Gran Turismo 7: Latest news and discussion thread

[twitcher]

There's a difference between not starting from scratch and building upon established models, and "the car models in GT Sport are ported over straight from GT6…straight from GT5 as a matter of fact".

What you said was literally not true. Straight porting suggests that they were carried over with no changes at all. Porting of assets in general is assumed to be without changes unless specified otherwise. It's nit-picky, but the reason people took issue was the specific language that you used.

Models that are upgraded versions of models from previous generations generally aren't referred to as ports, as there's pretty limited value these days in differentiating between models that are wholly new and models that are build upon other historical models. If a model is not identical to what has appeared in other games and meets the standards of the game it appears in, then few people actually care how the developers got there.

Fair enough, I see your point.

Perhaps then I’m misunderstanding the approach that PD took starting with GT5, and the so-called “premium models”. To my understanding, for the transition from 6 to Sport, it’s not so much that PD added more detail to the cars, rather, the PS4 unlocked more detail that was already coded in. During the whole issue over the “standard models”, I recall PD explaining that for the premium models, they were programming detail beyond what the PS3 could handle, in anticipation of future generations. The reason being, they didn’t want to get stuck in the same hole that GT4 left them in - the hole being that PS2 era models could not up used as a base for creating “premium” models. Based on PD’s approach of “1 artist 1 car”, there’s not enough hours and manpower to start the car catalog from scratch with each new console generation.

All that said, I accept that the transition from 6 to Sport was more involved than a simple copy/paste, and the same will be true for Sport to 7.


——

Completely unrelated to above, not directed at Imari specifically:

Do we know if GT7 will be P2P, or have dedicated servers?

 

[MisterWaffles]

Do we know if GT7 will be P2P, or have dedicated servers?

It's Peer to Peer for online lobbies and dedicated servers for Sport Mode, just like the previous entry.

 

[Vspectra]

Fair enough, I see your point.

Perhaps then I’m misunderstanding the approach that PD took starting with GT5, and the so-called “premium models”. To my understanding, for the transition from 6 to Sport, it’s not so much that PD added more detail to the cars, rather, the PS4 unlocked more detail that was already coded in. During the whole issue over the “standard models”, I recall PD explaining that for the premium models, they were programming detail beyond what the PS3 could handle, in anticipation of future generations. The reason being, they didn’t want to get stuck in the same hole that GT4 left them in - the hole being that PS2 era models could not up used as a base for creating “premium” models. Based on PD’s approach of “1 artist 1 car”, there’s not enough hours and manpower to start the car catalog from scratch with each new console generation.

All that said, I accept that the transition from 6 to Sport was more involved than a simple copy/paste, and the same will be true for Sport to 7.

Kaz wanted GT5 models to be the beginning of building future-proof car models, but PD only came to discover techniques with tessellation and having infinite polygonal budget with GT6, in which if you look at all of the new-to-series cars in GT6 vs returning GT5 premium cars, you'll notice the GT6 models have perfectly rounded edges while the returning cars from GT5 still had very noticeable polygonal edges (so there was essentially premium vs super premium in GT6 alongside the standard ps2 ports and semi-premium ps2 remake models). In GTSport, the returning cars that were premium in GT5 have been completely rebuilt from scratch if you look at the comparisons, while some of the GT6 models look like ports with reworked PBR materials.

For GTSport to GT7 models, they look practically identical and a straight port to me, so I think Kaz/PD finally reached that goal of future-proof car modeling with GTSport era.

 

[ScottPuss20]

Fair enough, I see your point.

Perhaps then I’m misunderstanding the approach that PD took starting with GT5, and the so-called “premium models”. To my understanding, for the transition from 6 to Sport, it’s not so much that PD added more detail to the cars, rather, the PS4 unlocked more detail that was already coded in. During the whole issue over the “standard models”, I recall PD explaining that for the premium models, they were programming detail beyond what the PS3 could handle, in anticipation of future generations. The reason being, they didn’t want to get stuck in the same hole that GT4 left them in - the hole being that PS2 era models could not up used as a base for creating “premium” models. Based on PD’s approach of “1 artist 1 car”, there’s not enough hours and manpower to start the car catalog from scratch with each new console generation.

All that said, I accept that the transition from 6 to Sport was more involved than a simple copy/paste, and the same will be true for Sport to 7.

