GT500 & GT300 Mixed Spot Race - No ABS & No Tuning

[Ridox2JZGTE]

I have been playing GT5 since the release day, and joined GTPlanet a few months ago as I am trying to find like minded drivers who do not use any aids. Apparently finding such like minded drivers is like finding a rare used car in good condition

What I have come up with is an idea for spot race just to gauge the interest for the sort of online race that prohibits aids and tuning as well as lower tire category than the usual.

A spot race with JGTC/SuperGT, half field will be any GT500 class, the other half is GT300. The main difference to other race series is there will be no aids allowed, including no ABS. All cars are stock, no tuning allowed, only BB changes allowed. No same car allowed.
I would also allow only Sports Medium or lower tires in the race to lower the speed of all cars and closer racing. Track of choice this time is Twin Ring Motegi Full Course with 30 laps.

Car list :

Only one car for each driver and no same car allowed. Only oil change allowed.

JGTC

GT300
S Autobacs ARTA Garaiya (JGTC) ‘03
S Nissan CALSONIC SKYLINE (JGTC) ‘00
S Nissan C-WEST RAZO SILVIA (JGTC) ‘01
S RE Amemiya AMEMIYA ASPARADRINK RX7 (JGTC) ‘04
S Subaru CUSCO SUBARU ADVAN IMPREZA (JGTC) ‘03
S Toyota SUPERAUTOBACS APEX MR-S (JGTC) ‘00
S Toyota WEDSSPORT CELICA (JGTC) ‘03

GT500
S Honda ARTA NSX (JGTC) ‘00
S Honda Castrol MUGEN NSX (JGTC) ‘00
S Honda LOCTITE MUGEN NSX (JGTC) ‘01
S Honda Mobil 1 NSX (JGTC) ‘01
S Honda RAYBRIG NSX (JGTC) ‘00
S Honda TAKATA DOME NSX (JGTC) ‘03
S Lamborghini NOMAD Diablo GT-1 (JGTC) ‘00
S Nissan CALSONIC SKYLINE GT-R Race Car ‘93
S Nissan LOCTITE ZEXEL GT-R (JGTC) ‘00
S Nissan MOTUL PITWORK Z (JGTC) ‘04
S Nissan PENNZOIL Nismo GT-R (JGTC) ‘99
S Nissan PENNZOIL ZEXEL GT-R (JGTC) ‘01
S Nissan XANAVI HIROTO GT-R (JGTC) ‘01
S Nissan XANAVI NISMO GT-R (JGTC) ‘03
S Toyota au CERUMO Supra (JGTC) ‘01
P Toyota Castrol TOM’S SUPRA (JGTC) ‘97
S Toyota Castrol TOM’S SUPRA (JGTC) ‘00
S Toyota Castrol TOM’S SUPRA (JGTC) ‘01
S Toyota DENSO SARD SUPRA GT (JGTC) ‘00
S Toyota WOODONE TOM’S SUPRA (JGTC) ‘03

Super GT

GT300
P RE Amemiya Amemiya AsparaDrink RX7 (SUPER GT) ‘06
P Subaru CUSCO DUNLOP SUBARU IMPREZA (SUPER GT) ‘08
P Autobacs ARTA Garaiya (SUPER GT) ‘08
P Lexus Weds Sport IS350 (SUPER GT) ‘08

GT500
P Honda ARTA NSX (SUPER GT) ‘06
P Honda EPSON NSX (SUPER GT) ‘08
P Honda RAYBRIG NSX (SUPER GT) ‘06
P Honda TAKATA DOME NSX (SUPER GT) ‘06
P Lexus BANDAI DIREZZA SC430 (SUPER GT) ‘06
P Lexus DENSO DUNLOP SARD SC430 (SUPER GT) ‘08
P Lexus ENEOS SC430 (SUPER GT) ‘08
P Lexus PETRONAS TOM’S SC430 (SUPER GT) ‘08
P Nissan Calsonic IMPUL GT-R (SUPER GT) ‘08
P Nissan MOTUL AUTECH GT-R (SUPER GT) ‘08
P Nissan WOODONE ADVAN Clarion GT-R (SUPER GT) ‘08
P Nissan XANAVI NISMO GT-R (SUPER GT) ‘08
P Nissan XANAVI NISMO Z (SUPER GT) ‘06
P Nissan YellowHat YMS TOMICA GT-R (SUPER GT) ‘08
P Toyota YellowHat YMS Supra (SUPER GT) ‘05


