GTA 5 Controversy in Australia

[FoRiZon]

http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/12/03/target-australia-refuses-to-sell-gta-5
http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/12/04/kmart-is-also-pulling-gta-5-off-shelves-in-australia

Target Australia has announced it will be removing Grand Theft Auto V from its shelves and will no longer sell the game.

The company claims the decision was made following "feedback from customers about the game's depictions of violence against women."

Target Australia's general manager of corporate affairs Jim Cooper said the call was made because of "community and customer concern" about Rockstar's open-world crime game.

"We've been speaking to many customers over recent days about the game, and there is a significant level of concern about the game's content," said Cooper.

"We've also had customer feedback in support of us selling the game, and we respect their perspective on the issue. However, we feel the decision to stop selling GTA V is in line with the majority view of our customers."

Cooper explained that Target will continue to sell other R-rated DVDs and video games.

"While these products often contain imagery that some customers find offensive, in the vast majority of cases, we believe they are appropriate products for us to sell to adult customers. However, in the case of GTA V, we have listened to the strong feedback from customers that this is not a product they want us to sell."

A few days ago a petition on Change.org was launched by female survivors of violence in the hopes of having GTA V pulled from the shelves of Target Australia. As of writing, the campaign has gained over 40,000 supporters.

"Please Target," the campaign reads, "we appeal to you as women survivors of violence, including women who experienced violence in the sex industry, to immediately withdraw Grand Theft Auto V from sale."

It seems its only affecting Target and its chains. But its possible its going to spread beyond the chains. Now, considering how its already controversial, raises the ultimate question:

Spoiler: Sorry

Are this is linked to the gamergate?

 

[Parker]

If it is true that is was pulled because of the "depictions of violence against women" then that is a disgusting double standard. Why aren't these people upset about the thousands of men you murder in the game, or the man that you're forced to torture?

I do wonder is this means Rockstar will add male prostitutes in the game, don't want to discriminate after all, right?

 

[sumbrownkid]

I think it's disgusting that these people managed to get a store to pull a game based on lies and half truths.

I'm surprised Target USA hasn't stepped in and said stfu, we followed the ratings board, it's time you start parenting.

Besides this game has already been out for a year already on the PS3/360 and now it's an issue?

 

[FoRiZon]

Demands equal rights to women....

.......Also demands women to be treated as "special".

And they re mad about inequality when they found one.

Seriously? Mind you this is the game that allows you to kill literally everything. Man, woman, even animals whatever their job is. Not even one mission require you to kill a hooker (one mission even have to protect your own literal family).

Whats next, animal wrong group? The fact that Australian censorship is more strict than Asian countries is mind boggling considering how much we talk about west vs east culture.

I would also remind you that this is the same game that feature a literal torture (waterboard, electrocute, teethpull, etc). So the question rises: Why NOT ban it when it was released more than YEARS ago.

Spoiler: Answer?

Maybe because the preparator uses the (sorry again) Gamergate momentum to gain attention both public and court and as a result this happen.

Or because we torture a man so its "okay" I guess? /sarcasm

 

[SVX]

So the question rises: Why NOT ban it when it was released more than YEARS ago.

GTAV has not been released for years, only a year. 👍

 

[Northstar]

Two stores deciding not to sell something isn't the same thing as it being banned. For that to happen the government would have to make it illegal to purchase or own a copy of the game. All this means is that if you want to buy a copy, you'll have to give your money to some other store.

I'm surprised Target USA hasn't stepped in and said stfu, we followed the ratings board, it's time you start parenting.

The only relationship the Australian Target has with the US one is the name.


Edit: On further inspection, both Kmart AU and Target AU are owned by the same parent company, so it's not shocking they both have stopped selling the game.

 

[McLaren]

I've played through the game twice & I don't really recall anything in the game specifically depicted violence against just women; everyone is pretty much free game. If anything, as FrzGT said, the torture scene is something that should hold more concern for people wanting the game removed.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Threat title changed for accuracy.

