you retake it and just the ease of the questions. That and how easy it is to keep your license here.

This is about the UK's driver licensing system.

We think it's quite bad over here, but it's nothing compared to the US...

In 2000 there were 3,409 deaths in road traffic accidents in the UK, compared to 41,471 in the USA.

"Ah, but we have more cars!"

In 2000 there were 11.8 road traffic accident deaths per 100,000 cars in the UK, compared to 19.1 in the US.

"Ah, but we drive further!"

In 2000 there were 0.72 road traffic accident deaths per 100,000,000 vehicle kilometres in the UK, compared to 1.51 in the US.

"Ah, but we have more people!"

In 2000 there were 5.7 road traffic accident deaths per 100,000 population in the UK, compared to 15.1 in the US.

You're twice as likely to die for every mile you drive in the US compared to the UK...

That's not to say that our system isn't in need of improvement - but licenced drivers are not the main problem...

a complete ban on any modification to the engine and suspension would be better.

What? Why? Why would I have to live with a mass-market-approved (compromise) suspension and engine when I can improve upon them? Tyres are part of a vehicle's suspension too... Should I be forced to keep manufacturer-supplied, low-noise DaiYung Hejfindas or safer, grippy aftermarket tyres?

 

[emad]

We have a graduated licensing system in my province. First test is a permit which requires an experienced driver with you. The second test comes up to 1 year later and just has stricter restrictions on the number of demerit points you're allowed and I think BAC is also a factor. The third test is the full and final one and comes a year after the second.

In the end, I still think we need a better testing system here. There's way too many idiots on the road and even more people with almost no winter driving experience trying to do like 10km/h in an 80 zone. I guess that's what happens when you live in a country with a very high immigration rate

 

[McLaren]

Source: AutoCar

Young drivers will face much tougher driving tests before they are allowed out on the road on their own, under new government proposals.

The aim is to reduce Britain's high rates of accidents – and correspondingly high numbers of deaths and injuries among drivers under 25 years old, especially young men.

Male drivers aged 17 to 20 are almost 10 times more likely to be killed or seriously injured at the wheel than those aged 40 to 59. Men aged 17 to 19 are also three times more likely to have serious crashes then women of the same age.
Among the proposals under consideration are greater practice before being allowed to take the driving test, and better education at school about road safety. The government believes that often it is a problem of attitude more than ability (or the lack of it).

Extending the current 40-minute practical driving test to include elements of night driving, and driving on different categories of road is likely. We reckon that higher-quality roads, and better policing of them, would also help reduce deaths and injuries.

I wonder why. Perhaps, as said, they think they're invincible and can do everything a movie shows.

That's the same here except:
Men will do it being funny/race/stupid.
Women will do it while chatting with friends in the car/doing makeup or whatever/cell phone and not paying attention.

 

[harrytuttle]

I think its down to the average kid not having respect for the roads with cars being safer than ever, and how on major motorsports (F1) people hardly ever get seriously injured or die that young males think they are invincible

Or any respect for anything. I agree about motorsport not being the spectacle of death that it used to be (good though that may be), it probably showcased how dangerous driving can be even under ideal conditions (closed track, etc.).

Perhaps driving education should be approached in the same way alchohol & drugs are: start as young as possible. Only this would be something they could have hands-on experience with. This is not to say that the average teenager still won't act like a mongoloid on Saturday night, but at least there's a greater chance that he'll know how to handle himself in rough situations.

 

[ExigeEvan]

What? Why? Why would I have to live with a mass-market-approved (compromise) suspension and engine when I can improve upon them? Tyres are part of a vehicle's suspension too... Should I be forced to keep manufacturer-supplied, low-noise DaiYung Hejfindas or safer, grippy aftermarket tyres?

Ah bugger. Sorry I wasn't clear enough. It was in regards to younger drivers.

A simple air filter in itself will not make a car much, if any faster. However, it will make some drivers think it is faster. And hence they drive faster in order to 'prove' themselves and 'show-off'.

And suspension changes also cause certain drivers to believe their handling and stability is infinetly better, even when it is a cheap and often useless modification if not done properly. And yet again it causes them to push harder so they can justify to peers that these modifications are the '**i*.'

However, if either of these changes were imposed, it would probably lead to alot of job losses as the modification market is massive in the UK.

 

[Bram Turismo]

I'm fully against the article. Wether you pass or not does not say anything about you as a driver. The young drivers in question are just of small number compared to every driver of their age. Most of these accidents just happen because of either a small mistake or either because of speeding.

Same happened in Belgium a couple of years ago, party over, home in a spiced up Golfie and 5 death people were the result. Does that mean the tests should be harder?

I don't think there is a real solution to this, set up even more police units? Waste of money, illegalise modifications? Uhhh, no...Young drivers just have to realise that the streets are not there for you to play around with the your car, everybody makes use of the streets and you need to be carefull how you drive.