Here are the settings that I have in mind :


Public online lobby
Slots: 16 - Max slot GT500 - 8, Max slot GT300 - 8
Race Quality: High
Mic: Disabled
Host: Participant with the fastest connection preferred

Track Settings

Twin Ring Motegi Full Course or Grand Valley Speedway or Daytona Road Course
30 laps


Event Settings
Start Type - Grid Start with False Start Check
Grid Order - Fastest First
Boost - No
Penalty: None - pending review post race
Race Finish Delay: Maximum
Visible Damage: On
Mechanical Damage: Heavy
Slipstream Strength: Weak
Tire Wear/Fuel: On
Grip Reduction on Wet Track/Track Edge: Real

Regulation Settings

Tires: Sports Soft or lower
Vehicle Tuning: Prohibited
ABS: OFF
Traction Control: OFF
Active Steering: OFF
Skid Recovery Force: OFF
ASM: OFF
Driving Line: OFF

Starting Line Up :

8 GT300 cars in front and 8 GT500 cars at the back.
No Qualify.

What do you guys think ? Should I add a poll to this ? If anyone would like to host the race, I would be thrilled, my internet is not really fast enough to host 16 car races.
Any opinions/suggestions ?

Edit : It's been very quiet, does anyone in GTP interested in non aids racing, no tuning, challenging racing ? or at least track days with similar format ?

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Anyone ????

 

[Pluxtheduck]

Your regs are very very harsh and hard to match - not many of those cars will work STOCK with SM tyres... They aren't designed for them. Plus most GT cars use ABS for ease of use...

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Thanks for the response, I understand that this event may not be for everyone taste.

I have driven most GT500/GT300 cars with SH and SM tires, they can be driven fast, but they do require finesse with throttle, brake and steering. I even tested them with CM tire online, still driveable albeit the lap times were very slow. My goal with the event is to have a race event, where driver skills decides the outcome, not tuning or easier to handle racing tire.

I have been playing GT5 since release day, never use any aids including ABS. My purpose for this thread is to know the level of interest and how many GTP members who have the same preferences in gameplay. I have several friend from GTP who play the same way, I do hope they will be interested in this too.

For SuperGT/JGTC in real life, they do not allow any aids, no traction control, no ABS, which is why I used these cars to reflect their real life counterpart races. I invited everyone to at least give this event a try, no need to win or anything, just some casual racing with given rule, see how much different it will be than the usual races with assist, tuning and overly grippy racing tires.

 

[Pluxtheduck]

I've only ever used ABS1 - no more no less. I find it makes life easier. However I always tune my cars. In real life they do tune them. I think that tuning is important for the races as otherwise it will hamper some people a lot more. Also I think you should change to a non DLC track - that will help you a lot.

 

[Denilson]

Hi Ridox.

I've hosted/created/developed many MANY mixed class races with the GT500/JGTS cars. (WSGTC 1, 2 and 3, GATE GT300 and PURE | JGTS)
Here's some valuable information.

Many many GTP users love to drive these cars.
Many many GTP users love to drive these cars without any aids.

And since so many users love to drive them, it's well known that all the cars perform very different.
I.e the Nissan WOODONE GT-R and the Lexus ENOS SC430 are way to slow. Same goes for many other cars as well as many cars in the GT300 selection.

You have to have parity between the cars you want to use.
Many users also know how to tune their cars and really like that option.

Regarding the tyres.
Racing Hards are perfect for these cars.
It will give you a latteral grip at around 1.30, which is pretty much spot on.
If you use SH's, the latteral grip level will be maxed out as early as 0,85, and that's more like a sporty road car..

Also, stating at what day and time you're planning to host the races is never a bad idea.

This was just some inputs. Hope you find at least some of it useful. 👍

 

[TomBrady]

Your regs are very very harsh and hard to match - not many of those cars will work STOCK with SM tyres... They aren't designed for them. Plus most GT cars use ABS for ease of use...

Not true at all. If you've raced any PC sims, sports mediums are about the only tires that feel right. I've tried it with a few different cars, and sport mediums produce the most accurate lap times to the times you can get in professional sims.