I imagine people are focusing on the game mechanic that only works with women NPC's: the whole picking up hookers thing. If it provides a health boost while costing money, and you can kill them to reclaim said money, I suppose people could say it's encouraging violence, but that's overlooking a whole bunch of other "issues".

Though I wonder if Rockstar could play into this and introduce male hookers in the game...

 

[TenEightyOne]

GTAV has not been released for years, only a year. 👍

The whole GTA franchise is similarly-themed though, and has been around for ages, I wonder why parents weren't more upset about the content they were buying for their 12 year-olds years ago.

Target and KMart's probably haven't lost too great a portion of their projected GTAV sales overall, they've been selling the game for PS3/XB360 for over a year and the new-gen titles for several months (including pre-orders). All they're doing now is protecting Christmas sales, I think. I wonder if they would have taken this decision if the protests had begun in July 2013 when the GTAV cash cow was about to arrive at the manger rather than the little baby Jeebus?

The theme of the protest goes to more titles of course; violence, sexuality, profanity and hilarious combinations of those. The problem is that the media generally concentrate on the most infamous aspect of GTA, the use of "working services". Ahem. As @FrzGT said they miss other content completely, in my opinion the torture definitely has more potential to disturb.

So why should it even be in the game? I'd say that GTA should remain as-is because the Housers are adults telling a story, I'm an adult buying it, we can censor ourselves. The same as watching an R-rated movie or buying an R-rated novellette (from Target, for example).

I do disagree with parents buying it for their children though, I disagree with that very very strongly.

@SlipZtrEm I do think that male workers and male dancers should be included; there will be howls of protest from within the GTA "community" itself. I've read some incredible comments in other places about Trevor's apparent tastes so it would be a good way to actually send a bit of shockwave through the Alpha gamers too

 

[SlipZtrEm]

So why should it even be in the game? I'd say that GTA should remain as-is because the Housers are adults telling a story, I'm an adult buying it, we can censor ourselves. The same as watching an R-rated movie or buying an R-rated novellette (from Target, for example).

Precisely. I can watch Scarface, Sopranos, Dexter, or any of the myriad violent shows/movies Target stocks, but GTAV and one tiny feature in the game (that honestly, I almost forgot was in the newest game) is an issue. Of course, the argument would probably be that in the case of videos, we're not actively taking part in the violence being simulated, but that's splitting hairs.

I do disagree with parents buying it for their children though, I disagree with that very very strongly.

I don't. I disagree with uneducated parents buying it for their children. My parents bought me Vice City when I was in high school. They asked around about it, heard what it was about, and made an educated decision that I was mature enough to play it. They took an equally active role when it came to movies - though weirdly (and yet unsurprisingly), my dad had far less of an issue showing me extreme gore or horror at a much earlier age than any nudity of any sort. Not to say I think the rating system is bad - far from it - but it should also be treated like the movie system, where it is still left to the parents' discretion. I recognize that in the age of widespread internet, however, this is a bit harder to control.

Of course, I've watched a woman buy a child that looked no older than 8 the latest Call of Duty. That's going too far.

@SlipZtrEm I do think that male workers and male dancers should be included; there will be howls of protest from within the GTA "community" itself. I've read some incredible comments in other places about Trevor's apparent tastes so it would be a good way to actually send a bit of shockwave through the Alpha gamers too

I think it'd be a fantastic addition. And not even to piss off that demographic, as good as that would be, but I'm still surprised we have female avatar options online without the male NPC equivalent!

 

[Epic B]

Here we go again.

 

[TenEightyOne]

I do disagree with parents buying it for their children though, I disagree with that very very strongly

I don't. I disagree with uneducated parents buying it for their children. My parents bought me Vice City when I was in high school.

Fair point... I actually believe completely in free speech but reserve the right to censor what my children see... but enforcing that up to 18 years old is clearly impossible and probably mad.

