GT7 Family Car Race Series: SCHOOL RUN

[the Interceptor]

In my opinion, family cars in Gran Turismo 7 lack a purpose in the game. Polyphony Digital keeps adding new models, but what's the point if there's hardly anything to do with them? They are family cars, not racing cars ... or are they?

I present my custom offline race series:

766×244
10,9 kB

Tracks (v0.23)
Changelog: I removed Broad Bean Raceway. It is less exciting than I hoped within this race series. All other tracks listed below are confirmed ok thus far.

Race #	Track	# of Laps	Boost	Fuel	Tires
1	Autodrome Lago Maggiore West-End	?	?	?	?
2	Autopolis short	?	?	?	?
3	Barcelona-Catalunya short	?	?	?	?
4	Brands Hatch Indy	?	?	?	?
5	Eiger Nordwand	?	?	?	?
6	Goodwood Motor Circuit	?	?	?	?
7	Grand Valley south	?	?	?	?
8	Nürburgring sprint	?	?	?	?
9	Sardegna Layout C	?	?	?	?
10	Suzuka east	?	?	?	?
11	Tokyo Express south	?	?	?	?
12	Tsukuba	?	?	?	?
13	Watkins Glen short	?	?	?	?

Cars (v0.27)
Changelog: Added drive train and engine type to the table. No more changes to cars or sponsors.

Counter	Model	Drive	Type	Grid #	Main Sponsor
1	Afeela Prototype '24	AWD	EV	24	246 Press ✓
2	Afeela 1 '26	AWD	EV	26	Maxwell Battery ✓
3	FIAT 500 1.2 8V Lounge SS '08	FF	Petrol	8	Nicola Pizza Delivery ✓
4	Honda CR-V e:HEV EX・Black Edition '21	AWD	Hybrid	95	Life&Miles (Endless-clone) ✓
5	Honda Fit Hybrid '14	FF	Hybrid	14	burn Sports (Spoon-clone) ✓
6	Honda N-ONE RS '22	FF	Petrol	22	Ken Chan Deli ✓
7	Mazda CX-30 X Smart Edition '21	FF	Petrol	51	burn (Gulf-clone) ✓
8	Mazda Atenza Sedan XD L Package '15	AWD	Diesel	15	Shell V-Power Diesel ✓
9	Mazda Demio XD Touring '15	FF	Diesel	96	APEX ✓
10	Nissan Qashqai Tekna 190 2wd e-Power '22	FF	Hybrid	6	Walter See ✓
11	Peugeot SUV 2008 Allure '21	FF	Petrol	21	Dexter Cleaning ✓
12	Renault Avantime '02	FF	Petrol	98	BBC Top Gear ✓
13	Renault Captur S Edition TCe 140 '21	FF	Petrol	20	Saint-Honore ✓
14	Renault Kangoo 1.4 '01	FF	Petrol	1	Bullet Express ✓
15	Toyota Alphard Executive Lounge '18	AWD	Petrol	2	Adorf Hotels & Resorts ✓
16	Toyota Aqua S '11	FF	Hybrid	11	Pharmacy 24 ✓
17	Toyota C-HR S '18	FF	Hybrid	18	Qizilbash Fitness ✓
18	Toyota Prius G '09	FF	Hybrid	97	Visaton ✓

Baseline tuning:

• RH tires
• Adjustable sports suspension
  • set spring rate front / back to the max
  • Raise ride height by approx. 20 mm
• sports brake discs and pads
• Stage 1 weight reduction
• Brake balance controller
• New wider rims and wider track
• Full aero mods
  • Setting 100 front / 200 back
  • Some cars only allow 150 in the back, then use 100 front / 150 back
• Fully custom ECU
• Race manifold
• Race muffler
• Race air filter

Work in Progress

• Refine the tuning/setup for each car
• Create "this car is driven by the AI" setups vs. "I will drive this car myself" setups (a bit slower) for each car Canceled: you have to make your own car so slow that you kill all the fun
• Run test races to determine lap count, fuel/tire multiplier etc.

Suggestions are welcome!!!

 

[05XR8]

I’ve tried only the SUVs with minor tune and obviously just regular AI. A bit spread out at Tsukuba in an initial test. Did more tuning for this grid to match the lowest tuning for the Urus and Ioniq 5. No swaps and kept each car at their standard aspiration.

Results from starting highest to lowest PP. Reversed the grid next race.

Edit: Second race with the reverse grid.


Will be interesting to see if the Captur can be tuned to these levels.

 

[the Interceptor]

This is amazing, thank you!!!