OK this discussion has just got me thinking- maybe PD were hesitant in making a full-fat GT title because they were remaking the assets from the scratch. The amount of content they created from the release of GT6 to GT Sport wasn't enough for a "proper" GT game so PD dropped the naming convention. Good decision IMO because the GT7 we'll end up getting is way bigger than what PD could do 4 years ago, making it worthy of a numbered iteration. We can sulk all we like about the past but that's a waste of time. The worst of it is over so we can look forward to better tracks, better cars and better features! As the saying goes, "to take a step forward you need to take two steps back" and that's what PD did by starting again on x86 architecture.

 

[Digity]

For those of you talking about how hard it is to score a PS5, have you even really tried? I'm not talking about popping into a store you're walking by and asking if there are any Playstations in but actually looking online.

I got one at launch, my brother (who barely touches his) got one last Christmas, and well over half my PSN friends list has one. A bunch of people I know haven't had much issue getting one either (here in Canada).

It took me a week to find one once I actually tried. Once GT7 had a release date is when I first started looking. Found a Discord group that has knowledge of drop dates to stores. Woke up one morning, saw a Best Buy near by was receiving some that day. Went in and sure enough they had them. I'm also in Canada.

 

[Imari]

Perhaps then I’m misunderstanding the approach that PD took starting with GT5, and the so-called “premium models”. To my understanding, for the transition from 6 to Sport, it’s not so much that PD added more detail to the cars, rather, the PS4 unlocked more detail that was already coded in. During the whole issue over the “standard models”, I recall PD explaining that for the premium models, they were programming detail beyond what the PS3 could handle, in anticipation of future generations.

The reason why we probably saw all the detail available is photomodes. GT5 already had a fairly robust photomode which took several seconds to render the final shot. There was no reason not to use the highest available fidelity version of the model for that, even if that high fidelity model was well beyond what could be rendered in a live playable game mode.

It makes total sense to describe a model as "beyond what the PS3 can handle" if it can't be rendered in live gameplay, but that didn't mean that the model couldn't be used in photomode where time to process a single frame could be relatively long.

GT6 then introduced adaptive tesselation, but it was clear that it was only available on some cars. That's the first sign that the GT5 cars at least were already lacking features compared to what was being produced at the time. The same arguments can be made for photomode in GT6, there's no reason why photomode shots shouldn't have been rendered using the highest quality available models even if they weren't suitable for gameplay.

Come GTS those photomode-only models were now suitable for gameplay, but Polyphony took the opportunity to improve them further. If you look at comparison shots not only can you see the differences, but you can tell that there's almost no way that the GT6 model was only a simplified version of the GTS model. Sometimes maybe but mostly not, and if most of them have been improved then it's a fair assumption that all of them were.

And the whole thing sort of shows the folly of trying to future proof models like this. It assumes that the only advancements are going to be in rendering more polygons. But that's a stupid assumption and it was pretty clear that it was stupid in 2010. There's any number of features that go into making a good model beyond pure polygon count.

OK this discussion has just got me thinking- maybe PD were hesitant in making a full-fat GT title because they were remaking the assets from the scratch. The amount of content they created from the release of GT6 to GT Sport wasn't enough for a "proper" GT game so PD dropped the naming convention. Good decision IMO because the GT7 we'll end up getting is way bigger than what PD could do 4 years ago, making it worthy of a numbered iteration.

I mean, I think GT1 and GT3 were pretty worthy games. I'm of the opinion that GT3 is the best Gran Turismo game so I'm not so sold on the argument that GTS isn't a "proper" Gran Turismo game just because it's got less content.

The whole "GT games must have massive amounts of cars" thing only came about after GT4, and it's pretty arbitrary. Of the 7 current mainline Gran Turismo games, 3 of them are "small". That's not really an outlier.

 

[Cayit]

Hopefuly GT7 does'nt get(again) delayed beyond the March'22 release date...

 

[CBH]

Delete because of double post issues with this website I am getting , and Moderator please delete post.

​

 

[CBH]

Hopefuly GT7 does'nt get(again) delayed beyond the March'22 release date...

As long as the new covid-19 variant strain does not spread around the world, then we may get a March'22 release.

 

[dacc10]

It took me a week to find one once I actually tried. Once GT7 had a release date is when I first started looking. Found a Discord group that has knowledge of drop dates to stores. Woke up one morning, saw a Best Buy near by was receiving some that day. Went in and sure enough they had them. I'm also in Canada.

Why are people trying to convince others that getting a PS5 is easy? The number of consoles will still be limited at the store, no matter how many "tips and tricks" they come up with. If said store has 5 PS5's available, and 10 people go there, half of them won't get one. Imagine being the 6th person on the line, and find out the last has been sold to the person in front of you. All those tips worth nothing. And this is assuming that there's not someone buying all of them, to sell online for a higher price.

