GT500 vs DTM/Touring Cars

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chaosdd

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chaosdd
Hi Guys,

I was wondering which type of cars would have the edge in terms of speed/laptimes generally. Both classes are magnificent and contain cool cars.
On paper, they are approximately evenly matched (GT500s are app. 100 kg heavier, but with some power advantage, downforce about the same). I'm talking about stock cars, of course, no aftermarket parts.

I have more experience with the GT cars and I love them, but the Touring Cars are great as well. As far as I can tell, out on the track, they also perform quite similarly, but what's your opinion? Has anybody made some "scientific" tests, maybe compare laptimes or share subjective opnions?

P.S. Pity the Tourning Cars are all standard.
 
Well... I guess I'll take the Lexus Racing Concept out for a spin around the 'Ring to see how it compares to my beloved Castrol Tom's Supra, or any of the other Super GT/JGTC cars that have made it onto my leaderboard, once I get home tonight.

If I'm not too drunk, that is.
 
I've been collecting DTM cars for some time now ( i.e. before this week's seasonal event ), and I also have some GT500 ( from '93 and 03' GT-R/skyline to recent Supras and NSXs, but not the last GT-R )

I race them stock on RH tyres in practice or dedicated A-Spec Events, and usually modifying as little as possible the default sttings.

What I noticed is that GT500s are a little more tight and perform better on circuit-type tracks ( say tokio, nurb GP, etc ), but get a little too twitchy on road type unevenly paved tracks ( trial mountain or nurb nordshleife ) ...
ever tried not to spin a GT500 NSX while time attacking a lap on the ring ? Usually I get 1 nice lap each 2 or 3 spin-polluted laps, which is not really consistent racing imo.

On the other hand, DTM cars like Alfa 155, Audis, GTR M3 etc are way more forgiving and allow for more consistent lap times on any track, but may be slightly uncer-performing on ciruits ( it seems to me most of them lack a little HP and some kind of fierceness, if kept stock ).

Notable exceptions would be the Lexus Racing concept ( most powerful DTM but a little twitchy anyway, reminds me of GT500 cars ) and the audi R8 LM ( it's a Le Mans car, it's definitly too powerful and I don't enjoy its handling anyway )

Anyone races these cars roughly stock and feels the same ?
and does anyone have a clue on why did they include the R8 in the DTM series ?
 
gz, 10X for sharing. I somewhat agree with your findings, although I am yet to get more experience from DTM cars.

The GT500 NSX is really quite twitchy and challanging to stay consistent on Nordschleife, mostly because of the MR layout. I love it, but it's too unforgiving, esp. on this track.

The GTRs 08 and the Xanavi Nismo 350 are easier to drive on the Ring and generally, but not so active and somewhat understeery.

I did the newest seasonal event with an A4, stock on the default racing hards (1st and only try). The car was excellent and very easy to drive, but somehow slowish compared to a GT500. However, with slight tuning to get to ~500 HP, maybe it will be at least as fast.

Just bought an Astra touring car. Will give it a try as well. I don't know whether there's big difference between the performacne of the different DTMs. GT500 seem quite evenly matched.
 
Possibly off topic but ohh well

I really enjoy the DTM's as they do have a nice bit of power but are still forgiving when it comes to controlling them unlike some other overpowered beasts....To me they are a joy to drive and i am definitely going to get back into racing them again now there is a few more to collect from the OCD
 
I found the DTM cars to handle really well, but the GT500s have a bit more straight line speed. I always imagined the GT500 cars to be a little quicker overall but wouldnt mind testing in one some track to see if that is indeed the case.
 
goukipau
DTM is faster > Super GT/JGTC (by a little probably)
a lot info on comparison can be found on google.
Click to expand...

Did some googling and actually couldn't find any proof of that. Quite a feq sources clame that Super GT is the fastest GT championship, could't find s.o. claiming the other.
Both championships were developing over the years, so it's hardly possible to compare generally. This is IRL, maybe valid for GT5 also.

I came across a great fresh news: FIA will gradually merge the two reglaments. The target is for 2015 to be fully compatible. How cool if we can get all these teams and manufacturers racing together?!
 
chaosdd
Did some googling and actually couldn't find any proof of that. Quite a feq sources clame that Super GT is the fastest GT championship, could't find s.o. claiming the other.
Both championships were developing over the years, so it's hardly possible to compare generally. This is IRL, maybe valid for GT5 also.

I came across a great fresh news: FIA will gradually merge the two reglaments. The target is for 2015 to be fully compatible. How cool if we can get all these teams and manufacturers racing together?!
Click to expand...

This is true, but for some reason I thought it was earlier than 2015? I don't really remember.

I'm sure the early races will be exhibitions, with a unified championship not showing up will a few years later. The prospect is really exciting though.
 
Am I the only one who finds the Super GT NSX's incredibly easy to handle because of the MR layout?

Maybe I'm just used to twitchy due to being an open wheel fan...
 
Tommy_861
This is true, but for some reason I thought it was earlier than 2015? I don't really remember.

I'm sure the early races will be exhibitions, with a unified championship not showing up will a few years later. The prospect is really exciting though.
Click to expand...

Yes, there was something mentioned for 2013 as some kind of milestone, cannot remember.

About the NSX: yeas it's easy to drive and handles really well. I think our point was about forgiveness. Mistakes are costly and consistency is more difficult. For me it's a little bit different and not contradictory.
 
chaosdd
Did some googling and actually couldn't find any proof of that. Quite a feq sources clame that Super GT is the fastest GT championship, could't find s.o. claiming the other.
Both championships were developing over the years, so it's hardly possible to compare generally. This is IRL, maybe valid for GT5 also.

I came across a great fresh news: FIA will gradually merge the two reglaments. The target is for 2015 to be fully compatible. How cool if we can get all these teams and manufacturers racing together?!
Click to expand...

Super GT cars are based on tube frames and often have very little to do with manufactured components. They are much more like DTM "Super" Touring cars from the mid 90s (Super Touring = Super Grand Touring! GASP!) and also GT1 cars (FIA GT1 spec) Super GT, and World Super GT are more of a evolution of the Super Touring class. All super GT 500 class cars run V8's with a displacement of 3.4l


Most DTM cars are also tube frame or rarely factory built and modified to regulations. AFAIK DTM does not allow the use of factory built chassis since its 2000 season, but I could be wrong. DTM engines are regulated in power to 470hp V8 and displacement of 4.0l and drivetrain to FR for its return in 2000 (As opposed to 500hp, and all draintrains which are allowable by Super GT rules)



In short, older Super Touring cars with a bit of tuning will be competitive, so will GT1 cars, however, newer DTM cars vs GT500 would be more of a tossup. The cars are not dis-similar, but the GT500 cars would have an advantage in power to weight ratio and the NSX's would have an MR layout.
 
I'm trying to collect all the Super GT, JGTC, and DTM cars in the game. So far I have about 10 of them. I play a lot of split screen and we race these a ton. They are all pretty well matched. Makes for some great racing!
 
Theirs talk about DTM and Super GT joining together soon. They are trying to figure out a new set of rules to make them more evenly matched because in real life Super GT is 7 seconds faster then DTM.
 
deftonesmx17
Am I the only one who finds the Super GT NSX's incredibly easy to handle because of the MR layout?

Maybe I'm just used to twitchy due to being an open wheel fan...
Click to expand...

Are you using skid recovery ? I dont think the nsx's are so easy to handle, gtr grip far more and let you do far more mistake.

Oh and SuperGT cars seems faster, I just raced against a calibra and won quite easy with a stock Calsonic. No top speed and nearly same corner speed.
 

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