However, if Target/KMart and other sellers were to spend more effort enforcing the ratings of the products they sell (and advertising that enforcement) I think it would go a long way to making people feel a little easier about the problem.

There's a gulf of difference between a 15 year old and a 12 year old so, yup

I'm still surprised we have female avatar options online without the male NPC equivalent!

There's one set of in game characters who I "kill" more than any other (I'm a tiny pixel gangsta!), and they're referred to (pardon my West Coast translation) as the Po Po.

I've never seen a Po Po made of lady-pixels in GTAV.

 

[SVX]

The whole GTA franchise is similarly-themed though, and has been around for ages, I wonder why parents weren't more upset about the content they were buying for their 12 year-olds years ago.

Ah, fair point. 👍

I've never seen a Po Po made of lady-pixels in GTAV.

There are female police officers in GTAV, they're a bit more rare but you see them often enough.

 

[TenEightyOne]

There are female police officers in GTAV, they're a bit more rare but you see them often enough.

Well, I'll go to the foot of our stairs! This clip shows one, it's GTAV gameplay so viewer discretion for the clip and channel are advised. Link. Other than the cop on the artwork (Vasquez?) I don't think I've ever seen one in the actual game.

Of course at a distance and on fire they're hard to see if you're 10-81

 

[Grayfox]

These groups annoy the hell out of me.

Games cause violence and hated of people and genders.

What happened around? 1914-1918 & 1939-1945

Wait Wars happened,
Wars caused by hate and lust for power, yet there were no video games
Things like war is overlooked by these idiots when they say video games make people violent so they can get sympathy for their cause

 

[FoRiZon]

These groups annoy the hell out of me.

Games cause violence and hated of people and genders.

What happened around? 1914-1918 & 1939-1945

Wait Wars happened,
Wars caused by hate and lust for power, yet there were no video games
Things like war is overlooked by these idiots when they say video games make people violent so they can get sympathy for their cause

Lets look at the fact:

Games reduce the number of crimes / offences. Previously people release their emotion by actually attacking/harrasing people. With games, which people know it just a virtual/not real world, people will choose to release there instead, making games a relief.

Of course, dont do this with children. They still dont have a educated enough about society. Thus the rating on games.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Lets look at the fact: Games reduce the number of crimes / offences.

I'm not sure that you can show that's correct, can you?

 

[mistersafeway]

I'm not sure that you can show that's correct, can you?

Not conclusively, although I think there was a study this year that agreed with that viewpoint. You can make a study say anything though... just like you can turn a game about killing everything - mainly male gangsters and police officers - into a game about killing women, just for some nutty crusade. Anyone would think games like this never existed, given the way GTA is portrayed as the pinnacle of misogyny. And let's not forget the game that was actually released in the west, the name of which currently escapes me, that had the sole objective of sneaking around a hospital having sex with comatosed patients. Or did Charlie Brooker forget to say that he made that one up?

 

[Liquid]

It's really strange how a country with such a reputation for good humour and mild indifference to cursing such as Australia has such an adverse reaction to GTA. As others have mentioned, it's not as though in the same places that stock GTA you can't buy a myriad of other titles featuring and even glorifying various heinous crimes.

 

[Shaun]

Personally I don't have an issue with Targets decision. They are a private business well within their rights to sell/provide what services they choose, even if they are hypocrites as has been pointen out with movie and book sales.

I do however have an issue with governments stepping in and censoring what they feel like on any given day. They can back right off to put it nicely and let me raise my children how I see fit.

 

[Grayfox]

Thus the rating on games.

Ratings are useless

8 year old cries mommy get me battlefield, mommy, mommy, mommy, mommy, I want it
Mum gives the 8n year old a game meant for over 15

And parents cant be charged with child endangerment by doing this, yet if they show them a porno "OH NO END OF THE POOR CHILD INNOCENCE" child protection services will cry

 

[TenEightyOne]

Ratings are useless

8 year old cries mommy get me battlefield, mommy, mommy, mommy, mommy, I want it
Mum gives the 8n year old a game meant for over 15

And parents cant be charged with child endangerment by doing this, yet if they show them a porno "OH NO END OF THE POOR CHILD INNOCENCE" child protection services will cry

But the classification has legal standing and is enforceable, right? I'm not saying it's being enforced but it's my belief that the mechanism is in place? Source.