I can't imagine how I'd drive, I'd just freake out of all the traffic around me, now that's a major problem...

 

[Poverty]

Ah bugger. Sorry I wasn't clear enough. It was in regards to younger drivers.

A simple air filter in itself will not make a car much, if any faster. However, it will make some drivers think it is faster. And hence they drive faster in order to 'prove' themselves and 'show-off'.

And suspension changes also cause certain drivers to believe their handling and stability is infinetly better, even when it is a cheap and often useless modification if not done properly. And yet again it causes them to push harder so they can justify to peers that these modifications are the '**i*.'

However, if either of these changes were imposed, it would probably lead to alot of job losses as the modification market is massive in the UK.

Many of the major insurers wont let 17 and 18 yr olds have any modifications on their car till they have 1yrs NCB.

 

[ExigeEvan]

Many of the major insurers wont let 17 and 18 yr olds have any modifications on their car till they have 1yrs NCB.

Yeah, I know that. But male drivers are still considered major risks up untill 24 (I think.).

 

[Danoff]

The testing isn't the only thing: Driver's Ed should be a longer, more thurough course. In fact, the entire public education system is a train wreck...

Doesn't the first sentence kinda contradict the second? Public eduction is a train wreck... let's do more of it? How about alternatives?

I don't think this is the answer.

I think engine limiting (Like the current motorbike system) and a complete ban on any modification to the engine and suspension would be better.

You're trying to reduce the capabilities of what you think is the younger crowd, and you think that this might have an effect on the statistics. Do you think that mods are the reason for the accident statistics? Or perhaps something more fundamental... like a general overconfidence behind the wheel.

The reason kids are more likely to get into accidents is overconfidence and lack of experience. Testing is not going to fix that. Making them drive slower cars isn't going to fix that. The only way for them to fix that is to get experience.

 

[GT Pro]

The reason kids are more likely to get into accidents is overconfidence and lack of experience. Testing is not going to fix that. Making them drive slower cars isn't going to fix that. The only way for them to fix that is to get experience.

Exactly. Lowering speeds is next to useless, as NT will soon find out.

 

[ExigeEvan]

You're trying to reduce the capabilities of what you think is the younger crowd, and you think that this might have an effect on the statistics. Do you think that mods are the reason for the accident statistics? Or perhaps something more fundamental... like a general overconfidence behind the wheel.

The reason kids are more likely to get into accidents is overconfidence and lack of experience. Testing is not going to fix that. Making them drive slower cars isn't going to fix that. The only way for them to fix that is to get experience.

IMO, and completely unproven, I think there is some correlation to the confidence of a driver and how much they modify their cars.

A driver with little confidence does not modify their car, because they know that they will have an accident and that any modifications are pointless. Hence they drive slower and eventually when they have an accident it is not so serious.

A confident new driver is more likely to modify their car because they think they are untouchable. They don't realise that the chances of them having an accent is huge and that the thousands spent on their car will just up up being scrap. I also believe that because they have modified, they drive faster yet again because they must show-off and prove their modifications.

Exactly. Lowering speeds is next to useless, as NT will soon find out.

Lowering speeds may not reduce accidents, that's like shortening the blade on a knife and saying it'll reduce incidents. It won't but it'll reduce the severity of incidents.

 

[Dave A]

IMO, and completely unproven, I think there is some correlation to the confidence of a driver and how much they modify their cars.

I don't agree.

A driver with little confidence does not modify their car, because they know that they will have an accident and that any modifications are pointless. Hence they drive slower and eventually when they have an accident it is not so serious.

I've never modified my car, but I don't drive slow nor would I say I have little confidence behind the wheel. I just have little desire to spend money on modifying my car when there are more important things for me. How would that factor into your theory.

A confident new driver is more likely to modify their car because they think they are untouchable. They don't realise that the chances of them having an accent is huge and that the thousands spent on their car will just up up being scrap. I also believe that because they have modified, they drive faster yet again because they must show-off and prove their modifications.

But if you take out the modifying aspect of that, that overconfidence and drving faster describes most young male drivers. A lot of whom do not modify actually thier cars. Ofcourse drivers that modify their cars tend to drive fast and be over confident behind the wheel, but so are most of the drivers who don't, of which are a much higher portion of the young driving public. It's natural that you will a larger number of lesser confident drivers in unmodified cars.

 

[Danoff]

IMO, and completely unproven, I think there is some correlation to the confidence of a driver and how much they modify their cars.

Ok, let's assume for a moment that you're correct (though I'm not certain that you are). How does removing the modifications prevent them from being overconfident (which is the problem)?

If anything, removing the mods will make them feel even more bored and overconfident with their vehicle... a vehicle which they will care LESS about destroying because they haven't put their own blood sweat and tears into.

