GTR and other PC racers vs GT3 phyics

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newbielives

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I consider my self a pretty hardcore sim racer and now I am met with GT3.

I have played all the hardcore simulators like GTR, Rally Trophy, GPL, Sportscar GT, F1 2002, F1 career challange PC version, dreamcast F355(using controller, so doesnt count) but they all felt floaty. I am not saying I couldnt play them its just that while you are playing them you dont get the sense you are driving a real car.

GT3 on the other hand is the only game where I truly felt like I was driving. ( I do drive in real life, not some punk kid who thinks PGR is real driving :dopey: )

I have used the Driving force and Driving force Pro on these PC simulators so maybe the perfect force feedback designed for GT3 has something to do with it.

So now that I hear all this talk about GTR being the most realistic sim racer and it probably is but I think to myself is it?
 
I'm quite a new GT3 player (having the game for 3 months), but I'm into driving sims for 17 years, and driving in real life for 11 years.

IMHO GPL is the greatest driving simulator. You can feel the speed. You can feel that those cars were lightweight. You can feel those tires were narrow. You can feel that those engines were powerful (and loud!). You have to fight to complete every turn, no relaxing. I haven't driven a 1967 Grand Prix car in real life, but I suppose it must be very similar to GPL.

I think GPL is the most real sim because I have to concentrate on driving it a very similar way when I driving a real car. And I think you can learn a lot of things about driving by that "game". It teach you how to brake gently, how to drive really clean - you can use these skill in real driving.

I haven't played GTR, my system is too slow for it. :(

Rally Trophy: my favourite rally sim. Just like GPL, each car in RT has different character. I like the physics generally, but sometimes the cars feel too light. Maybe floaty is the good word, what you used.

Live For Speed: you haven't mentioned LFS. Have you tried it? You can download a trial version from:
http://www.liveforspeed.net/
Don't let the fantasy cars and track fool you, it's a hardcore sim!

GT3: it's a very good game, but not in every detail. The normal road driving is great, but the rally parts reminding me more an arcade game than driving an actual car. It's almost like there is 2 seperate game in the box: a realistic driving sim, and an arcade rally game, with 20m wide roads, and easy handling cars. It's not bad though, it's quite relaxing to do some dirt track fun after a hard endurance race.
 
I would guess GTR is the most realistic at what it does - GT cars (Oreca Viper, Gillet Vertigo, Lister Storm, Ferrari 550 etc.). I had a go at a friend's house and it felt like the rear end could really break away any moment, you could even spin right at the very exit of a corner when you thought you had finished. In that way it is easily more realistic than GT3. In most areas it will be - it is a hardcore simulation, GT3 is not. Also notably better than GT3 was the steering input - that was the main area where GTR was better.

However, it was definitely not perfect. The behaviour under braking felt wrong. The braking power seemed to be too constant throughout the braking zone - I should have been able to feel the braking power more as the speed dropped, but I couldn't. You can feel this more in GT3, and in this area (how the car feels under braking) I think GT3 is much better. I'm sure some people would disagree, but hey that's just what I think.

Even if the braking power in GT3 is a little too high overall, and the braking zones too short, the point is; it *feels* more realistic than GTR in this area.

I don't know about how much more realistically than GT3 GTR simulates experiencing the engine power of a 600 horsepower race car, because I have never experienced anything remotely like that - few of us have. But I think most of us have experienced how a car feels under braking, and I would associate this feeling more closely with GT3 than with GTR. I imagine GT4 will be even better in this area.
 
newbielives
GT3 on the other hand is the only game where I truly felt like I was driving. ( I do drive in real life, not some punk kid who thinks PGR is real driving :dopey: )
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Well, unless you drive a 600hp Lister Storm every day you wouldn't know what it feels like, would you? :p

I havent played mutch GT3 because I don't own a PS2, but when I did it was very realistic, but I haven't played enough GT3 to give a good comparison between games.
 
GTR feels alot more realistic than GT3. Hell GT3 is great, but in terms of simulation, not really up there with GTR.

In GTR, the cars really feel like they have 600 hp, in GT3, 600 hp is just another figure that will make you fast. Feathering the gas pedal in GTR is essential when you are exiting a corner, and even on the straights because of the immense amount of power. In GT3 I can mash the pedal all day long and countersteer without traction control or stability control and still the car remains really stable and under control.

I haven't driven a 600 hp car before (only 200 hp, hehe) but mashing the gas all the way GT3 and not spinning out seems a little odd while GTR seems to really emphasize the importance on throttle control.
 
