Groom Killed on Wedding Day

People jump to conclusions far too fast in situations like this. Immediately it is "racism" with a combination of "overacting," and frankly, I'm sick of it. These officers clearly thought they were in danger and they acted. Given that one of the folks there did indeed have a lengthy criminal record, and it appeared that he was going into the car for a gun, who's to say the police were completely wrong?

...Put yourself in the same situation, how would you act?

We recently had a somewhat similar situation happen here in Grand Rapids. A police officer pulled over a driver on Black Friday for erratic behavior, with the suspicion of drunk-driving. Once the police officer approached the car, the driver freaked-out, reached for the gun in his car, and the officer pulled his firearm as well. Shots were exchanged, and the driver ended up dead.

...I'm in full support of an investigation of what happened in NYC, but we can't condemn these officers right away. What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty?

When I saw the congressman ranting and raving uncontrollably on Fox News last night, it pretty much painted a picture of "moderation" there. People need to keep a level-head, we don't want to see Los Angeles post-Rodney King again...
 
I heard about this on the news last night. At first, I automatically thought the guy deserved it. Cops don't shoot, unless they have a very good reason to. Then they said that cops fired 50 rounds......... Tell me, did I hear them right? Did the cops really shoot 50 times at this guy?

Also, now, Brian's mentioning NYPD. More and more, I'm starting to question this shooting. I will read the full article, when I get a chance.
 
YSSMAN
People jump to conclusions far too fast in situations like this.
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Agreed.

Immediately it is "racism" with a combination of "overacting," and frankly, I'm sick of it. These officers clearly thought they were in danger and they acted. Given that one of the folks there did indeed have a lengthy criminal record, and it appeared that he was going into the car for a gun, who's to say the police were completely wrong?
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The police shot at the car as the driver was trying to drive away; mistake #1. One of the officers fired alone fired 31 times; mistake #2.

...Put yourself in the same situation, how would you act?
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If someone jumped on top of the hood my SHO pointing a gun at me I would've dropped the clutch and took off as fast as possible; if he had identified himself as a police officer I would have shut the car off and put my hands in plain view. There are conflicting stories as to whether or not the cop identified himself as such, so I'm going to reserve judgement there.

We recently had a somewhat similar situation happen here in Grand Rapids. A police officer pulled over a driver on Black Friday for erratic behavior, with the suspicion of drunk-driving. Once the police officer approached the car, the driver freaked-out, reached for the gun in his car, and the officer pulled his firearm as well. Shots were exchanged, and the driver ended up dead.

...I'm in full support of an investigation of what happened in NYC, but we can't condemn these officers right away. What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty?
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I admit that being "innocent until proven guilty" is important. The problem I have with this situation is that it isn't an isolated incident. This has happened before.

When I saw the congressman ranting and raving uncontrollably on Fox News last night, it pretty much painted a picture of "moderation" there. People need to keep a level-head, we don't want to see Los Angeles post-Rodney King again...
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You're right... that was a disaster and I don't want to see that happen where I live, but something stinks about this situation. I've read at least 10 different articles on this and each story is slightly different. I'll wait until I can find more concrete information before I make any judgements... but from what I have so far, those cops overreacted -- whether race was involved or not.

a6m5
I heard about this on the news last night. At first, I automatically thought the guy deserved it. Cops don't shoot, unless they have a very good reason to. Then they said that cops fired 50 rounds......... Tell me, did I hear them right? Did the cops really shoot 50 times at this guy?

Also, now, Brian's mentioning NYPD. More and more, I'm starting to question this shooting. I will read the full article, when I get a chance.
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One cop fired 3 shots, one 11, the other 31 -- if I remember correctly (the latter I'm positive on).
 
The news station here reported 5 cops who shot 10 shots. They say the driver rammed a car and almost injured an officer, forcing them to open fire.
 
Omnis
The news station here reported 5 cops who shot 10 shots. They say the driver rammed a car and almost injured an officer, forcing them to open fire.
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I apologize for still not having read that article, but if the cops were firing to stop a vehicle, it could be justifiable. Hard to judge without a video, or actually being there though.
 
Omnis
The news station here reported 5 cops who shot 10 shots. They say the driver rammed a car and almost injured an officer, forcing them to open fire.
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5 cops total is correct. The number of shots fired is wrong.

http://news.bostonherald.com/national/view.bg?articleid=169264


The police department’s policy on shooting at moving vehicles states: "Police officers shall not discharge their firearms at or from a moving vehicle unless deadly force is being used against the police officers or another person present, by means other than a moving vehicle."
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I was just gonna quote the mayor's comment on that policy. I ask why not? Let's say I was a driver trying to get away from a cop. If I decide to takeout the cop with my car, I don't think it is any different than me aiming at the cop with a gun. Just my two cents on that.

As for the incident, it looks bad for both the victim of the shooting and the cops. Final report should be interesting. It's quite a mess.
 
Omnis
The news station here reported 5 cops who shot 10 shots. They say the driver rammed a car and almost injured an officer, forcing them to open fire.
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Officers are trained not to use excessive force. It's still our natural reaction to defend ourselves. Even if there had been 70 shots, good. The suspect should have obeyed the authorities. If a car was almost run into me, I'd shoot 50 times. Hell, depending the amount of fear and mixture of adrenaline, I'd load up another 50 just in case he got up.
 
