Gr.3 and Gr.4 - What am I missing?

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo Sport' started by CrankyCraig, Jul 12, 2018.

  1. CrankyCraig

    CrankyCraig

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    3
    I'd just like to understand why these cars/events hold so much appeal to you guys, who can almost certainly be considered a collection of the better racers playing the game.

    Do you not find them unchallenging to race?

    The events that have proved the most rewarding throughout my time with Gran Turismo (not just this one, but all of those before it), are those where the featured car requires enormous amounts of concentration and work to maintain adhesion with the track, balancing steering, throttle and brakes to glide the car around it. Typically a combination of a rear wheel drive car, fewer driving aids, and poor tyres relative to the car.

    And yet, most days 2 of the 3 events are Scalextric events, whereby even with all driving aids off, these Gr.3 and Gr.4 cars typically don't require much work from the driver to get them around the track quickly.

    So, what am I missing? Is it because the more difficult an event is, the more differentiation there is between the drivers, and so the less competitive the racing is and less consistent the driver needs to be? I'd love to understand.
     
  2. Alpha Cipher

    Alpha Cipher

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    Personally I share the same opinion on the cars themselves. I think most of the Gr. 4 and 3 cars are soulless. What I find fun though, is trying to be as fast as I can in those cars :)

    I think the funnest car you can drive in Gr. 3 would be the "diva" cars, those that are a bit more difficult to drive than the others. The RC F '17 and R.S. 01 are the first cars that popped to my mind

    Gr. 2 is more interesting, but if you want a raw, visceral experience, sadly Gr. 3/4 isn't the right place for you :( Also I don't understand what you said in the last part, can you please explain?
     
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  3. BigJimmy

    BigJimmy

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    You answered your own question.
     
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  4. Greycap

    Greycap Premium

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    The old saying "if everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough" comes to mind. Yes, they're easy to drive quickly. Race cars are designed to be just that. But when you're going for the last tenths or even hundredths, brake at the very last moment, open the throttle as early as you can, things change quickly. Half a second in the lap time can be the difference between boringly on rails and fighting the car in every corner.
     
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  5. 05XR8

    05XR8

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    22,724
    Well, the origins of GT3/4 are for the "Gentleman and woman, driver. The cars are made easy to drive for that purpose. From amateur to professional skill level.

    These two series, are perfect for players to acclimatise to, in GT Sport. Pick your favorite or brand you like. Start racing.
    The appeal for me, is the closeness to its road car. Lighter weight, stickier tyre. Drive the road car, then GT4 and last, their GT3 older brother. Amazing what the differences are. Some of the road car variants, have more power than the race cars. However, more power is not everything in comparison to higher corner speeds, braking points these cars achieve over the road cars.

    Even when watching real videos of these cars, their classes are separated into Amateurs and Pros. Drivers are pushing hard due to how easy they are to drive.
     
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  6. FA Racing

    FA Racing

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    If one's aim is to get them "around the track quickly", then I agree with you to a certain extent. BUT if the aim is to get them around the track as fast as they absolutely can go around, then that's where the fun start. AND only the day I can do that and beat guys like LIGHTNING, McLaren, Fuvaros and the rest of the aliens I will perhaps agree. That most probably will never happen, but the fun is in trying to do it.
     
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  7. CrankyCraig

    CrankyCraig

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    3
    .[QUOTE="I think the funnest car you can drive in Gr. 3 would be the "diva" cars, those that are a bit more difficult to drive than the others. The RC F '17 and R.S. 01 are the first cars that popped to my mind

    Gr. 2 is more interesting, but if you want a raw, visceral experience, sadly Gr. 3/4 isn't the right place for you :( Also I don't understand what you said in the last part, can you please explain?[/QUOTE]

    Of course I can try. Because of the difficulty in getting the cars around the track, it can sometimes feel much more like a battle between you and your car than you and your opponent. Surprising as it might be, a lot of people can't get anywhere near the fastest possible times, and so there could be several seconds between your best and that of your opponents just one position behind you, which means, you don't necessarily need to be consistent to beat them. In other events, such as Gr.3 and Gr.4 typically, there tends to be a much smaller difference between the lap times of the first 10, so staying consistently close to your best is more important. Is that a bit clearer?