Plus I've raced in real life a little bit and the hard compounds I was on felt closest to SM. Plus, PD even has said many times over, the tire grip in GT5 isn't exactly realistic, and that to fully simulate real driving, you need to use lower grip tires than what the cars come with. They've been saying that since GT2

 

[TomBrady]

I'M IN!!!!!!

I seriously hope we can get more people because this is going to be great fun. People need to stop knocking it before they try it. If they must, consider it "low grip" racing. Eitherway it will be great racing.

Also like that heavy damage is on. People don't realize how important heavy damage is. Even with clean racers, using heavy damage drastically changes everyones behavior for the better. It's just human nature that we're more likely to be more careful if the consequences are getting stuck in the pits instead of just getting a complaint after the race. I wish it was always on frankly. Plus, it is more realistic of course.

 

[bdubclub]

Depending on the time.... I'm in. I like the no abs option, I will keep an eye on this. 👍

 

[Denilson]

Plus, PD even has said many times over, the tire grip in GT5 isn't exactly realistic, and that to fully simulate real driving, you need to use lower grip tires than what the cars come with. They've been saying that since GT2

Since the tire model in GT5 is nothing but a grip multiplyer it's impossible to say that this car "feels right" with SM's or whatever.

I.e, in real life, the F430 and CSL pull the same amount of latteral G's, bit the F430 is on a sporty road tyre (Pirelli PZero), and the CSL is on a semi slick (Michelin Pilot Sport Cup).
Reason why the cars can pull about the same is that the Ferrari, on it's slippyer tire got more rubber in contact with the track (wider tires), but to simulate this in GT5, both cars should be run on the same tire.

Another example is that the Mini Cooper and Corvette ZR1 pull the same latteral G's on the same tire.
But we obviously know that if both cars was fitted with the same tire, the ZR1 should be able to pull more latteral G's concidering it's much much wider tires.

Look at latteral G's, and from there decide on the in-game compound. 👍

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Since the tire model in GT5 is nothing but a grip multiplyer it's impossible to say that this car "feels right" with SM's or whatever.

I.e, in real life, the F430 and CSL pull the same amount of latteral G's, bit the F430 is on a sporty road tyre (Pirelli PZero), and the CSL is on a semi slick (Michelin Pilot Sport Cup).
Reason why the cars can pull about the same is that the Ferrari, on it's slippyer tire got more rubber in contact with the track (wider tires), but to simulate this in GT5, both cars should be run on the same tire.

Another example is that the Mini Cooper and Corvette ZR1 pull the same latteral G's on the same tire.
But we obviously know that if both cars was fitted with the same tire, the ZR1 should be able to pull more latteral G's concidering it's much much wider tires.

Look at latteral G's, and from there decide on the in-game compound. 👍

No mean to debate, just my opinion on SM/SS tires on JGTC cars.
I have been testing ARTA NSX JGTC ( standard version ) for a few weeks trying to beat Tsuchiya's record. Anyway, with a bone stock ARTA NSX, no changes at all, except BB 7/3, tire wear on, offline practice, grip real, sports soft tire, I could managed 57 seconds flat on relatively warm tires on 2nd lap. This was done just like in real life, no aids, no ABS. Then I try RH tires, 54.xxx on 1st lap cold tires, same setup as SS tires.

RH is only 3 seconds slower than the real life lap record set by Tsuchiya.
Tsuchiya's average lap was 52s, his record was 51.875 sec, previous record was around 53.1xxx seconds. This was done a soft compound racing tires, track specific tuned transmission + suspension + LSD and downforce to get best possible time.

I am comparing mainly how the car handles in corners, how early I can apply full throttle on exit and the speed in general, I looked at the in board video and to me, RH tires in GT5 is even more grippier than real life Tsuchiya's time attack soft racing tires which may have been used for qualifying ( super soft? ) The closest to real life time attack is SS tires in GT5.

My main point is the reason I chose SM tires is get as close possible performance as real life hard compound tires, in terms of cornering speeds and rough lap times. I never really depend on lateral G readings, there are too many factors at hand, tire size, car weight, aerodynamics, surface condition, and it's not an easy task to compare 2 different car in real life with even similar cornering /lateral G.

 

[Denilson]

Honestly, what do you know about driving a SGT car IRL?

What I wrote is nothing but an explenation of how the tire model in GT5 works.
Take it or leave it.