And this all started with people complaining about the cross-gen play, which, agree with it or not, was a decision made months ago, which they surely had a reason to do so.

 

[Nowax]

There's a difference between not starting from scratch and building upon established models, and "the car models in GT Sport are ported over straight from GT6…straight from GT5 as a matter of fact".

It's funny because the early days of continuous DLCs for GTS, everyone said that the models were done from scratch.

 

[twitcher]

Why are people trying to convince others that getting a PS5 is easy? The number of consoles will still be limited at the store, no matter how many "tips and tricks" they come up with. If said store has 5 PS5's available, and 10 people go there, half of them won't get one. Imagine being the 6th person on the line, and find out the last has been sold to the person in front of you. All those tips worth nothing. And this is assuming that there's not someone buying all of them, to sell online for a higher price.

And this all started with people complaining about the cross-gen play, which, agree with it or not, was a decision made months ago, which they surely had a reason to do so.

The reason….money.

It’s a short term solution to unforeseen circumstances (covid and micro chips), that will have the long term effect of GT7 being a PS4 game that can be played on PS5 with shiny graphics.

We’re going to be waiting until GT8 for a true next gen GT game.

 

[Canucks_9419]

I hope we get to see something new at the GTC finals next weekend, so these circular debates based mostly on speculation can cool off again.. 🥴

 

[Stephan]

I hope we get to see something new at the GTC finals next weekend, so these circular debates based mostly on speculation can cool off again.. 🥴

Well looks like we may get one in regards to the Porsche VGT.

 

[CBH]

The reason….money.

It’s a short term solution to unforeseen circumstances (covid and micro chips), that will have the long term effect of GT7 being a PS4 game that can be played on PS5 with shiny graphics.

We’re going to be waiting until GT8 for a true next gen GT game.

By the time GT8 comes out well it maybe a cross gen anyway with a PS6.

There is nothing wrong having a cross-play between the PS4 and PS5 for GT7, because you are still going to get a dam good game, and it does not mater what console you have got.

 

[FPV MIC]

If online lobbies were seperate between PS5 and PS4, it’s no issue. But since there’s cross generation lobbies, GT7 will be limited by the PS4 for the entirety of its lifespan (or until PD shuts off PS4 access to online GT7 lobbies, which will never happen).

While I do think the FIA portion of the game will be limited by cross generation lobbies due to the online numbers required for matchmaking I'm not so sure all lobbies will. Many cross gen titles have options to run PS5 only lobbies with increased number of participants so I don't see why PD couldn't also offer something similar to this... unless of course PD just wanna PD

 

[Digity]

Why are people trying to convince others that getting a PS5 is easy? The number of consoles will still be limited at the store, no matter how many "tips and tricks" they come up with. If said store has 5 PS5's available, and 10 people go there, half of them won't get one. Imagine being the 6th person on the line, and find out the last has been sold to the person in front of you. All those tips worth nothing. And this is assuming that there's not someone buying all of them, to sell online for a higher price.

And this all started with people complaining about the cross-gen play, which, agree with it or not, was a decision made months ago, which they surely had a reason to do so.

Because if you apply yourself even just a bit, you can get one. I see them hitting stores and online only deals daily.

 

[Yard_Sale]

Because if you apply yourself even just a bit, you can get one. I see them hitting stores and online only deals daily.

Where are you getting your notifications? I’ve been trying to get one for weeks every time a Best Buy or Walmart notification comes up. I’ve gotten denied every time I try

 

[FPV MIC]

Because if you apply yourself even just a bit, you can get one. I see them hitting stores and online only deals daily.

It may be like that where you are and while I do already have one I can assure you it's not like that where I live and probably many other places.

Edit:

''Nearly 12 months to the day since the PS5's initial launch, and actually buying the thing in Australia is still super hard.''

Where to buy a PS5 in Australia: the best outlets and sweetest deals for April 2024

PS5 is no longer tough to get, but we're here to show you where to look for deals.

www.gamesradar.com

 

[Digity]

Where are you getting your notifications? I’ve been trying to get one for weeks every time a Best Buy or Walmart notification comes up. I’ve gotten denied every time I try

A public discord server that has knowledge of the drop dates. It's only for Canadian retailers.

It may be like that where you are and while I do already have one I can assure you it's not like that where I live and probably many other places.

Edit:

''Nearly 12 months to the day since the PS5's initial launch, and actually buying the thing in Australia is still super hard.''