    I've no real life experience with competitive racing in anything other than 2 stroke karts, so I have absolutely no idea how a Gr.3 or Gr.4 should handle. I would have expected them to be easy to break traction and spin if not careful, but I would have never imagined them to be 'easy' to drive.

    Neither have I held a top 10 position in the rankings, nor am I likely to given my casual approach to the game, but if I were to chase a lap time, I'd much rather be doing it in a difficult car than a Gr.3 or Gr.4.

    Don't misunderstand, I enjoy a variety of events, but I know that some can't stand to be racing anything other than the 'Racing - Super Glue' tyres, which I'm typically not keen on. To each their own and all, I'm just trying to see the appeal.
     
    Alpha Cipher likes this.
  8. BallPtPenTheif

    BallPtPenTheif

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    Though I'm not one of the better drivers, the appeal seems obvious to me. GR4 cars are faster than road cars but are far better balanced, with shorter braking distances, and slightly more torque. GR3 cars, are again faster and with better brakes. At each step up in car class, the fidelity of the throttle decreases as the torque of the cars increase.

    GR2 cars I can't even keep on the track without my traction control set to 2 (again, I'm not one of the better drivers), and GR1 feels more like consecutive drag races connected by coasting turns. So for me, it's still about developing that gradual throttle/brake control, reducing aids over time, and increasing my abilities with each progressive class of cars.

    I mean I usually qualify within 5 seconds of the world record time, so knowing that there's always 5 seconds lying around the track is probably one of the biggest motivators for me.
     
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  9. Alpha Cipher

    Alpha Cipher

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    Yes, that is perfectly clear :)
    And you're pretty much spot-on as to why many people enjoy these races :cheers:
     
  10. VelvetGlove

    VelvetGlove

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    32
    You are not missing a thing with Gr4 if you like Gr2. But Gr3 is super super challenging. ;) It just a tiny bit slower then Gr2 to me. ;) I don't like Gr2 at all, I can stand Gr3 even if I'm not super huge fan of it. I'm crazy about Gr4. :D I absolutely love it. :D It's your driving style which depands which division you like. I'm super huge fan of Gr4. ;)
     
  11. Skyline_R34

    Skyline_R34

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    107
    Gr.4 cars are the most fun to drive while also being just a level above the stock versions. When I tune my cars irl, I want them similar to the Gr.4 minus the decals and gutted interior. Subtly aggressive driving and appearance while keeping the look of the stock version. Gr. 4 Gives me that feeling much better than the Gr.3 or N### would.

    There are some stock cars I prefer over the Gr.3-4 versions though, like the German cars.
     
  12. NevilleNobody

    NevilleNobody

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    339
    The entire game is a flat driving experience, excellent racing but the actual driving is meh at best.

    If you want to drive, got to pcars2, that's driving. This is racing.
     
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  13. Felix

    Felix Premium

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    448
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    I am not a fast or successful racer in game. I like the GR3 events, because I am a fan of WEC and GT racing. I really don't like the races where you have road cars and sports tyres. The amount of grip the sports tyres gives, seems to change every few updates and it goes from an enjoyable level of grip, to racing on ice.

    The GR4 series can be fun, but the balance of performance is really out of whack, so you've got a couple of cars that have a really big advantage over the other cars, so you see lobbies just full of the same car over and over again.

    With the current bunch of tracks, GR3 racing is really suited to it and every now and again, you will have a room full of decent clean racer. When you get this, the racing can be really difficult to deal with, but really rewarding for each position gain.

    Personally, the only thing I wish to happen, is for GR3 and GR2 to be able to race together, as it is very much like the JGTC GT300 and GT500 race series in Japan.
     
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  14. vvise

    vvise

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    413
    then you aren't going fast enough :)
     
  15. spidermonkey

    spidermonkey

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    Couldn't have said it better myself.
     
  16. DriftMethod

    DriftMethod

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    618
    To me, Gr. 3/4 form the core of GT Sport. It's pretty obvious that Sport Mode and the FIA championship have gotten a lot of attention from PD. The Manufacturers series is based on those cars and the Nations series uses them often as well. The ever evolving penalty system and BoP are further proof of the e-sport focus.