Laptimes is far from the truth. Just because you hit a sertain lap time does'nt say at all if the tires alone are correct/incorrect.

The SGT record at Suzuka is 1:49.XXX (IIRC) in the ARTA NSX ´06 (The exact one that's in the game).
You could fit it with RS tires, and you would'nt even be close to that laptime.
Just saying.
Laptimes are in no way a sign that you'r using the right tires.

My main point is the reason I chose SM tires is get as close possible performance as real life hard compound tires, in terms of cornering speeds and rough lap times. I never really depend on lateral G readings, there are too many factors at hand, tire size, car weight, aerodynamics, surface condition, and it's not an easy task to compare 2 different car in real life with even similar cornering /lateral G.

But how do you explain the above example if so?
The ARTA NSX ´06 that did the real life super lap is the exact same car as the one in GT5. No differences in weight, tire with (It's not calculated in GT5, hense the gripmultiplyer system I told you about in my previous post) or whatever. It's the same car.
Try setting a 1:49.XXX around Suzuka in SS, RH's or even RM's.. Won't happen.. Not with RS's either I might add.
There's achance you'll get in the 51's, or down in the 50's if you're a super alien.. But 1:49's.. no..


And no problme with a debate.. It's fun. 👍

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Honestly, what do you know about driving a SGT car IRL?

What I wrote is nothing but an explenation of how the tire model in GT5 works.
Take it or leave it.

Laptimes is far from the truth. Just because you hit a sertain lap time does'nt say at all if the tires alone are correct/incorrect.

The SGT record at Suzuka is 1:49.XXX (IIRC) in the ARTA NSX ´06 (The exact one that's in the game).
You could fit it with RS tires, and you would'nt even be close to that laptime.
Just saying.
Laptimes are in no way a sign that you'r using the right tires.





But how do you explain the above example if so?
The ARTA NSX ´06 that did the real life super lap is the exact same car as the one in GT5. No differences in weight, tire with (It's not calculated in GT5, hense the gripmultiplyer system I told you about in my previous post) or whatever. It's the same car.
Try setting a 1:49.XXX around Suzuka in SS, RH's or even RM's.. Won't happen.. Not with RS's either I might add.
There's achance you'll get in the 51's, or down in the 50's if you're a super alien.. But 1:49's.. no..


And no problme with a debate.. It's fun. 👍

I do agree there is no way to compare real life and game, I just felt that in game Racing tires are too much, seems unreal at times, maybe not RH, but RM and RS are. I just did online race at Nurb 24H with no aids or ABS, tire wear, damage, SS tires, it was fun, and more challenging than with RH. Getting slower times does not really matter, I was using YMS Supra with 508hp, we had a close race, the other one used Xanavi Nismo Z.

My lap time reference was just for rough estimate of gap between real and game, to gauge how much difference of tires in game will perform against real life tires. I find that lower grip tires better for drivers challenge and more fun in general.

 

[Denilson]

I find that lower grip tires better for drivers challenge and more fun in general.

That's subjective, and you're ofc allowed to think so.
And I agree that it's ofc more of a challange to drive the SGT's on SS compared to RH's.
Less grip = More challange.
I'm not objecting against that at all. 👍

What I wanted to point out was that it's impossible for us to say "This or that tire is more like in real life", when none of us know what it feels to drive a SGT irl in the first place.

I used to own a BMW M3 ´05 for 2 years.. And driving it in GT5 (M3 '04, basically the same car), I have a hard time to say that it feel like irl.. Cause imo, It's impossible to compare.
I drowe a lot on different tracks with it and really pushed it.. Still can't feel it in the same way I did irl in the game.

And I also wanted to explain how the tire model works in GT5, namely nothing but a grip multiplyer that does'nt take tire width in to concideration.
That's why I suggest that you should look up what kind of latteral G's said car can pull irl, and chose tires form there if you want it as close to realistic as possible.

I've uploaded a spreadsheet with the recommended tires to Google Docs:

GT5 Stock Tire Recommendations


*************

In an effort to figure out what is going on with GT5's tire models and which tires should go on which cars, I decided to do some skidpad testing. I used the 2010 Camaro SS and the Corvette ZR1, since I'm familiar with those cars and actual data is readily available.

