Grudge Match: Tween Pleb Edition

[YSSMAN]

Unless you've got 35 Bitcoins under your bed, it's probably pretty hard to afford the best car sold anywhere in the world right now (2014 Chevrolet Impala - GET ON THAT HYPE TRAIN). The rest of us have to make due with bargain basement hatchbacks and sedans that have... Options. Like, color - on the outside and inside! So yes, let's revive the Grudge Match series in the best way we can, by having us poor folks fight over what little things we can afford that justify our existence... It's just what the New World Order wants us to do!

THE CONTENDERS

Chevrolet Spark

It's a car! That's right, you can own one right now for the low-low price of just $12,995 you can get this super-affordable car thing! We've added a CVT to be more up-to-date, but keep things like a tiny 1.2L I4, and totally removed the CD player... Because who uses physical media? NOT YOU! You've got an iPhone - it's the only nice thing you can afford! So, c'mon, buy a Chevrolet Spark... We make it in a bajillion colors, like pink and purple, so that you can totally express your style!

Mitsubishi Mirage

Do you hate the natural elements? It's yet another vehicle that keeps you mostly insulated from the outside! For the price of 13,790 McDonald's McDoubles, you can buy me! Even in this lovely shade of pink! It's a good thing I'm the lightest car on the market right now, just like you living on your Mac and Cheese diet. Three cylinders, it's more than enough to keep you happy. Do you really need any more? You don't! But I can win where it really counts - best fuel economy that isn't a hybrid. 38 MPG, get!

Nissan Versa

Hey you! Yes, you! You like deal? You like shape? Why not pick up best shape per dollar? I make special deal - just for you. I sell Nissan Versa for less than any other car, place on dealer lot for $12,780. That is extra $200 dollar in pocket. Yes! You like, you buy! You like extra room, yes? I have biggest back seat. No more larger than need, but large enough for family, yes! So make room in garage, now! Best deal, yes!



So... Have at it. What's your Pleb vehicle of choice?

 

[homeforsummer]

This is a toughie. Two of the worst new cars I've ever driven against a car I've never driven but have very little desire to.

Head is saying Versa still - since it's the most car for the least money. Part of me likes the Spark for the fact you can drive the ass off it without ever breaking the speed limit, which is an uncommon feeling in new cars, and because it does feel like GM has put some thought into the interior and exterior design. And the ones I've driven have had good stereos. The Mirage is generally nicely engineered (good aero, frugal engine, light weight) entirely ruined by atrocious steering and suspension. So yes - a toughie.

Urgh. Against my better judgement, Versa.

 

[Stotty]

My God, I think I'd rather use public transport

That Mitsubishi is one of the ugliest cars I've ever seen (and it would be in a less offensive colour too) and the Versa isn't much better.

I'll take a Spark, but in a conservative colour - do they do invisibility paint?

By the way... PMSL at the Versa commentary

 

[Cano]

Holy snot that Mitsubishi is atrocious.

 

[Turtle]

My god this is hard. I'm going to immediately knock out the Spark because It's nasty in pretty much every way (been in it, haven't driven it though). Plus, I use CDs.

I haven't been in the other two, I haven't even seen a Mirage. I've heard terrible things about the Versa, but it isn't hideous, and I'm not expecting the Mirage to be all that great either (and according to HFS, it isn't).

So, I'll choose the Versa as well. I'm sure I could find and maintain a decent used car for less though.

 

[Murcie_LP640]

This is the sort of Grudge Match my GF would appreciate, though as we don't have the Versa here (perhaps it rebadged as the Pulsar here? Dunno) she wouldn't know what it is.

Myself if I absolutely had to I'd pick the Mirage, except not in that silly pink hue. I've driven a Barina Spark and a Mirage and while the Spark's engine is more potent I hated it that little bit more to drive than the Mirage.

Ideally though, and my GF would agree on this, I'd take a BL Mazda3 SP25 or the supermini-of-choice in my opinion, the Ford Fiesta Zetec.

 

[Mikeybc]

Best looking in stock form I think is the Spark,

Mitsbishi looks dreadfully mid 90's.

I think the car I'd buy though is the Nissan, It's a larger car and with a bit of money into low profile tires and larger wheels it could look pretty good.

 

[AudiMan2011]

Even though we don't have the Versa here in Britain, it would be the one I'd pick from those 3 since it'll likely offer the most practicality for the money and it's the better looking of the 3. Though ultimately I'd rather not have any of those 3 and go with a Dacia Sandero since it's the cheapest new car in Britain. But since the Dacia is not on the list, I'll go with the Versa.

 

[homeforsummer]

I can confirm the Sandero is vastly better than the Mirage/Spark.