I also did a first shakedown yesterday:

Please don't mind the PP being all over the place, this lineup is not balanced yet. I was trying to find the weakest links first, the slowest cars. As expected it's the SUV/crossover hybrids that can hardly be tuned, namely:

• Honda CR-V e:HEV EX・Black Edition '21
• Nissan Qashqai Tekna 190 2wd e-Power '22
• Toyota Aqua S '11
• Toyota C-HR S '18

If you pull all the stops you can get them up to around 540 PP, so I think that may be the benchmark to aim for.

You have some cars in your lineup that I don't, but after yesterday I tend to add further cars to mine. So it is possible to gather 20 "family" cars (some for rich families) and make a balanced grid. I will edit post #1 in this thread as I go along with this project.

The track I used to benchmark them was Lago Maggiore West-End (clockwise), shown in blue here:333×216
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I had never driven this layout before, and for these slower cars I really like it. It has that fun rollercoaster bend, the following fast right-left, then the double-right and double-left left downhill. On the full track you'd end up on the start-finish straight now, but in this layout there's a sharp turn to the right that leads you back onto the downhill straight into the rollercoaster. The aforementioned slowest cars can manage a 1m05s lap on this track layout.

 

[05XR8]

Good stuff. I agree with the shorter layouts at Lago. Nice elevation changes for excitement. Good replay cameras as well.

Yeah, it's why I bumped up the PP. I did want to include the faster SUVs. I have the Pick ups on standby with the vans. Wish there was a Volvo SUV.

 

[the Interceptor]

Oh, another thing: The sprint races I plan shall be without fuel consumption, but I noticed yesterday that the Honda CR-V hybrid can run out of battery within a few laps. It then falls back on petrol power and becomes slow. Very slow. I benchmarked it 0-60 on Route X:

• 0-60 mph with battery ~ 9 seconds
• 0-60 mph without battery ~ 18 seconds

The battery is recharged during braking, but you lose more charge than you gain when hotlapping, so sooner or later you run out of juice. As this is already one of the slowest cars on the grid, this may become a factor in setting the lap count for races.

 

[05XR8]

Tidied up the grid with just the CUVs. Three spots for the Captur.

Used the C-HR S as the base PP to tune all cars. Its top speed is 259kmh with the standard 3.218 final drive. Set up cars with adjustable transmissions to the same final drive. Definitely have to keep to short tracks because of the CR-V(195kmh/3.888) and Qashqai(176kmh/8.821).

 

[the Interceptor]

Yeah, I am considering throwing some cars out as well. I did a lot of test runs yesterday. Tuned properly, the BMW i3 sits perfectly fine in the lineup, but on any track with one long-ish straight it immediately holds up everybody and then falls behind due to its top speed of 150kph/93mph. The next weakest link is, as you wrote, the Qashqai. I don't want to limit the track selection just because of the BMW (which does fit into the School Run lineup, but which I hadn't in mind when I started), so I'm taking it out.

To be blunt for a second: the School Run is "family car racing" for me as much as it is a "graveyard for slow cars which serve no other purpose in the game". The BMW i3 is one of those cars, but I'm going to take it out of the lineup regardless. The Qashqai is okay as long as you're not racing on Route X or Le Mans so it stays in. It is also one of the founding fathers so to speak.

All that said, I found quite a lot of variation in race results yesterday. The cars are diverse enough to make racing interesting within their PP class.

 

[05XR8]

Indeed. Mixing up the grid changes results for me each time. I’m also digging how the cars look. Gave them all widebody and 20” wheels with standard width and offset. Good stuff.

 

[benjoi84]

Hey guys, I did a thing today. Following on from this discussion, I decided to use it as an excuse to begin a project I've been meaning to start on.

Based on the OP suggestion, and the contributions regarding circuit selection and model choice, here is my BoP Stock setup hot-lapping results for the CUVs at Lago Maggiore West End...

Optimal time after 10 laps shown. I wanted equal tyres for this test and the notes on Qashqai and Captur are just to clarify that the stock setup uses a different compound. As a bonus, I checked the fuel remaining to see how they compare in efficiency (hybrid cars battery life displayed where applicable).

Will probably apply the OP tuning options and repeat next.

I don't know if this is any use to anyone, but I'm happy to continue with these types of experiments!

 

[the Interceptor]

I don't know if this is any use to anyone, but I'm happy to continue with these types of experiments!

Keep experimenting my friend, every bit of new knowledge helps. Who knows, maybe your experiment gives people participating or just reading in this thread a fresh idea, a different look on things.

 

[05XR8]

Yeah, I'm thinking of dropping the RAV4 and CR-V. I've got them handling much better, but thinking about how they'd go as mild BTCC racers.