We don't have an actual 200' skidpad to calculate lateral g force with in GT5, but what we do have is a g "meter" and a datalog. For the values I came up with, I created a delineated scale and taped it under the HUD g-force bar graph, and also used a scale against the datalog graph during replays as verification. The measurements were taken on the widest part of the TGTT, by turning a continuous steady-speed circle after warming the tires. Lateral g force was recorded up to the point where the car started to skid and could no longer hold the established circle. I also ran laps "on the edge" to verify the numbers, and repeated all the tests twice. (Note that I rounded the numbers to the nearest .05, due to my screen resolution).

My setup is a racing simulator chassis with a G25 wheel, and a Sony 50" HDTV. I ran each test with no aids and a manual tranny in "bumper" cam. (I hate that inaccurate view name ).

First up was the Camaro, with comfort hard (CH) tires. I performed the test on each tire type, trying to be as consistent as possible. I only tested comfort and sport tires; once I got to the racing compounds the grip started getting ridiculous, and was beyond what I wanted to test with this setup.

Here are the numbers (Notice that each softer tire compound increases lateral acceleration by approximately .05g):

CH - .85
CM - .90
CS - .95
SH - 1.00
SM - 1.10
SS - 1.15

The real-life Camaro SS scores a 0.87 on R&T's skidpad test. So it would appear that CM tires would be closest to stock for the Camaro, based on lateral acceleration. (I'm going to the next higher number, just because ).

Now for the 'vette numbers:

CH - .85
CM - .90
CS - .95
SH - 1.05
SM - 1.10
SS - 1.15

Virtually identical as far as the lateral acceleration numbers for each tire type. The real-life ZR1 scores a 1.10 on R&T's skidpad, so it would appear that SM tires would be the best stock equivalents for it.

Note: Just for reference, RH lateral g values were around 1.25, and RS were around 1.35 with the ZR1.

Here's where it starts getting weird. The real-life Camaro comes equipped with Pirelli P Zero tires, and the ZR1 comes with Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 ZP tires. According to TireRack.com data sheets, both of these tires have identical speed rating (186+mph), tread wear (220), and traction rating (AA).

The only thing I can come up with to explain the unexpected test numbers is that the size of the contact patch is not figured into GT5's tire equations. In other words, to duplicate accurate lateral acceleration numbers for the ZR1, you have to use a softer tire compound to make up for the larger contact patch on the real-life car. (The 'vette has considerably more rubber on the road than the Camaro, especially in the rear).

So far it looks like each car would have to be tested independently to come up with the best GT5 tire type to simulate real life. I plan on doing some more as time permits, but it will be a slow process. First up will probably be one of the Ferrari's that come with the Pirelli P Zero's (599 I think?), so that we have a side-by-side comparison.

Thoughts?

*************

For those that are late to the party and want a quick summary:

My testing so far has revealed that the 9 tire types (CH, CM, CS, SH, SM, SS, RH, RM, RS) in GT5 form what appears to be a simple grip multiplier, with each tire type adding approximately .06g of lateral grip. The only thing that changes is where the scale starts for various cars. (i.e. for the ZR1, CH = .85g and for the '71 Cuda, CH = .80g). It also appears that the width of the tire is not being considered in the grip equations; for any specific tire type, the '02 Mini Cooper has the same amount of lateral grip as the '09 Corvette ZR1! And as softer tires are equipped, the amount of grip increases equally for both cars.

The implications of this are that in order to get close to IRL grip performance (based on lateral acceleration anyway), you have to equip different cars with different tires. As an example, just throwing sport mediums on all performance sports cars means nothing. One car may need CM tires to reproduce IRL performance numbers, while a very similar car may require SH tires.

Here are my "recommendations" for the cars I've tested so far (take it for what it's worth and do with it what will you will ).

Edit: See link at top

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

That's subjective, and you're ofc allowed to think so.
And I agree that it's ofc more of a challange to drive the SGT's on SS compared to RH's.
Less grip = More challange.
I'm not objecting against that at all. 👍

What I wanted to point out was that it's impossible for us to say "This or that tire is more like in real life", when none of us know what it feels to drive a SGT irl in the first place.

I used to own a BMW M3 ´05 for 2 years.. And driving it in GT5 (M3 '04, basically the same car), I have a hard time to say that it feel like irl.. Cause imo, It's impossible to compare.
I drowe a lot on different tracks with it and really pushed it.. Still can't feel it in the same way I did irl in the game.