    Gr. 3/4 offer the greatest volume of competitive car options. Their mix of handling and speed make them usable in a race setting for just about anyone. Their drivability make them the perfect choice for actually racing other people. It's not much of a race if everyone's struggling to keep their car on track.
     
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  17. CrankyCraig

    CrankyCraig

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    3
    It's interesting you say that, as a game that marketed itself for 20 years or so as 'The Real Driving Simulator', and was acknowledged by most as such. The common complaint was always that it featured zero racing. How times have changed. I typically haven't cared very much for the alternative racing games I've tried, but I haven't played that one so I'll give it a go nevertheless.

    This is very true. The ensuing first corner carnage always seems much worse for these events, and although it is possible to get some competitive racing, it seems much more likely that your competitors will take themselves out of contention.

    I'm clearly a product of my past GT experiences, when the only way to make a race challenging was to use a car much worse than the AI opponents, but as such have gotten used to the difficult cars and now quite enjoy them. The Gr.3/4 events, I agree, tend to be more competitive. My feeling with these has always been that they should better reward those drivers who don't utilise the driving aids (I'm not in that category BTW), because while some aids clearly inhibit performance, some offer benefits that are offset by very marginal/negligible, or possibly even non existent negatives. Perhaps I've not been looking at the bigger picture, though.
     
  18. pedrocor

    pedrocor

    Messages:
    481
    You're absolutely right. These cars are build to be relatively easy to drive by drivers with very different ranges of experience and skills. The pro drivers will be faster but not by a considerable margin. GTE cars are very different, they have much less driving aids (like no ABS), rely much more on cornering speed and less on top speed, so we can see the amateur drivers on GTE Am struggling a lot more than the guys in GT3 racing.
     
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  19. Sander 001

    Sander 001

    Messages:
    1,279
    Of course I can try. Because of the difficulty in getting the cars around the track, it can sometimes feel much more like a battle between you and your car than you and your opponent. Surprising as it might be, a lot of people can't get anywhere near the fastest possible times, and so there could be several seconds between your best and that of your opponents just one position behind you, which means, you don't necessarily need to be consistent to beat them. In other events, such as Gr.3 and Gr.4 typically, there tends to be a much smaller difference between the lap times of the first 10, so staying consistently close to your best is more important. Is that a bit clearer?

    I've no real life experience with competitive racing in anything other than 2 stroke karts, so I have absolutely no idea how a Gr.3 or Gr.4 should handle. I would have expected them to be easy to break traction and spin if not careful, but I would have never imagined them to be 'easy' to drive.

    Neither have I held a top 10 position in the rankings, nor am I likely to given my casual approach to the game, but if I were to chase a lap time, I'd much rather be doing it in a difficult car than a Gr.3 or Gr.4.

    Don't misunderstand, I enjoy a variety of events, but I know that some can't stand to be racing anything other than the 'Racing - Super Glue' tyres, which I'm typically not keen on. To each their own and all, I'm just trying to see the appeal.[/QUOTE]
    They’re very far from super glue tires. Don’t believe me? Try going to an oval track, go to a steep banked corner and come to a complete stop. Try accelerating and see how super glue tires they actually are!
     
  20. Ryan Sandall

    Ryan Sandall

    Messages:
    166
    The way I think of it is you’ve got twenty guys potentially all trying to do the exact same thing (win the race/ go faster than everyone) whether the car is difficult to drive or easy you’ve still gotta beat them.

    I prefer one make cos I know it’s down to me to make the difference,

    Of course these two classes are popular also because they are the majority featured in sport mode and are relatively well balanced, also Gr4 and Gr3 have their challenges depending on how hard your having to drive. Gr4 you have to be really early on the power and high corner speed often to get the most out of the car with precise lines, kerb use and all sorts, with group 3 you can have it a bit more point and shoot true but you’ve still gotta be on it earlier than anyone else and braking later than everyone else or taking more corner speed other wise you ain’t getting no where

    If your winning every race easily then fair enough mate they would t have much appeal to me either
    Also BOP is pretty good in both classes up until Megane came in Gr4
    Yeah some are strong some aren’t but most are competitive so it’s garunteed close competitive racing