Where to buy a PS5 in Australia: the best outlets and sweetest deals for April 2024

PS5 is no longer tough to get, but we're here to show you where to look for deals.

www.gamesradar.com

Yes, that's why I specified that I'm in Canada. My initial comment was replying to someone from the same Country. I don't see why similar resources wouldn't be available in other parts of the world, if not 🤷‍♂️

 

[CBH]

Because if you apply yourself even just a bit, you can get one. I see them hitting stores and online only deals daily.

It depends where you live and luck but in Australia I spent many months searching for a PS5, but I ended up getting one online department store.

And you say them hitting stores and online only deals daily, the online daily deals I can see are on ebay.

 

[Digity]

It depends where you live and luck but in Australia I spent many months searching for a PS5, but I ended up getting one online department store.

And you say them hitting stores and online only deals daily, the online daily deals I can see are on ebay.

Was a new newegg.ca deal today, Gamestop just had one as well.

 

[twitcher]

By the time GT8 comes out well it maybe a cross gen anyway with a PS6.

There is nothing wrong having a cross-play between the PS4 and PS5 for GT7, because you are still going to get a dam good game, and it does not mater what console you have got.

There’s a LOT wrong with cross generation lobbies if it means PS5 users will be limited by PS4 limitations.

You and I play GT games extremely differently (we’ve had extensive discussion in the past), so while cross generation may not be an issue for you, it is a massive issue for me.

If GT7 will be restricted by PS4 limitations, then I have no desire to start the grind from scratch, I would much rather just keep my GT Sport garage, liveries, and decals.

While I do think the FIA portion of the game will be limited by cross generation lobbies due to the online numbers required for matchmaking I'm not so sure all lobbies will. Many cross gen titles have options to run PS5 only lobbies with increased number of participants so I don't see why PD couldn't also offer something similar to this... unless of course PD just wanna PD

That may end up being the case, but that split will devastate many online groups and communities. I saw it happen with the transition from 5 to 6, I watched it happen again from 6 to Sport, I even watched it happen going from PCARS1 to PCARS2.

As an example, the GT drift community never fully recovered from the transition from 5 to 6, and going from 6 to Sport was the nail in the coffin. Now, the GT online drift community is a tiny shadow of its former self.

Additionally, I fully agree that FIA type stuff would have to be cross generation, and as such, PS5 users would be restricted to using a physics model that the PS4 can handle. With that in mind, you don’t want physics between an FIA mixed lobby and a PS5 exclusive user created lobby to have different physics, just like you wouldn’t want to have single player physics be different than an FIA lobby. So that leads to even single player PS5 users, or PS5 exclusive lobbies, being held back by the PS4 limitations.

And if we’re not getting a significantly improved physics model with PS5 GT7….why are we starting a new game from scratch?? All the other content could be patched into GT Sport, sold as DLC, so we didn’t have to start the grind from scratch.

You don’t need a brand new game engine just for shinier graphics. Countless games I’ve played have the graphics majorly overhauled part way through the game’s life. World of Warcraft is the best example, but Elder Scrolls Online is another one, World of Warships on PC is another example. These games are almost 10 years old, people are still playing the same game, same account, but the graphics are massively improved from what they were when those games first launched.

 

[Yard_Sale]

Forgive my ignorance…. But what are these “discord” things I keep hearing people talk about?

 

[HarVee]

Forgive my ignorance…. But what are these “discord” things I keep hearing people talk about?

Discord is a messaging platform designed for gamers. It allows people to voice and text chat, as well as send video, images and other files. Discord has a feature that allows people to set up servers for their favourite hobbies and interests and invite people to join said servers.

It's a very useful app to have if you're into gaming and gaming related things.

 

[FPV MIC]

Yes, that's why I specified that I'm in Canada. My initial comment was replying to someone from the same Country. I don't see why similar resources wouldn't be available in other parts of the world, if not 🤷‍♂️

There are some resources I've heard of but because they sell so quickly it's often not practical for people to be online at that exact time. The last Amazon drop was gone in less than 30 minutes. Maybe PS5 isn't quite as popular on a per capita basis in your country?

That may end up being the case, but that split will devastate many online groups and communities. I saw it happen with the transition from 5 to 6, I watched it happen again from 6 to Sport, I even watched it happen going from PCARS1 to PCARS2.

As an example, the GT drift community never fully recovered from the transition from 5 to 6, and going from 6 to Sport was the nail in the coffin. Now, the GT online drift community is a tiny shadow of its former self.