Jjacks
Officers are trained not to use excessive force. It's still our natural reaction to defend ourselves. Even if there had been 70 shots, good. The suspect should have obeyed the authorities. If a car was almost run into me, I'd shoot 50 times. Hell, depending the amount of fear and mixture of adrenaline, I'd load up another 50 just in case he got up.
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Did you read the whole article though, Jjacks? If the man was clearly trying to runover the cops, then I wouldn't have too much problem with the car getting shot up either, but the cop who stopped the car was a plainclothes cop. Also, there was something shady going on with them, another party, and possibly with these undercover cops inside the club.

I usually side with the cops on something like this, but this one sounds bit complicated.
 
Jjacks
Actually, no. :P

Upon further investigation, I'm not sure I even understand what happened, even after reading the article.
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I know what you mean. Like I said earlier, quite a mess.
 
Jjacks
Officers are trained not to use excessive force. It's still our natural reaction to defend ourselves. Even if there had been 70 shots, good. The suspect should have obeyed the authorities. If a car was almost run into me, I'd shoot 50 times. Hell, depending the amount of fear and mixture of adrenaline, I'd load up another 50 just in case he got up.
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And if they failed to identify themselves as police officers? Then what?
 
MrktMkr1986
5 cops total is correct. The number of shots fired is wrong.

http://news.bostonherald.com/national/view.bg?articleid=169264
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well, 5 cops and 50 shots gives a 10 shot average. Assuming they're using Glock 18's, that's roughly half the clip -- it's not like there were there draining magazines into the ride. But, the news station reported that the driver rammed something. Haha. I wouldn't doubt the ramming being of deadly force had the officer been pinned in-between. They came out of a bachelor party... maybe they had some illegal stuff. I'm just as confused as most people are about this, though. For all we know, Al Sharpton could've paid the police so he could have something to condemn. What a mess.
 
I know this is in bad taste, but if I planned my batchelor party the night before my wedding, my wife would have killed me first. And mine was a comparatively tame affair compared to the dozens of stories (and events) I've endured.

From reading the two articles, it sounds as if the shooting was justified, although it is possible that the victim reacted with "fear" when an officer was on the hood of his car. But some of his other actions seem like attack moves on officers. Form what it seems, though, there's really not much evidence that it was a racially-motivated incident.

I will say that some of the worst elements of society frequent strip clubs, which is why I avoid them without much of a second thought.
 
MrktMkr1986
One cop fired 3 shots, one 11, the other 31 -- if I remember correctly (the latter I'm positive on).
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So one cop emptied his clip and stopped to reload and empty another clip TWICE?!

Forgive me for finding that a little hard to believe.
 
I doubt it's racially motivated, the problem is so far the main bit's I'm getting are from the officers stories, and the stories from the guys in the car that survived conflict with them. The undercover officer first off, should not have been screaming "he has a gun" while shooting at the car having no shots fired back on him or no sight of a gun at all. He acted too quickly. If the guy did try to ram him and he'd identified himself as a police officer as the officer claims then I'd be leaning towards to officers side in this matter. If the other guys in the car are right and the officer did not identify himself as an officer, then he should be kicked out of the force, simple as that imo. His failure to identify himself has led to an innocent man being shot dead and two other men being wounded which is not acceptable imo. Imo it all comes down to which account of what happened is true regarding the officer identifying himself.
 
Duke
Forgive me for finding that a little hard to believe.
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That's what I heard on every news channel, so yes, believe it or not.

The guy could have been down already with only 4 shots, so it's not really hard to believe that a cop can reload his gun and bother to keep shooting. He had the time to do it, and that was the problem.






Ciao!
 
The New York Post reported new details of the events, including how the undercover cop at one point climbing onto the hood of Bell's car — his gun drawn and his police shield around his neck — screaming, "Police! Turn off your car! Let me see your hands!" according to sources who talked to some of the cops involved in the shooting.

When Bell then tried to run down the plainclothes officer — twice — the cop began shooting, with some of his 11 bullets piercing the rear window of the man's Nissan Altima, the sources said
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If this part is true then I am siding with the cops.


Otherwise I have to wait to get more concrete information.
 
FormulaNone
I know this is in bad taste, but if I planned my batchelor party the night before my wedding, my wife would have killed me first. And mine was a comparatively tame affair compared to the dozens of stories (and events) I've endured.

From reading the two articles, it sounds as if the shooting was justified, although it is possible that the victim reacted with "fear" when an officer was on the hood of his car. But some of his other actions seem like attack moves on officers. Form what it seems, though, there's really not much evidence that it was a racially-motivated incident.

I will say that some of the worst elements of society frequent strip clubs, which is why I avoid them without much of a second thought.
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My news station said he was driving to his wedding FROM his bachelor party. :scared:
 
They interviewed couple of groom's friends on the ABC Nightline, tonight. It is being claimed that the plainclothes cop never identified himself as a police officer. Just drew his gun at the groom's Nissan Altima, shouted at the victims, but never said showed his badge, or say "Police!". I guess the witnesses heard everything also, and they are backing the statement. The cop did not identify himself.

Sounds like one IDIOT cop might have cost a life of an innocent man, not to mention the two other shooting victims. If a man partially jumps onto the hood of my Altima with a gun pointed at me in middle of the shady part of New York, I might panic and try to run the guy over also. Especially if he's shouting bunch of stuff at me, everything except, "Police, stop the car!".

They even showed the security camera of transit station, where one of the stray bullets busted thru the glass and nearly hit someone. Couple of cops leaving everybody and running away from the scene for cover was pretty funny.
 

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