What about richard burns rally?
From my sig you can tell what my opinions are about certian games with my wheel. :)
 
well i think that gt3 is the best sim that ive played... that is until i get gt4
 
I also play some simulations and driving games from GPL, Viper Racing, GTR2002 mod, GTR, LFS, Rally Trophy, RBR, CMR2, CMR4, GT3, GT4P... I use this equipment: http://users.volja.net/gturismo66/ps-two-2.jpg most of the time, only for GT4P I use the DFP set (simply change that momo on the pic) and for LFS I use DFP wheel, with those momo pedals (modified with squash ball brake and added clutch!), shifter and handbrake and it is marvelous feeling. I think that GT3 has great physics and feels very good, but is still not the real driving simulator. GT4P feels closer to realtiy for me and I'm sure GT4 will too. But still, GT3 is the best and closest to real driving experience on PS2. On PC I think that LFS is also very near the top (I just have some weird experience with bouncing cars over curbs on tracks, but in general it feels very close to real driving. GTR2002 and GTR are also very good racing simulations, and I agree that braking is a bit not real and also I found road holding and hanfling in general a bit easier in GTR than in GTR2002, where you really had to work with car (on that matter, I have just won an online league here between my friends (there were 8 of us racing for 10 weeks) and it was really good. GPL is also extremely good, for me a bit better in physics as GTR and GTR2002. Braking is very good simulated feeling on the wheel is great, handling is great. Overall I think GPL is still the best simulator of them all. And also supports thet Shifter of mine, and I don't have to tell you, how great is that feeling with momo, pedals with clutch and shifter on nordschleife in 1967 ferrari ... :D

as for rallying, RBR has just topped them all. CMR is a great game, very playable, but too arcade like. It's the best arcade or a bad simulation (whatever you want). Form that time - Rally Trophy is more simulation like than CMR.

but, that's just my opinion ... you don't have to agree ... ;)
 
I think it all makes sense now. Because I am driving a 170HP car in real life, the feeling of a 400hp car in GT3 feels about the same so I feel that its closer to reality but in fact its quite off.

A 400HP car in real life must be one hell of a control hazard :dopey:
 
something really important i noticed missing from GT3 is driver induced Understeer (turning in so much ur car just goes straight)

Live for speed has it, and it makes for a more realsitic feeling.
 
Now that you mention it, yes it was a bit odd in GT3. But in GT4P I saw it properly. If you steer more than needed, the tyre noise increases and the car doesn't steer so much anymore. In fact it's just like in my road car. Great!
 
i think most people who play gt3 dont take off tcs and asm so you might want to and try racing without asm and tcs.

also if you drive race cars they will react better because of the downforce but road cars dont have downforce so they will react more like a real car plus the next time you turn into a corner while using a road car in gt3 look at your speed and you will realize that you are going pretty fast if asm is on the car wont turn as sharply because asm is designed to stop your car from loosing control so oversteer kicks in if you take asm off you wont experience it as much so if you still feel like your car is still going straight even though its a right hander your going to fast i think people forget that a real car wont go 60 mph around a hairpin take my room mate who trys to play gt3 he fogets that he has to barke and thinks the game acts more like nfsu or nfs he loves those games and thinks that nfs series is more realistic so i dont bother to ask him to play 2 player with me because hes all over the road.

ive also had the experience of real racing and those race cars are designed to go fast around corners most road cars are not.

take note that cars on the road are made to go around corners fast at 40 mph and swerve around obsticles at 20 mph there not desighned to go around leguna seca at 100 mph plus and handle like a race car the idea is for you to by upgrades like suspension, brakes, tires and weight reduction so the car handles better at high speed and for faster cornering.
 
Yeah its sad, I had gt3 for like 2 years now and I only figured that out like 7 months ago after some experimenting with drifting and trying to figure out why I couldn't do wheelies in a 500hp car. :indiff:

sgtstix
i think most people who play gt3 dont take off tcs and asm so you might want to and try racing without asm and tcs.

also if you drive race cars they will react better because of the downforce but road cars dont have downforce so they will react more like a real car plus the next time you turn into a corner while using a road car in gt3 look at your speed and you will realize that you are going pretty fast if asm is on the car wont turn as sharply because asm is designed to stop your car from loosing control so oversteer kicks in if you take asm off you wont experience it as much so if you still feel like your car is still going straight even though its a right hander your going to fast i think people forget that a real car wont go 60 mph around a hairpin take my room mate who trys to play gt3 he fogets that he has to barke and thinks the game acts more like nfsu or nfs he loves those games and thinks that nfs series is more realistic so i dont bother to ask him to play 2 player with me because hes all over the road.

ive also had the experience of real racing and those race cars are designed to go fast around corners most road cars are not.

take note that cars on the road are made to go around corners fast at 40 mph and swerve around obsticles at 20 mph there not desighned to go around leguna seca at 100 mph plus and handle like a race car the idea is for you to by upgrades like suspension, brakes, tires and weight reduction so the car handles better at high speed and for faster cornering.
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sgtstix: Very well put. I agree with your text. I have a few friends who came and tried the game but were having troubles driving any road going car, until I intervened and explained to look at the speedometer and start do behave according to the speed or perhaps just imagine what their car is capable at that speed. After that it was better for all of them.

