Group C cars suddenly loose grip in every corner

[returpack]

After letting my B-Spec drivers use my Sauber Mercedes for some time to finish events I noticed it was undriveable. The car handles like it has comfort soft tires.
I thought it was time for body rigidity restore and engine overhaul, but that didn't help at all.
Throttle + turning makes the car oversteer and lose the grip completely.
This happens to all sharper turns where I go below ~200 kph.

I tested my other Group C cars with the same result.
I can't drive them anymore.

I'm pretty sure this was just after patch 1.05.
Did they change anything to the cars' handling?


Help appreciated. I really want to enjoy driving my favorite cars again


EDIT: I don't use any driving aids except TCS. I had it off too, for a while, but noticed that the car just spins in the start of every race.
I tried Skid Recovery Force to see if it would help, but it didn't.

 

[Hig-GT]

I had a similar problem to this, all you can do is make sure you have the right tyres on as B-Spec does change them (useless bit of advice everyone else will shout at you)

When I had this problem it was with my F430, I had to set it up from scratch all over again.

 

[returpack]

I had a similar problem to this, all you can do is make sure you have the right tyres on as B-Spec does change them (useless bit of advice everyone else will shout at you)

When I had this problem it was with my F430, I had to set it up from scratch all over again.

I have racing soft as I've always used. I hoped I had the wrong tires, but that was not the case.


Since it happens to the C9, XJR-9, R92CP and R89C it's strange.

I went to the settings tab and clicked "restore to default" (or whatever it says) on everything to make sure it's stock values. I still have the problem.

 

[911_RS]

Noticed the same thing recently...Z06RM used to just floor it around Indy for cash...not the case anymore...

But this is a good thing, keeping the car floored all the time is just plain unrealistic....

 

[Hig-GT]

Noticed the same thing recently...Z06RM used to just floor it around Indy for cash...not the case anymore...

But this is a good thing, keeping the car floored all the time is just plain unrealistic....

All good and well and thank you for the touching story you threw in but has anything actually changed in the physics of the game etc. that is the root causes of this?

 

[Andy89]

I like a lot group C cars, and noticed that they have too much wheelspin at low gears, so I never floor the throttle in first or second gear, sometime neither in third gear, because these cars are packing more than 800 HP with a central engine, so they tend to spin the driving wheels if you apply too much throttle at low gears. Also I haven't noticed any difference before or after the 1.05 patch.

 

[gz]

controlling these Group C beasts is very hard indeed ...
I managed to get a roughly clean lap on the Ring but I had to be extra careful with that gas ( ... eugene ? ), on a stock Sauber with Racing Hard tyres - it's drivable but almost never could I use full gas. Throttle parzialization was the key, and I didn't notice any change -good or bad- with 1.05 patch ...
With GT4 I used to get 5.55 laps with the 787b, while GT5 physics don't allow me to get lower than 6.30

 

[Andy89]

With GT4 I used to get 5.55 laps with the 787b, while GT5 physics don't allow me to get lower than 6.30

But I have to say that these times in GT4 was unrealistic. Nice avatar anyway 👍

 

[gz]

But I have to say that these times in GT4 was unrealistic. Nice avatar anyway 👍

true : GT4 laptimes where a little "optimistic"

thx for the avatar
the idea would be to find some car with as much grip as the pikasso guitar has strings and harmonics in its sound ... and to say i love Pat Metheny's Imaginary Day

 

[Andy89]

I wonder how much tension has to sustain that guitar from its strings! It has strings everywhere! Now my biggest desire is to try it

the idea would be to find some car with as much grip as the pikasso guitar has strings and harmonics in its sound ... and to say i love Pat Metheny's Imaginary Day

A car like that probably can do the caroussel at 300 km/h The X2010 is near to that level anyway!

 

[ElSecundo]

controlling these Group C beasts is very hard indeed ...
I managed to get a roughly clean lap on the Ring but I had to be extra careful with that gas ( ... eugene ? ), on a stock Sauber with Racing Hard tyres - it's drivable but almost never could I use full gas. Throttle parzialization was the key, and I didn't notice any change -good or bad- with 1.05 patch ...
With GT4 I used to get 5.55 laps with the 787b, while GT5 physics don't allow me to get lower than 6.30

Careful with that axe.
The only way I've been able to really tame the Gp C cars is via the differential. They are a mega-handful with the standard controller. Bob could do donuts with these things for hours!

 

[returpack]

Well, the strange thing is that I never felt like they were hard to control in the beginning, it was just suddenly one day it started to get messed up.

I've tried with and without TCS and both options are terrible.

Without it the cars spins around like the tires are made of soap.
With it I can get a spin free acceleration, but very slow cornering.
I still oversteer with both options.


I tried the 908 Matmut now, with the same sad result

Perhaps my destiny is to drive around Indy...



No more laps like this one (not my video)

Noticed the same thing recently...Z06RM used to just floor it around Indy for cash...not the case anymore...

But this is a good thing, keeping the car floored all the time is just plain unrealistic....

All good and well and thank you for the touching story you threw in but has anything actually changed in the physics of the game etc. that is the root causes of this?

Maybe. I also feel the RM Corvette is turning worse (not close to the Veyron, though) than it used to.

 

[will4noobs]

mm, I know what you mean

I have just tried to adjust the downforce, didn't do much, and i am alot more careful with the throttle in and out of corners

Even with the modern LMP cars (908 HDI for example) seems to slide without warning

 

[ElSecundo]

Have you tried fixing the differential settings yet? They drastically affect how torque is applied to the wheels.

