Gran Turismo: A Conflicted Driving Experience?

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MX5Racer69

MX5Racer69

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MX5_Racer_69
I've been obsessed with Gran Turismo for the last five years or so. The game is responsible for introducing me to many great friends over the years. And it is the primary reason that I bought a sports car and now teach High Speed Driving Education classes at our local track. So it holds a special place in my heart.

I am writing today to talk about a conflict I feel with this game that I've begun to notice and one that I think Kaz and company need to look at very closely. I believe this game has two personalities. And because of that, there are two distinct groups of fans that buy the game and get different things from it. I am going to label those two groups:

1. Car enthusiasts.
2. Racing enthusiasts.

A car enthusiast geeks out about cars. The more the merrier. Some want them to be historically accurate. Others want them in every color in the rainbow, dropped and customized. But to these fans of the franchise, it's all about the cars in their garage and being able to drive a wide assortment of different vehicles in different settings. Photo mode is a big feature for these guys, as is cruising.

On the other side of the isle are the racing enthusiasts. These guys want to simulate the races they see on TV. They want to hone their driving skills in a simulator. They want to then show off these skills online by racing against their friends and others in a way that is consistent with real racing. These guys care about tracks, physics and the ability to customize online races more than anything else. I belong to this second group.

All of us have some measure of the car enthusiast in us as well as the racing enthusiast. Where we fall on that scale determines how we spend most of our time in the game.

With that said, here is the problem that I see. It has taken me several years of watching new GT releases come out to realize that Gran Turismo is not a racing game, it's a driving game. It's heritage and fan base comes primarily from the car enthusiast ranks. All of that is fine because it is a pretty good driving simulator (if they could simulate a clutch, it would be great). But if the game is primarily a driving simulator, then why is every single driving location a race track of some sort? That is what bothers me.

I believe that there are really two games here that could be released separately. I would buy both both of them. Using the same physics and rendering engine, PD could release a driving game (something akin to Forza Horizon 2) where you get to drive the cars in your garage along mountain roads at high speeds and driving with your friends. And then they could release a racing game that focused on track, leagues, spec racing, etc. Again, I would be interested in both because there are times when I just want to drive toy exotic cars around and there are times when I want to race with a simulated race car against opponents with similarly spec'd race cars. This would generate enough money for PD that they could afford to address the issues in both games, in my humble opinion. Food for thought.

What do you think?
 
Excellent insight 👍

I'm inclined more to the car enthusiast side personally. I adore cars, and I find the stories usually associated with them just as fascinating. The wide variety of machines GT6 offers to the masses is just exquisite, of course it's still not enough and I always crave more history, more things to drive and more things to do with these magnificent beasts. PD models each new car with a supreme level of detail that is rivaled by few and I commend them for their work.

I believe that both games you speak of can coexist as one, car enthusiasts and racing enthusiasts share the same common interest, just in different ways. What PD must do from here on out is expand the options available to us while making efforts to fix the issues currently at hand.
 
MX5Racer69
What do you think?
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I think you're a man after my own heart, as I feel exactly the same as you. Also, that's a great idea to have 2 games, & I'd probably buy both but spend more time in the racing game. I've made the same observation about GT being called a 'driving sim' but mostly offering people racing, it's such a contradiction in terms! I think Kaz & PD are great at modeling cars & tracks, their lighting is the best in the industry too imo. However, their game design is among some of the worst I've ever seen. I think the best ideas regarding GT come from us the community, & once a certain "Community Assisted Racing Simulator" is released, what will PD really have to offer except some shiny eye candy.
 
Good post but PD having to work on TWO games... I just can't see that happening when one game takes them years and years to get out the door and even then it's in a state of.. not-quite-so-finished. I don't see why the driving experience of country/scenic roads without worrying about time trials or races couldn't be a part of GT as it is. Like you said, for the most part the physics and driving part of the game are quite good. All they need is to add some nice long country/coastal roads for us to drive on! Kind of like my complaint about rally races. Everything is in the game to make real rally races happen, PD just needs to add real rally courses to make it more of a rally experience.

slightly off topic but I fall into driving enthusiast camp more than the racing one and this just drives me completely insane.. it's such a small pet peeve but I like to turn off the gauges and HUD and just drive on the Nurburgring without worrying about races or lap times.. yet every dang time I pass a lap time 'section' I hear that little "beep".. it can't display the section time because I turned that stuff off but there's that little BEEP telling me I passed a track section marker.. AARGH haha I just want to drive and not worry about times!! :mad: I sooo wish I could turn that stupid little beep off! :lol::lol: sorry just had to get that out..
 