 

[the Interceptor]

I'm kinda reluctant with the RAV4 in the School Run also. In my opinion it is an absolute sleeper. I've tried all the family cars a few weeks ago and immediately sold all of them again except the RAV4. Fully tuned up it sounds amazing and grips much harder than the tire compound justifies. It can serve other purposes than the School Run for me, thus I may also take it out of the lineup. Not sure yet.

I also like the CR-V, I think it looks chunky and cool, specially with the aero parts. But the hybrid system lets it down, I can't find races other than the School Run to use it. It's just too slow and the engine's whining is getting on my nerves.

 

[05XR8]

Yes, the noise is annoying. Still sad about the Qashqai. Looks so good, but too quiet.

Yeah, the RAV4 is definitely the sleeper of the bunch. I placed it at the back and still found a way to slither up the grid.

 

[the Interceptor]

Update after the weekend:

• I created a lot of liveries with the generic sponsors listed in post #1. Looks great in the replay, the race series is coming together. When ready I will share all liveries, the School Run logo etc., so everybody can use cars of their choice and make their own liveries. If anybody would prefer the previously floated name "Family Feud" for the race series, let me know and I will create a logo for that, too.
• Removing the BMW i3 from the field really helped: the races now work well on faster tracks, too. This is neat also because it changes the power dynamics: cars that are great on slow tracks may be lower in topspeed than others, so the order of cars changes dynamically based on the "speed" of any track. I ran a few races on High Speed Ring yesterday and the two Afeelas give you a run for your money on the straights. The grid is still balanced, you can easily catch up to them under braking and in the corners (as they are heavy EVs).
• I found that the race setting 'boost: low' gives the best racing experience, but this is also a question of personal taste. I found that low boost lets the field stay "with you" for most of the race, so you're constantly battling someone for position. However, the performance of each car is similar enough for the race to still feel natural, there is no blatantly obvious boosting.
• Some cars cannot be raced against arbitrary opponents, e.g., the Hyundai IONIQ 5N and the Afeela Prototype. Thus you cannot drive these cars by yourself with the mixed grid intended for this race series. If you drive other cars however, those models still show up fine in the grid. So you can race against them, but you cannot drive them battling other vehicle models. If you choose to to drive them, the complete grid will be replaced with the same car model, you cannot choose any opponent cars.
• When ready I will share tuning and setups for all cars, too. In general, the goal is to aim for around 525 to 530 PP. For individual balancing I recommend adjusting engine output via the custom ECU, but also ballast weight and tire compound.
• I found that even on pro level the opponents cannot match my laptimes. Thus I am considering creating two setups for each car: one for the car as a computer opponent and one with a slightly lower performance for when you drive it yourself. This would make racing even more interesting. By choosing the right method (see previous point), it should be no problem to deliberately worsen the strengths of the car you drive to make racing more even with the rest of the field.
• Where possible I modified the engines of cars that have actual gearing so that they rev all the way to the end of the rev counter. What can I say, I just love revs and a lot of engines sound pretty awesome. I then adjusted the power back down via ECU so you get all the revs but still match the field performance-wise.
• As stated previously, the Honda CR-V Hybrid runs out of battery after few laps on faster tracks, it then relies on petrol power only. However, I found this issue to be less problematic than I feared: it seems that the electric motor boosts the Honda's performance only at low speeds, at high speeds it is the petrol engine doing all the work anyway. What bleeds the battery in this car are long fast stretches. Braking zones recharge the battery. So on slow tracks the battery will last long because there's a lot of recharging (lots of braking) and little discharging (no long straights). On fast tracks the battery may run empty on long straights, but at speed the electric motor isn't used anyway, so the battery being empty doesn't make a difference in performance. PHEV... (pun intended)
• I plan to introduce tire wear and fuel consumption to make racing even more versatile and interesting. However, I'd like to prevent pit stops. As the cars' fuel/battery consumption varies widely due to all the different technologies used, some cars would go to the pits unreasonably often. Additionally, a car's power balance often relies on tire compound. When changing tires in pit stops the AI will often chose a different compound, which would throw the car's power balance with the rest of the grid off. I will perform some tests. I believe that a balance can be found where a low setting for fuel consumption and tire wear changes dynamics throughout a race but isn't severe enough for the AI to pit before the race ends.
• I use standing starts for all races. This feature is criminally underused in GT7. It introduces extra spice fighting for the first corner: FF cars have a natural disadvantage off the line, 4WD a natural advantage over FR cars. Also, hybrids with special gearboxes (e.g., Toyota's CVT) don't need those pesky gear changes and generally have less problems with traction off the line.