And I also wanted to explain how the tire model works in GT5, namely nothing but a grip multiplyer.

So it all boils down to the players preference to use which tires in a given car. Of course the player would consider the purpose choosing certain tires, easier, faster, more durable, more wear, to regulate closer racing,etc. I do hope my choice of SS or SM tires won't cause more issues, I already feel that most GTP members here prefers RH, which I am not fond of, unless its for Group C cars

 

[Denilson]

My goal with the event is to have a race event, where driver skills decides the outcome, not tuning or easier to handle racing tire.

I can promise you that in WSGTC 1, 2, and 3, and PURE | JGTS, it takes nothing but skill to come out on top.
All tires have it's limits.. It would require the same amount of skill to win a CH tire race as RS tire race in these cars.
The gap will be bigger from 1st to last most likely with the CH tire, but the most skilled driver will still win.
All tires have it's limits, even RS's, even though I'd never race with them personally.

I am comparing mainly how the car handles in corners, how early I can apply full throttle on exit and the speed in general, I looked at the in board video and to me, RH tires in GT5 is even more grippier than real life Tsuchiya's time attack soft racing tires which may have been used for qualifying ( super soft? ) The closest to real life time attack is SS tires in GT5.

And this post.. You compare to what?
The closest compund in GT5 compared to real life time attack tires are SS's..? Ok..


Dsicussions, discussions.. 👍

I'd love to take part in this spot race with your regs though. That's why I've been posting here in the first place.
I'd like to use the Nissan XANAVI NISMO Z ´06 (P)

Depends on time and day ofc. 👍


Oh, and as I said in a previous post regarding the car specs..
Since you're only going to allow 8 cars from each calss, would'nt it be better to pich 8 premium GT500's and 4 GT300's (allow 2 of each), cause they are totally different.. And with such different cars, it sertainly does'nt have to do with skill if you come out on top as long as you've chosen the right car.

May I suggest these specs?

8 GT500's
Nissan XANAVI NISMO GT-R, Nissan CALSONIC IMPUL GT-R, Nissan YELLOWHAT YMS TOMICA GT-R, Nissan AUTECH MOTUL GT-R
Bhp: 518
Weight: 1130 kg (Recommended Ballast Position: 0)
PP: 607 (With Full Aero)
PL: 100%
Allowed mods: Ridgity Improvement

Lexus DENSO DUNLOP SARD SC430, Lexus PETRONAS TOM'S SC430
Bhp: 513
Weight: 1130 kg (Recommended Ballast Position: 0)
PP: 609 (With Full Aero)
PL: 95,2%
Allowed Mods: Turbo Stage 2, Ridgity Improvement

Nissan XANAVI NISMO Z
Bhp: 505
Weight: 1130 kg (Recommended Ballast Position: 5)
PP: 615 (With Full Aero)
PL: 94,6%
Allowed Mods: Ridgity Improvement

Toyota CASTROL TOM'S SUPRA
Bhp: 515
Weight: 1150 kg
PP: 611 (Max Allowed DF: 40/65)
PL: 99,7%
Allowed Mods: Ridgity Improvement

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

And this post.. You compare to what?
The closest compund in GT5 compared to real life time attack tires are SS's..? Ok..


Dsicussions, discussions.. 👍

I'd love to take part in this spot race with your regs though. That's why I've been posting here in the first place.
I'd like to use the Nissan XANAVI NISMO Z ´06 (P)

Depends on time and day ofc. 👍


Oh, and as I said in a previous post regarding the car specs..
Since you're only going to allow 8 cars from each calss, would'nt it be better to pich 8 premium GT500's and 4 GT300's (allow 2 of each), cause they are totally different.. And with such different cars, it sertainly does'nt have to do with skill if you come out on top as long as you've chosen the right car.

May I suggest these specs?