I agree, and I am in the second group; probably why I spend as much time racing F1 2013; I like racing on real world tracks because I won't have that opportunity in real life; and where else can you be out of shape but still able to race ;)
 
Nicely summed up, although there might be a third group in the middle. People that want to play offline but get challenged by smart AI in a long career mode.
I don't think they need to split the game up. It can be done in one release. You could always restrict the online part to leave out cars that are in the game only to look pretty.
 
MX5Racer69
But if the game is primarily a driving simulator, then why is every single driving location a race track of some sort? That is what bothers me.
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Wonderfully written and quite true. The answer to your question is quite simple. Driving the cars, as the enthusiast wants to drive them, is something reserved for track days. If given the choice between nurburgring (as an example) or some random fake street, I'll take the ring.

Mind you, I'd love to see Stelvio pass, or Transfagarasan Highway as hill climb like events.

It also opens the door for the game to being evolving into NFS Most Wanted.
 
I am both, and there's no reason GT can't cater to both. They have the budget, the time, and the skill. I'm afraid the only reason it doesn't is due to one man's "vision"
 
I've had so many memories thanks to GT playing with my dad when I was young. Competing in championships, playing split screen, discussing budgets for builds. I also agree with the points you've stated above. I am somewhere in the middle. I am both a race enthusiast and a car enthusiast. I lean more towards the latter, but I still enjoy competitive racing.

@LVracerGT, that and the limit of current gen.
 
Problem is, GT isn't good at any of them. It's terrible as a racing game and without proper customization, sounds and consistent quality it's not great as a driving game.
 
1 Arcade Mode
2 Simulation Mode

Like GT2 right?
 
Interesting, I was explaining the exact same thing to a friend the other day almost to the word.

We have two types of playes in GT and I agree that we need 2 versions of GT because of this reason.

👍

Squanto
1 Arcade Mode
2 Simulation Mode

Like GT2 right?
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Yes, I still remeber holding those two discs in my hand. Red and blue disc I think.
 
If you look at the FM series, they do manage to combine both successfully (car love and racing), so i don't see why PD wouldn't be able to deliver something of the same quality that pleases both groups.

Also agree with @PepeMickey that GT fails on both fronts the last years. It leans more towards the car collecting but as they all still sound like crap, a big part of the pleasure of driving them goes right out the door. And as a racing game offline; it's been dull and boring since GT5.

I'm afraid that PD is a bit too vain to take over the good aspects from FM. PD seems to desperately try and give the GT series it's own identity so they make rather awkward design choices such as the race format, moon missions etcetera to be original, problem is that doesn't really work. I think Kaz is afraid that if he would suddenly make engine sounds nr. 1 priority, bring back a normal race format with standing starts and added decent customization too, people would say he is copying his American competitor... That's the only reason i can come up with that might be an explanation of their weird design choices lately = pride.

If he would be able to put water in his wine, and follow some of those good examples you would definitely end up with a GT that would please both car fanatics and race fanatics.
 
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I'm 95 percent racer and 5 percent car geek. Some of the stuff that's been done in FM and GT to appeal to the car geek/culture crowd has been ok. I mean, I guess photomode is ok and it's probably not much of a resource hog so that's good. Painting on Forza is good even though they've went a mile overboard with it I'd rather have a livery editor than not I guess. So not all of the car enthusiast stuff is bad. But I agree that both games have tipped their scales heavily towards the car lover rather than the racer.

Which I think is a very dangerous move to be honest and one that could backfire quickly. Point being, none of the car enthusiast stuff whether it's photomode, perfect sounds and models, car collector, livery editor or Autovista can stand on it's own as game. All that stuff needs a strong racing game behind it for it to mean anything or even have a home. Because if all the people that want a great racing game quit buying that stuff goes with it. No other genre I know of has a photomode, much less all that other stuff. No highly detailed gun models in COD. No paint your instruments in Rock Band. If a strong console racing game comes along and takes all the racers, it could be bad news for both franchises.
 
Like most of my friends say when I complain about the physics and what-not, they just tell me to get in my car and hit the tracks. Most of the time I do.


GT is a very good title.... it has built quite a reputation for itself. Which is why every time I turn my PS3 on, I look over to my copy of GT6, get excited, put it in, and I'm immediately bored with it after 10 minutes of gameplay.
 
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