 

[W3H5]

The dif can really make a dif! (Get it?)
These cars are monsters of machines and should be treated as such. I'm sure none of the real world drivers piloting these cars would dare slam the throttle through any of the first few gears. The key is smoothness, roll on the throttle just to the amount where the tyres grip, before the spin.
Takes time to master but with enough practice, most can achieve it.
The LSD is also something you can look at. If you change the initial torque to the wheels the power will come through more gradually and not be put down in one hit, therefore allowing for a gradual build up of revs, reducing the chance of wheel spin.
Hope this can help.

 

[Hig-GT]

With GT4 I used to get 5.55 laps with the 787b, while GT5 physics don't allow me to get lower than 6.30

I've done a 6.21 ...


Dif makes little difference I find, just adds understeer on my ZR1, much better with 5,5,5 and learn some throttle control.

 

[returpack]

The dif can really make a dif! (Get it?)
These cars are monsters of machines and should be treated as such. I'm sure none of the real world drivers piloting these cars would dare slam the throttle through any of the first few gears. The key is smoothness, roll on the throttle just to the amount where the tyres grip, before the spin.
Takes time to master but with enough practice, most can achieve it.
The LSD is also something you can look at. If you change the initial torque to the wheels the power will come through more gradually and not be put down in one hit, therefore allowing for a gradual build up of revs, reducing the chance of wheel spin.
Hope this can help.

Since I have no clue how to adjust them, I'd prefer if someone could give me the numbers (of course they probably differ from car to car).

 

[Hig-GT]

Limited Slip Differential
The differential essentially allows the drive wheels to spin at different speeds (only the drive wheels). This has to happen because as a car turns an apex, the inside wheel will travel a shorter distance than the outside wheel will do. A standard differential will distribute the power between the driven wheels evenly, unless one of the wheels begins to slip, the torque will then go down the path of least resistance and that one wheel will spin up, thus wasting all of the power. This is where the LSD comes into play.

Initial Torque
This value controls the dif as a whole, so it will act to increase or decrease the acceleration or deceleration settings themselves. It also determines how responsive the dif. itself is, so can be used to help control how manoeuvrable the car is.
A lower setting will increase the cars manoeuvrability but it will reduce the effect of the acceleration or deceleration settings.
(If set to 5, the LSD will act as an open dif and will spin one wheel at different speeds to the other. If set to 60, the dif will act as a locked dif thus meaning both wheels will spin at the same speed. Either values will make A & D settings redundant. The point where Initial Torque makes the other settings redundant varies from car to car.)

Acceleration Settings

This setting controls the locking level of the LSD under acceleration, it can be used to control wheel spin whilst exiting a corner, but it can also limit the cars ability to turn under acceleration.
Higher values increase traction out of corners by limiting wheel spin but it can also limit the cars ability to turn in tight corners.
Lower values reduce traction out of corners by increasing the chance of wheel spin but it improves the cars ability to turn in tighter corners.

Deceleration Settings

Controls locking under deceleration, can improve car stability when braking into a corner.
Higher values increase stability when decelerating into a corner but can limit the cars ability to turn.
Lower values reduce stability when decelerating into a corner but can improve the cars ability to turn.

 

[xanerakoly]

Limited Slip Differential
The differential essentially allows the drive wheels to spin at different speeds (only the drive wheels). This has to happen because as a car turns an apex, the inside wheel will travel a shorter distance than the outside wheel will do. A standard differential will distribute the power between the driven wheels evenly, unless one of the wheels begins to slip, the torque will then go down the path of least resistance and that one wheel will spin up, thus wasting all of the power. This is where the LSD comes into play.

Initial Torque
This value controls the dif as a whole, so it will act to increase or decrease the acceleration or deceleration settings themselves. It also determines how responsive the dif. itself is, so can be used to help control how manoeuvrable the car is.
A lower setting will increase the cars manoeuvrability but it will reduce the effect of the acceleration or deceleration settings.
(If set to 5, the LSD will act as an open dif and will spin one wheel at different speeds to the other. If set to 60, the dif will act as a locked dif thus meaning both wheels will spin at the same speed. Either values will make A & D settings redundant. The point where Initial Torque makes the other settings redundant varies from car to car.)

Acceleration Settings

This setting controls the locking level of the LSD under acceleration, it can be used to control wheel spin whilst exiting a corner, but it can also limit the cars ability to turn under acceleration.
Higher values increase traction out of corners by limiting wheel spin but it can also limit the cars ability to turn in tight corners.
Lower values reduce traction out of corners by increasing the chance of wheel spin but it improves the cars ability to turn in tighter corners.

Deceleration Settings

Controls locking under deceleration, can improve car stability when braking into a corner.
Higher values increase stability when decelerating into a corner but can limit the cars ability to turn.
Lower values reduce stability when decelerating into a corner but can improve the cars ability to turn.

This explanation is actually really useful. Bravo! I personally know how an LSD works, but for those that don't, the game's description can be somewhat vague and unhelpful in terms of how to tune it.

 

[Hig-GT]

Completely forgot to put at the end, all information about the LSD is summarised from the guides provided by scaff for GT4! (But still applies to GT5) What I have copied & pasted is my own summary of what scaff originally put in his PDF guides.