8 GT500's
Nissan XANAVI NISMO GT-R, Nissan CALSONIC IMPUL GT-R, Nissan YELLOWHAT YMS TOMICA GT-R, Nissan AUTECH MOTUL GT-R
Bhp: 518
Weight: 1130 kg (Recommended Ballast Position: 0)
PP: 607 (With Full Aero)
PL: 100%
Allowed mods: Ridgity Improvement

Lexus DENSO DUNLOP SARD SC430, Lexus PETRONAS TOM'S SC430
Bhp: 513
Weight: 1130 kg (Recommended Ballast Position: 0)
PP: 609 (With Full Aero)
PL: 95,2%
Allowed Mods: Turbo Stage 2, Ridgity Improvement

Nissan XANAVI NISMO Z
Bhp: 505
Weight: 1130 kg (Recommended Ballast Position: 5)
PP: 615 (With Full Aero)
PL: 94,6%
Allowed Mods: Ridgity Improvement

Toyota CASTROL TOM'S SUPRA
Bhp: 515
Weight: 1150 kg
PP: 611 (Max Allowed DF: 40/65)
PL: 99,7%
Allowed Mods: Ridgity Improvement

I was comparing to the inboard video, of how early Tsuchiya apply the throttle on exit, braking distance, and the speed reached at final straight, if you watch the gear changes carefully, you can get idea the speed his travelling at. I tried with RH, then RM, then SS. Both Racing tires felt too stable on exits, braking was also very different. I was just trying to mimic the way it was driven by Tsuchiya. Not really definitive comparison of SS tire is the same with the tire used for the time attack. I was hoping there is another tire type with grip between RH and SS, that would be best for me, but alas none existed.

I am open to suggestions, those car list looks very nice, I have no experience organizing races like this, so I'll take your list Thanks, and please could you give me another list for the GT300 class. I'll update the OP with the new car list.

I am sorry about that easier to handle racing tire statement, it sounds like a douche, I was referring to most players who never use lower grip tire, you know those who stuck with RS or RM all the time.

From my experience, comfort tires really took a lot more skill to handle, more so if it's powerful car. I had several practice sessions online using Jag XJR9 with CM tires, really takes a lot of strain just to do a clean lap with no tire spin or lock ups.

Oh, I'd like to use my YMS YellowHat Supra could you give me an update with recommended PL and any restriction for the car.

Edit : Originally I was aiming for a fun casual race , which I encouraged people to not focusing only on winning but more on having close fun race to help each other gain more experience. So I guess whoever got used to serious racing series may find this not very interesting. I would call it free run/track days at race pace and using race reg, sort of those exhibition JGTC races held in Japan in the late 90's.

 

[Denilson]

Sure thing!

Here it comes:
Toyota YELLOWHAT SUPRA
Bhp: 519
Weight: 1090 kg (Recommended Ballast Position: 50)
PP: 604 (With Full Aero)
PL: 97,2%
Allowed Mods: Engine Stage 3, Ridgity Improvement

I'll post the GT300 selection soon.


Oh, and I know exactly what you mean with the kind of drivers that drive 500pp road cars on Racing Softs..


And about the cars:
Reason why I suggest these cars are that they are all premium, which makes them easy to buy. They look great on pics, and the racing will look authentic. 👍

Too many cars are way too different to be raced as stock as they come. Doing that would defenetly take out the skill that's requred to win.
GT300 selection is not as easy to level, but the Specs used in GATE GT300 are really good. I'll post a sheet here as soon as I find it.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

I know what you mean with cars having different performance in stock tune, my stock YMS Supra got eaten alive by most other GT500 cars, it's just lack power and handles worse than any NSX.

 

[Denilson]

Yeah, that's why the YELLOWHAT is allowed the Engine Stage 3 in these specs..

There's one problem though..
These specs will force you to not run tuning prohibited.. Cause adding ballast to cars is not allowed.
I can try to get a set of cars that will be allowed to track without any tuning..

It would defenetly be the GT-R.. The AUTECH MOTUL GT-R is a tad slower at stock, but it's ok..
So that's 4..
Nissan XANAVI NISMO Z '06 (P) is another car that should work.
Toyota CASTROL TOM'S SUPRA as well..
6 GT500's..
Oh, and the 2 STEALTH GT500's.. NSX and GT-R. so that's 8.. But finding even 4 GT300's will be tough..

Here's the GT300 list. We don't need to use all of them, but these are the cars that are equal.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Yeah, that's why the YELLOWHAT is allowed the Engine Stage 3 in these specs..

There's one problem though..
These specs will force you to not run tuning prohibited.. Cause adding ballast to cars is not allowed.
I can try to get a set of cars that will be allowed to track without any tuning..