Additionally, I fully agree that FIA type stuff would have to be cross generation, and as such, PS5 users would be restricted to using a physics model that the PS4 can handle. With that in mind, you don’t want physics between an FIA mixed lobby and a PS5 exclusive user created lobby to have different physics, just like you wouldn’t want to have single player physics be different than an FIA lobby. So that leads to even single player PS5 users, or PS5 exclusive lobbies, being held back by the PS4 limitations.

And if we’re not getting a significantly improved physics model with PS5 GT7….why are we starting a new game from scratch?? All the other content could be patched into GT Sport, sold as DLC, so we didn’t have to start the grind from scratch.

You don’t need a brand new game engine just for shinier graphics. Countless games I’ve played have the graphics majorly overhauled part way through the game’s life. World of Warcraft is the best example, but Elder Scrolls Online is another one, World of Warships on PC is another example. These games are almost 10 years old, people are still playing the same game, same account, but the graphics are massively improved from what they were when those games first launched.

PS5 owners are going to be limited to some extent by the PS4 no matter what because it will be basically the same game but GT7 will have (supposedly) some sort of dynamic time and weather that probably couldn't just be added to GT Sport. If the online open lobby capabilities can be split there's a fair chance they'll run better in adverse conditions and also have the possibility of larger numbers of players (edit: for the PS5 players).

Forgive my ignorance…. But what are these “discord” things I keep hearing people talk about?

I only just heard of this a couple of weeks back and I'm still not sure how they work

 

[Digity]

There are some resources I've heard of but because they sell so quickly it's often not practical for people to be online at that exact time. The last Amazon drop was gone in less than 30 minutes. Maybe PS5 isn't quite as popular on a per capita basis in your country?

Very likely.

 

[CBH]

There’s a LOT wrong with cross generation lobbies if it means PS5 users will be limited by PS4 limitations.

You and I play GT games extremely differently (we’ve had extensive discussion in the past), so while cross generation may not be an issue for you, it is a massive issue for me.

If GT7 will be restricted by PS4 limitations, then I have no desire to start the grind from scratch, I would much rather just keep my GT Sport garage, liveries, and decals.

If I was worried about GT7 limitations because of the cross gen with the PS4 I would not stay on GT Sport, because it is not a numbered game. We have to wait & see about the Liveries going from GT Sport to GT7, but who knows it may happen.

 

[twitcher]

There are some resources I've heard of but because they sell so quickly it's often not practical for people to be online at that exact time. The last Amazon drop was gone in less than 30 minutes. Maybe PS5 isn't quite as popular on a per capita basis in your country?

PS5 owners are going to be limited to some extent by the PS4 no matter what because it will be basically the same game but GT7 will have (supposedly) some sort of dynamic time and weather that probably couldn't just be added to GT Sport. If the online open lobby capabilities can be split there's a fair chance they'll run better in adverse conditions and also have the possibility of larger numbers of players (edit: for the PS5 players).


I only just heard of this a couple of weeks back and I'm still not sure how they work

I agree that if the lobbies can be split or restricted to PS5 only, then those lobbies could have more advanced features.

But like I’ve said many times now, I do not see how a PS4 will be able to handle dynamic time, weather, track conditions, plus extensive vehicle customization.

So with that in mind, if the FIA and Spirt Mode lobbies will be split….does that mean we can’t really have dynamic time, weather, and track conditions in Sport Mode races? We’re just going to get a carbon copy of what we have now, with fixed conditions?

Again, why are we starting the grind over again in a new game if we’re not going to be able to fully enjoy the supposed new features of the new game?

I know I’m doing a lot of speculating in this thread, but after decades of dealing with PD, I can’t help but fear the worst.

Hell, at this point, we don’t even know what the online content will be. Is Sport Mode going to be expanded upon?? Or due to GT7 being focused on all this nostalgia single player stuff, will Sport Mode take a back seat and be the exact same as it is right now?

I think people need to realize that there is a small chance that Sport Mode could go the way of Shuffle Racing…disappear and never be heard from again. If spreadsheet says less than 10% of GTS players played Sport Mode, it’s not out of the realm of possibility.

And there’s content creators who’s livelihoods depend on this information, who are currently hanging by a string with no clue what they’ll be doing with their life 4-6 months from now.

 

[Lux Klonoa]

Discord is a messaging platform designed for gamers. It allows people to voice and text chat, as well as send video, images and other files. Discord has a feature that allows people to set up servers for their favourite hobbies and interests and invite people to join said servers.

It's a very useful app to have if you're into gaming and gaming related things.

...Basically Skype but better, is what he's trying to say. No need to sound like a Wikipedia article, really. lol

But yeah, very useful.