People tend to drive very badly in cars that they don't care about. Take rental-cars for example, nobody drives like a granny in a rental car. You know you're flooring that thing as soon as you get into it - because you have little incentive not to. If some car enthusiest who is very confident behind the wheel gets all of his money together to buy that porsche, he's not going to wreck the porsche. He might wreck his beater honda civic that he drives to work every day - because he doesn't feel the need to be as careful with that car.

Ok, I got a little off-track up there. My point is that removing the modifications does absolutely nothing for the problem - which is overconfidence and a lack of attention from inexperienced drivers who don't realize that that is how pretty much all accidents happen.

 

[ExigeEvan]

I don't agree.

I've never modified my car, but I don't drive slow nor would I say I have little confidence behind the wheel. I just have little desire to spend money on modifying my car when there are more important things for me. How would that factor into your theory.

Of course there are exemptions. But I'm not saying it's a hard and fast rule either. I just believe there's a correlation.

But if you take out the modifying aspect of that, that overconfidence and driving faster describes most young male drivers. A lot of whom do not modify actually thier cars. Ofcourse drivers that modify their cars tend to drive fast and be over confident behind the wheel, but so are most of the drivers who don't, of which are a much higher portion of the young driving public. It's natural that you will a larger number of lesser confident drivers in unmodified cars.

All true, but here's how I formed my opinion.

When I see cars speeding through my village, hear tyres screeching around bends or hear revs and tyre screech as a car pulls out too fast it usually gets my attention. I'd say 4/5 times I recognise the person doing it as being only a year or two older than myself and if it isn't the original reason I've noticed them, there's usually a loud exhaust. There's pretty much always after market rims involved and after market light clusters.

I rarely ever seen a young driver in an unmodified car driving like a prat. Perhaps I just don't notice them, perhaps the psychee (sp?) is different in different parts of the UK, but that is certainly what I've noticed.

Ok, let's assume for a moment that you're correct (though I'm not certain that you are). How does removing the modifications prevent them from being overconfident (which is the problem)?

It doesn't, but it reduces the show-boating that occurs all too often.

If anything, removing the mods will make them feel even more bored and overconfident with their vehicle... a vehicle which they will care LESS about destroying because they haven't put their own blood sweat and tears into.

Then let them care less about it, but at a slower pace and with predictable stock handling.

People tend to drive very badly in cars that they don't care about. Take rental-cars for example, nobody drives like a granny in a rental car. You know you're flooring that thing as soon as you get into it - because you have little incentive not to. If some car enthusiest who is very confident behind the wheel gets all of his money together to buy that porsche, he's not going to wreck the porsche. He might wreck his beater honda civic that he drives to work every day - because he doesn't feel the need to be as careful with that car.

Ok, I got a little off-track up there. My point is that removing the modifications does absolutely nothing for the problem - which is overconfidence and a lack of attention from inexperienced drivers who don't realize that that is how pretty much all accidents happen.

I completely agree that inexperience and over confidence is to blame. But apart from placing drivers in near death experiences and not giving them their licenses until they've experienced everything there is on the road they will continue to be a problem.

But as I've said above, the modifications exasperate the problem.

 

[Danoff]

I completely agree that inexperience and over confidence is to blame. But apart from placing drivers in near death experiences and not giving them their licenses until they've experienced everything there is on the road they will continue to be a problem.

^^ My point.

But as I've said above, the modifications exasperate the problem.

I've explained to you why drivers may actually be paying more attention while behind the wheel of a car they've modified. The show-boating is probably not what causes more accidents. Loud exhausts warn other drivers to pay attention. Most accidents seem to occur because people aren't paying attention to driving... that doesn't describe the teenager showing off, the describes the teenager half asleep in a quite boring car he doesn't care about.

 

[harrytuttle]

IMO, and completely unproven, I think there is some correlation to the confidence of a driver and how much they modify their cars.

I think there's a correlation between the intelligence of a driver and how poorly they modify their car. The loud exhaust would be symptom #1.

A driver with little confidence does not modify their car, because they know that they will have an accident and that any modifications are pointless.

I think everyone missed the answer to everything here: lower the driver's confidence. Now all we need to do is replace all driving instructors with bitter mother-in-laws...





Okay, okay...I'll go back to making productive posts....

 

[ExigeEvan]

I've explained to you why drivers may actually be paying more attention while behind the wheel of a car they've modified. The show-boating is probably not what causes more accidents. Loud exhausts warn other drivers to pay attention. Most accidents seem to occur because people aren't paying attention to driving... that doesn't describe the teenager showing off, the describes the teenager half asleep in a quite boring car he doesn't care about.

You think most teenage drivers can tell the difference between a boring and exciting car? I know people that say their Clio/Corsa/Fiesta is exciting. And in the first year or so I think it's fair to say most teenagers find simple driving exciting.

Showboating causes driver not to pay attention. They think more about what they are doing and whether pedestrians are looking at them than what other cars around them are and what the unattractive pedestrians are doing.

And the loud exhausts don't act as much of a warning as you usually don't hear them at their loudest untill you're behind them.