 

[Liquid]

Ratings are useless

Ratings do serve somewhat of a purpose in that it covers the seller's back as long as, for example, only someone over 15 buys a 15 rated game.

The onus is on the parent/purchaser to use their common sense when giving that game to someone younger. Don't want your child playing a violent game? Don't give it to them. They whinge about it? Tough titties. You're a child, you'll have to wait.

I in fact was lucky enough to play Grand Theft Auto 2 (topdown 2D) at the age of 8 and Grand Theft Auto III at the age of 11 (full 3D) but haven't turned out to be a dangerous psychopath at all. Good parenting paid off; I knew my right from wrong.

 

[Grayfox]

I in fact was lucky enough to play Grand Theft Auto 2 (topdown 2D) at the age of 8 and Grand Theft Auto III at the age of 11 (full 3D) but haven't turned out to be a dangerous psychopath at all. Good parenting paid off; I knew my right from wrong

I played GTA1 GTA2 and GTA3, Metal Gear Solid, Syphon Filter 1, Syphon Filter 2, Syphon Filter 3 UT2004, UT3 and TF2 and I am not killing people
I want to kill/hurt some people who do stupid things that endanger others, but I know that is wrong.
But I would still be like that even without games.

 

[Famine]

Ratings are useless

8 year old cries mommy get me battlefield, mommy, mommy, mommy, mommy, I want it
Mum gives the 8n year old a game meant for over 15

... poop-stirring GTPlanet admin leans over and suggests that he's played all of the GTA games and found them to be excellent, but recommends it not to be especially child friendly and toting an 18 rating on the box.
Mum finally looks at the the rating, looks at the back, puts the box back on the shelf and screams at the child as it's dragged out of the shop.

I enjoy ruining children's weekends.

 

[Nexus]

Wait, people buy games from Kmart?

 

[mistersafeway]

... poop-stirring GTPlanet admin leans over and suggests that he's played all of the GTA games and found them to be excellent, but recommends it not to be especially child friendly and toting an 18 rating on the box.
Mum finally looks at the the rating, looks at the back, puts the box back on the shelf and screams at the child as it's dragged out of the shop.

I enjoy ruining children's weekends.

Yeah, if you can't occasionally upset a child, what's the point of being an adult?

 

[Grayfox]

... poop-stirring GTPlanet admin leans over and suggests that he's played all of the GTA games and found them to be excellent, but recommends it not to be especially child friendly and toting an 18 rating on the box.
Mum finally looks at the the rating, looks at the back, puts the box back on the shelf and screams at the child as it's dragged out of the shop.

I enjoy ruining children's weekends.

You one of very few parents that do the right thing.

 

[FoRiZon]

I'm not sure that you can show that's correct, can you?

Well recent study said so as well as most if not all of people ive met.

Also this: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/VideoGameCrueltyPotential

 

[SVT Cobra GT]

I in fact was lucky enough to play Grand Theft Auto 2 (topdown 2D) at the age of 8 and Grand Theft Auto III at the age of 11 (full 3D) but haven't turned out to be a dangerous psychopath at all. Good parenting paid off; I knew my right from wrong.

This.

This is what happened to me when I was younger. Discovered GTA 3 when I was 11 and played on it, enjoyed it immensely.
Vice City came out and all my cousins had it except me, my mum had a problem with me playing it. I made a case of the fact that I'd played GTA 3 and I had already been brought up knowing killing and harming in anyway was wrong. I was allowed to play it under supervision for a while and since then, no problems. I still haven't killed anyone in reality and I don't really plan on doing so.