 

[TheBook]

I've driven a Spark. No thank you.

I've driven a Versa. It was pretty terrible.

I've not driven a Mirage. Can't say much.

Eh, give me the Versa, only because it'll probably be worth more in a year when I trade it in for something that won't make me want to play Russian Roulette with a Glock 19.

 

[Joey D]

I've had a Versa as a rental car before and I was tempted to take it back to Hertz and demand my money back. It was awful in every way, even for a rental car. So that's out.

The Mitsubishi I've never heard of or driven since people in the US are allergic to Mitsu's.

The Spark, considering what it is, isn't awful. I wouldn't spend actual money on one, but if I had to drive one around as a rental or something I wouldn't completely hate my life. Also a guy I know is trying to cram a Cobalt SS motor into one and not succeeding very well, if he manages to get it to work, it might be the coolest small car I'll have ever seen.

 

[Sage Ages]

I'd rather have this.

 

[TheBook]

Also a guy I know is trying to cram a Cobalt SS motor into one and not succeeding very well, if he manages to get it to work, it might be the coolest small car I'll have ever seen.

Please tell me there is a build page floating around on the internet somewhere. I would seriously love to see that.

 

[YSSMAN]

I have to admit that it's tough between the three. BUT! I love weird, cheap cars, and these three take the cake here in the US.

The Spark on the outset has the greatest number of things going for it. I'd definitely say that it looks the best, and I do know that I quite like the interior of it. But, you really have to option the car up to get the best look inside and out, and the car quickly climbs from $13k up to the mid $15k range with what I'd want. Worse yet, the fuel economy just isn't up to snuff, which is part of the reason why they added the CVT this year. Let us hope that CVT is better than the last one GM did. In the Saturn Ion. *Shudder*

The Mirage on the other hand is a pitch-perfect example of what I like about cheap cars. It isn't trying to hide that it's one of the cheapest cars on the market, it wears it proudly, hoping to bring in younger buyers looking for a good deal. Problem is, everything I've read about the car is downright questionable - Poor paint, really poor quality plastics, buzzy engine, questionable suspension tune. Yes, it is a city car, but at the very least, the Versa and Spark are able to venture out on actual roads. Buuut... Three cylinders of fury still add up to the best fuel economy on the market, even when you're wringing it out, apparently.

The Versa, well, I have a really bad love/hate relationship with it. On the one hand, I really like the idea of being able to get a reasonably equipped car for $13k that comes with a warranty and a truly usable back seat. On the other, good god the plastics are bad. Really, really bad. So bad that I was surprised it was a production car, not something thrown together to show off. On top of all that, the sedan is butt-ugly.



It's a pretty tough call for me. Both Chevrolet and Mitsubishi do the right thing and offer a stick on the upper trim levels, while Nissan does not. Comparably equipped, the Chevrolet ends up winning on price - I guess that has to take it? So, Spark it is.

God forbid you're dumb enough to buy a Spark 2LT and realize it's only $1000 cheaper than a Sonic LT with the 1.4T.

 

[White & Nerdy]

...you know, I think I'll just keep what I have.

I guess the Versa, since it's sold in the U.S. and disgusts me less than the Spark.

 

[MadMike32]

Give me the Mirage. At least in the US it will be unique, because people here refuse to buy Mitsubishis. I think people must still associate the name with the A6M2 Zero.

 

[homeforsummer]

The Spark on the outset has the greatest number of things going for it. I'd definitely say that it looks the best, and I do know that I quite like the interior of it....the fuel economy just isn't up to snuff

The interior, to its credit, isn't such a bad design, and I was really impressed with the stereo. If it wasn't a car with zero image here in the UK I'd actually say it'd make a good first car for some people - spacious, interesting to look at, standard USB for plugging MP3 players into, good speakers, easy to drive. Economical in the real world too, despite what EPA figures might suggest.

But the engine is just so bad. I couldn't believe that both versions I've driven have been the 1.2. They also do a 1.0 over here but the 1.2 is just tragically slow even by small car standards. In some ways it's fun as you really can drive it flat out everywhere without being antisocial, but when you actually want a bit of performance, like when climbing a hill, it's so frustrating.

Three cylinders of fury still add up to the best fuel economy on the market, even when you're wringing it out, apparently.

The Mitsubishi's engine isn't really that bad. Vastly better than the Spark's - similar figures (0-60 in 12.7 for the Spark, 11.7 for the Mirage) but out on the road the Mirage just feels much faster. The Spark is bad enough that it really has me wondering whether someone has registered it incorrectly and I've actually driven the 1.0. The Mirage feels faster than something like a VW Up. The Spark feels slower despite having better on-paper figures. Mirage is a bit noisy though.