 

[the Interceptor]

Current car lineup (v0.25):

Imgur

 

[the Interceptor]

• I worked some more on this race series over the weekend, mainly concentrating on getting the liveries done. I wanted to stay very basic with them, like a light racing mod. I went a bit overboard I guess, but it is a very pretty grid to look at now. I will share all liveries when I officially launch the race series. They will all be open for editing so everone can make modifications as they desire.
  
  
• Just an observation: I did a super long Route X (topspeed) race just to see what happens. Two takeaways: the two Afeelas slowly pull away at the front with a topspeed of around 230 kph (143 mph). The one car that falls back noticeably is the Nissan Quashquai with its topspeed of 160 kph (99 mph). The rest of the grid stays pretty well together with typical speeds between 180 kph (112 mph) and 210 kph (131 mph). These "issues" only become relevant on very fast tracks with long straights, so on any of the tracks selected for this race series, all cars are roughly equally fast.
  
  
• I worked on a "driver setup" yesterday - a setup with reduced speed (lower ECU setting + extra weight) for better balance with the field. The (non-Sophy) AI is limited in its abilities, so for a good overall balance the player should have a weaker car.
  • I used the Mazda CX-30. I reduced engine output via the ECU setting and added penalty weight. I don't have the exact numbers right now, sorry. I just remember the car ended up with 500 PP (the AI competition is around 530 PP).
  • I ran a few iterations of a 5 lap race at Brands Hatch Indy circuit, no boost, me always starting from last place. I didn't always finish first, but despite my less performant car I was suspiciously fast at times. I am not convinced that "boost: none" really means no boost at all. Especially towards the end of the race I felt that my car was quicker than it should be, or the competition slower. I will examine this in further testing.
  • One thing: I plan to use the full grid of currently 18 car models driven by AI for each race. My own car is then a selection of my choice as car #19 in the grid. So my exact car is twice on the grid, one driven by me and once driven by AI. I'd prefer otherwise, but this would mean that I would have to modify the grid for each single race depending on which car I use. Thus it is easier to just choose a car of my liking, load the prepared race settings and go. The issue with this is that if I use the aforementioned "driver setup", the AI equivalent of my car will automatically use that setup as well. So my AI-piloted sister car on the grid will be noticeably slower and hold up all cars behind it. That's not good.

 

[the Interceptor]

New findings from yesterday's testing:

• Making your own car slower to match the AI pace makes no sense. You have to turn it down so far that driving it loses any fun factor. You have to add significant weight (at least 100 kg = 220 lbs) and reduce engine power by at least 25 % to achieve a level playing field. As the whole race series is already slow to begin with, this renders the whole thing kind of moot. Instead I suggest to keep each setup as is (same as the AI cars).
  
  
• With the reduced engine output and added weight, I ran the same race three times: Autopolis short, 5 laps, standing start, me starting from last place (19th). The only factor I changed was the boost. Here are my positions after 5 laps of roughly equal pace:
  • Boost: off => 5th place
  • Boost: low => 16th place
  • Boost: high => 3rd place
  Clearly, the low boost gives the biggest challenge. Thus, a low boost and the same setup as AI cars it is. Anything else takes the fun out of the whole series. If you make no major mistakes you can win any race this way, but the low boost clearly gives you the best challenge doing it. Finding your way through a grid of 18 roughly equally fast cars is good fun. Based on this groundwork, I will try to make it more interesting by introducing tire wear and fuel consumption.

 

[the Interceptor]

Short update:

• When fuel consumption is introduced, the two Afeelas clearly become the limiting factor of the grid. They go to the pits first as they are EVs with a (relatively) short range, all other cars on the grid are combustion or hybrid cars. Interestingly, the Afeela 1 runs out of battery notably earlier than the Afeela Prototype. Anyway, to avoid pitstops, I will limit fuel consumption in the races to a low setting, e.g. 2x or 3x. However, I am also considering making the Afeelas faster, let them run out of battery, make them pit and then catch up to the pack again from behind. Match their Family Run pace not per lap, but over the whole race. Not sure yet, I think I will just try this out. Letting them start from the rear of the grid, they would have to go through the whole grid and lead the race for the short while, then pit and fall behind everybody, catch up to the grid and try to go through it again. This may create some interesting stir-up. Additionally, all hybrid and combustion cars will profit from emptying their tanks (less weight) over duration of the race, but the Afeelas always weigh the same.
• As expected, tire wear is largely ignored by the AI, they have no issues with shredding their tires down to the carcass, fully red. So tire wear will not lead to unwanted pitstops, which I can use. I'll try some variants here also. My initial idea is to prevent fully red tires, but to have significant wear on each car when the race ends. This introduces a new dynamic as tire wear has different consequences for FF vs AWD cars as well as manual transmissions vs automatic transmissions.