It would defenetly be the GT-R.. The AUTECH MOTUL GT-R is a tad slower at stock, but it's ok..
So that's 4..
Nissan XANAVI NISMO Z '06 (P) is another car that should work.
Toyota CASTROL TOM'S SUPRA as well..
6 GT500's..
Oh, and the 2 STEALTH GT500's.. NSX and GT-R. so that's 8.. But finding even 4 GT300's will be tough..

Here's the GT300 list. We don't need to use all of them, but these are the cars that are equal.

Thanks Denilson for doing all these, if you don't mind, could you give me a summary list of all the GT500 and GT300 cars that can be used in the race without tuning, I'll include my YMS Supra as well. I will then update the OP, once again, thanks.

Oh, of the tracks that I listed in the OP, which would be best for the race and does 30 laps too long ?

 

[Denilson]

Twin-Ring Motegi is defenetly the best track out of those imo.
But everybody don't have it..

I'll get back to you later on with 1 list that includes all the GT500/300 cars that can be allowed to track at equal specs without any prohibited tuning.
And you want to include the YMS SUPRA without the engine Stage 3, ok. 👍

 

[TomBrady]

Since the tire model in GT5 is nothing but a grip multiplyer it's impossible to say that this car "feels right" with SM's or whatever.

I.e, in real life, the F430 and CSL pull the same amount of latteral G's, bit the F430 is on a sporty road tyre (Pirelli PZero), and the CSL is on a semi slick (Michelin Pilot Sport Cup).
Reason why the cars can pull about the same is that the Ferrari, on it's slippyer tire got more rubber in contact with the track (wider tires), but to simulate this in GT5, both cars should be run on the same tire.

Another example is that the Mini Cooper and Corvette ZR1 pull the same latteral G's on the same tire.
But we obviously know that if both cars was fitted with the same tire, the ZR1 should be able to pull more latteral G's concidering it's much much wider tires.

Look at latteral G's, and from there decide on the in-game compound. 👍

Well you're right but the reason the 430 sticks so well is it also has a lot of downforce in comparison.

I agree that lateral G's is the best way to figure out the proper tires for ROAD CARS, but of course racing cars are very different because of the different aero configs racing teams will use and just the problems with the downforce/aero simulation GT5 does.

So maybe sports mediums isn't "the best tire" for these cars, I just wanted to comment that it just feels more like iracing and other PC sims when you use sports medium or soft on most racing cars.

Eitherway, I don't think using SM's should be a problem for people as it's actually a ton of fun. I hope that people will give it a chance because personally I love using SM's on GT500s and GT300s especially

 

[TomBrady]

Yeah, that's why the YELLOWHAT is allowed the Engine Stage 3 in these specs..

There's one problem though..
These specs will force you to not run tuning prohibited.. Cause adding ballast to cars is not allowed.
I can try to get a set of cars that will be allowed to track without any tuning..

It would defenetly be the GT-R.. The AUTECH MOTUL GT-R is a tad slower at stock, but it's ok..
So that's 4..
Nissan XANAVI NISMO Z '06 (P) is another car that should work.
Toyota CASTROL TOM'S SUPRA as well..
6 GT500's..
Oh, and the 2 STEALTH GT500's.. NSX and GT-R. so that's 8.. But finding even 4 GT300's will be tough..

Here's the GT300 list. We don't need to use all of them, but these are the cars that are equal.

If you're looking for a parity formula for the GT500s, I strongly suggest looking up the one used for the PURE series. i did a race at motegi with them, and from my own testing, I thought the formula was very good. No cars were at a disadvantage in the race or so it seemed

 

[Denilson]

If you're looking for a parity formula for the GT500s, I strongly suggest looking up the one used for the PURE series. i did a race at motegi with them, and from my own testing, I thought the formula was very good. No cars were at a disadvantage in the race or so it seemed

Tom, I made those specs! 👍
Exactly the ones I posted on the previous page.
And the GT300 specs posted a few posts up (also in your quote) are also PURE specs. But since I was'nt involved in the PURE | GATE GT300 Series, other members put those together.
Very good specs imo. 👍

And yeah, I totally agree on your input regarding the tires/lateral G discussion. 👍
What I don't agree on (IMO) is "this or that tire feels like irl", cause non of us knows.. It's even hard to tell if you've actually driven one in real life.. Cause real life racing and on-line racing just is'nt the same in a lot of areas.
Visability
G-Forces
Sounds
And so it goes on and on...