To its credit, the Mirage will do mid-40s mpg (US) fairly easily. I haven't been able to measure the Spark's economy. But that VW Up will do 50 mpg without much effort.

And to both of their credits, each is reasonably comfortable over longer drives. I've found a lot of current small cars have fairly soft seats, which is more like seats used to be before they gained umpteen measures of adjustment. In many respects it makes small cars more comfortable than many larger ones.

 

[MadMike32]

The fuel economy in these cars really doesn't impress me. My four-year-old Civic coupe gets around 41 mpg, and is a hell of a lot more fun to drive.

 

[homeforsummer]

The fuel economy in these cars really doesn't impress me. My four-year-old Civic coupe gets around 41 mpg, and is a hell of a lot more fun to drive.

It's the potential more than the numbers. I suspect unless you drove like your gran, low-40s is the best you can expect from the Civic. In these, low 40s is the minimum you can expect in regular bumming around.

Not saying your Civic isn't more fun of course Just that the numbers don't tell the whole story with these. And of course, they're cheaper cars to begin with.

I actually found it pretty easy to get good economy out there because the road conditions are so different to the UK. Unless you live right in the center of a city it's much easier to just cruise along out there using not much fuel. Here you're constantly slowing down and speeding up for stuff which is ruinous for fuel economy.

I'd be interested to try some of the efficient cars I've driven here in the UK out there - I managed an easy 56 mpg in a diesel Civic here earlier this year. Would be intrigued to see how much I'd get on typically flat midwestern freeways. Suspect it'd be 60+ all day long.

 

[Kent]

The Mitsubishi's engine isn't really that bad. Vastly better than the Spark's - similar figures (0-60 in 12.7 for the Spark, 11.7 for the Mirage) but out on the road the Mirage just feels much faster.

So you say that one second faster to 60 is "similar" figures when comparing cars? I'm going to say keep it simple and stick to one message. Don't use "isn't really that bad" when you are saying it is better than the competition, especially when you go on to say "but on the road the mirage ..."

You could simply say-
The Mitsu's engine is vastly better than the spark's- one second faster 0-60.

I don't mean to be a prick about it but I know it's your thing to write about cars and I can't ignore it when I know you can be a better (more concise, direct, etc,) writer (then again maybe you get paid by the word ).

 

[homeforsummer]

So you say that one second faster to 60 is "similar" figures when comparing cars? I'm going to say keep it simple and stick to one message. Don't use "isn't really that bad" when you are saying it is better than the competition, especially when you go on to say "but on the road the mirage ..."

You could simply say-
The Mitsu's engine is vastly better than the spark's- one second faster 0-60.

I don't mean to be a prick about it but I know it's your thing to write about cars and I can't ignore it when I know you can be a better writer.

No.

The figures are similar on paper - just one second separates the two. And yes, one second is pretty similar in seat-of-the-pants terms. If a car does 60 in 4 or 5 seconds, 9 or 10, or 20 and 21, those one-second margins aren't especially noticeable when you're driving (unless they go about it in different ways - a turbocharged engine and an NA one, as examples).

But on the road, the two cars feel hugely different. The Spark can barely get out of its own way, the Mirage can get up to speed quite happily. It could be gearing, it could be the torque band, whatever - the Mitsubishi makes the gap feel like much more than that one-on-paper second implies.

It's subjective feelings overriding objective data. So my original point still stands.

 

[Roger the Horse]

I'll just use my bike and the train, thank you very much...

 

[DK]

I'd go for the Mirage, there isn't the same stigma towards Mitsubishis here as there is in the US. If I want a cheap, new car, at least it has fuel mileage going for it.

 

[Wolfe]

It's easily the Mirage for me, by process of elimination. The Versa has no manual transmission which is a no-go, and I don't have a smartphone so I couldn't listen to music in the Spark. With a 5-speed I would enjoy abusing the Mirage, whether it was pink or not. Out here it would become two-tone with tan-colored bands up the sides anyway, as I took it rallying over dusty/muddy gravel roads.

 

[Kent]

No.

The figures are similar on paper - just one second separates the two. And yes, one second is pretty similar in seat-of-the-pants terms. If a car does 60 in 4 or 5 seconds, 9 or 10, or 20 and 21, those one-second margins aren't especially noticeable when you're driving (unless they go about it in different ways - a turbocharged engine and an NA one, as examples).

But on the road, the two cars feel hugely different. The Spark can barely get out of its own way, the Mirage can get up to speed quite happily. It could be gearing, it could be the torque band, whatever - the Mitsubishi makes the gap feel like much more than that one-on-paper second implies.

It's subjective feelings overriding objective data. So my original point still stands.

I disagree but I suppose we can leave it at that.

 

[homeforsummer]

I'm intrigued as to how you disagree.

My point is constructed of three parts: One, a one-second difference in 0-60. Two, that ordinarily such a difference is fairly small and unnoticeable out on the road. Three, that in this case, the Mitsubishi subjectively feels much stronger.

What part in particular do you disagree with? It isn't unknown for one car to feel faster than another even if it's slower on paper (through sound, or gearing, or response etc), so I'm at a loss as to how it's so unbelievable that an already-slightly-faster-on-paper car can feel significantly more so out on the road.

And if it's simply the way I've worded it then that's probably not my writing but your comprehension - unless you're able to take a straw poll of others who hadn't a clue what I meant in the post you quoted...

 

[-Fred-]

I'm tempted to be Debbie Downer here and say that "poor" people won't buy a new car anyways, so the comparison is moot, but I won't do that.

I've not driven the Spark, so I can't comment on it, I've sat in the Mirage and that was enough to convince me I did not need to drive it, and I've driven a previous generation Versa hatchback, which, while extremely spacious and practical, was quite slow and not exactly impressive, but did a great job at being a motoring appliance.

So, Versa it would be for me. Or a 3 year old Golf TDi...

 

[Kent]

I'm intrigued as to how you disagree.

My point is constructed of three parts: One, a one-second difference in 0-60. Two, that ordinarily such a difference is fairly small and unnoticeable out on the road. Three, that in this case, the Mitsubishi subjectively feels much stronger.

What part in particular do you disagree with? It isn't unknown for one car to feel faster than another even if it's slower on paper (through sound, or gearing, or response etc), so I'm at a loss as to how it's so unbelievable that an already-slightly-faster-on-paper car can feel significantly more so out on the road.

And if it's simply the way I've worded it then that's probably not my writing but your comprehension - unless you're able to take a straw poll of others who hadn't a clue what I meant in the post you quoted...

I'm surprised you have such a hard time with me disagreeing. To you, one full second of difference to 60mph isn't a big deal (regardless of it being 4 v. 5, 9 v. 10, or 20 v. 21).
To me, one full second is a big deal.
It's what separates the performance of many cars in ways that are genuinely important to both manufacturers and the owners/buyers.

I'm not sure what cars to use for examples but... Take something like a Toyota Camry doing 8 seconds to 60 v. a Mazda 6 doing it in 7s. Then maybe take a comparison of the roughly 5.9s 0-60 of a turbo 4 Focus ST compared to the turbo 4 CTS doing 4.6s (just over a second difference)...
Or maybe the difference of a WRX at 4.8-5.0 to 60 v. the ST at roughly 6s.

Those, to you apparently, aren't important differences but to me they represent margins of difference that vary from 10% (in the 9s v. 10s car) all the way to 20-25% in the 4s v. 5s car.

Let's just say this... Review a GTR and a another sub 4 second car, say it wasn't really a big difference that one did 0-60 in 3.8 while the GTR did it in 2.8, then see if Nissan is quick to let you do a test on their GTR again.
Something tells me they wouldn't be happy with you as a reviewer or a professional.

Bottom line:
You don't see One Second as a big difference and I do.

Btw, don't insult my reading comprehension simply because I point out how wordy you were when you could have been far more concise.

 

[MadMike32]

It's the potential more than the numbers. I suspect unless you drove like your gran, low-40s is the best you can expect from the Civic. In these, low 40s is the minimum you can expect in regular bumming around.

Not saying your Civic isn't more fun of course Just that the numbers don't tell the whole story with these. And of course, they're cheaper cars to begin with.

I actually found it pretty easy to get good economy out there because the road conditions are so different to the UK. Unless you live right in the center of a city it's much easier to just cruise along out there using not much fuel. Here you're constantly slowing down and speeding up for stuff which is ruinous for fuel economy.

I'd be interested to try some of the efficient cars I've driven here in the UK out there - I managed an easy 56 mpg in a diesel Civic here earlier this year. Would be intrigued to see how much I'd get on typically flat midwestern freeways. Suspect it'd be 60+ all day long.

I hardly drive it like that. I could probably squeeze quite a bit more out of it, if it weren't for the fact that I like to humiliate the local V6 Mustang owners around here.....

I would imagine that the backroads around here probably help things, though. I'm hardly ever in stop-and-go traffic, so there's that.

Whatever the case, I already save a ton of money on gas. The extra 10 or 15 MPG that I would gain with these little golf carts isn't worth everything I would lose. (It's worth noting that I payed $12,000 for my car, so I wouldn't even save on the car itself.)

 

[homeforsummer]

Edit: Forget it. I have far better things to spend my time on.