BTW: I allways take ASM and TCS off. I just hate it ever since it took me about 10 times more trying to get gold license in RUF RGT slalom with ASM on than the same license test without ASM on.
 
i wish there was a button to turn it on and off. cus the trueno SS launches better with TCS on most of the time... but ASM seems almost completely useless in gt4. If there were a button i'd just keep it on for the launches and then turn it off
 
personnaly i love gt3 but i cant wait for gt4 and i hope im not dissapointed with how it supposed to be amazing and i hope the AI is actually a challenge

i just restarted gt3 and i was at 98 % for the second time. im gonna try to only use the cars i win because im pretty sure there is a way of finishing this game with out buying a single car except for the first one you purchase if u take that route personnaly i didnt because i cant be asked to get all golds on license test because its so dam boring plus u dont have to get all golds u just have to get bronze so i quess its a personal goal that i aint worried about. also i started with the pt cruiser because its the most pwerful car you can purchase and you dont win the car in the game so i figure that once i buy it all the cars i win will be just a bonus i hated the fact that when i started the first time i used the miata and then i won 1 and i was pissed sorry to say but this time the pt is the car for me and its quite good i got 322 hp out of it and i beat the american cup in beginner and i blew them all away but the cobra kept up with me but i still won and now im gonna use the camero ss its a nice 300+ hp car stock plus i like chevys.
 
The only thing missing in GT3 is the G force you feel when you are in a real race car.As long as you turn off all the assists(?),it seems the best to give you that real sim feeling.
 
I don't reckon the physics of GT3 are as good as GTR, but GT3 has a better sence of speed, thats what GTR lacks and it makes it harder.
 
kart racer
The only thing missing in GT3 is the G force you feel when you are in a real race car.As long as you turn off all the assists(?),it seems the best to give you that real sim feeling.
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as i've said before, there is no driver induced understeer whatsoever with any cars. turning in too much has no downsides. if you just mash the gas, while in just about every PC sim, there is DIU. Try playing live for speed like its gt3 and you will see what i mean :)
 
sgtstix
i just restarted gt3 and i was at 98 % for the second time. im gonna try to only use the cars i win because im pretty sure there is a way of finishing this game with out buying a single car except for the first one you purchase
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that is not possible. you must buy at least two cars (one mercedes for mercedes benz races (clk55, cl600 or slk) and a TVR Speed 6 for Turscan Challenge. These cars cannot be won on other races but are only one allowed in these races. Also you will probobly have to race some races more than one time to get the needed car (renault clio for clio race in that 150 laps super speedway endurance, and amateur american championship to get the TT). So I wish you good luck doing all that!
 
Gabkicks
something really important i noticed missing from GT3 is driver induced Understeer (turning in so much ur car just goes straight)

Live for speed has it, and it makes for a more realsitic feeling.
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Talking about Live for Speed, I downloaded the demo and my 1st impression was: Hey, great stuff, it is the Granturismo serie but for the PC. The track have a Grabturismish feeling.
But my biggest desapointment was that oversteer is greatly overdone and ... unrealistic so I never ordered the complete game.
1) I played the demo using my Logitech PS2 driving force wheel so I couldn't blame it on my gamepad.
In real life, I mostly owned FF cars, so I know how a REAL FF car reacts.
That's the opposite with the GT serie: not enough understeer.
So, GT serie is underrealistic, while LFS is overrealistic.
Who know, Enthusia might be right on target.
 
perhaps you fiddled with setup too much. I don't have that kind of feelig that it is overdone. Cars seem to be a bit tail-happier than in reality, but not so much. I mean ... if you push car hard on the limit, it is unstable. I have driven two nights ago my friends BMW 520i, but not new, the old one. It is very heavy car and long and 2.0 litre engine is one of the weakest for that car, but I was just amazed how easy it goes sideways. Staying sideways with it is not so hard, but still not easy. It tends to understeer also. Really great.
 
Sorry for the super newbie post, but what does GTR stand for, everyone's raving about this game and I wanna try it...where should I look for it?

Thanks guys
 
if you do a search for "GTR Demo" at filefront.com, fileplanet.com, worthdownloading.com, or bhmotorsports.com they have a demo.
 
Biased turkey
Talking about Live for Speed, I downloaded the demo and my 1st impression was: Hey, great stuff, it is the Granturismo serie but for the PC. The track have a Grabturismish feeling.
But my biggest desapointment was that oversteer is greatly overdone and ... unrealistic so I never ordered the complete game.
1) I played the demo using my Logitech PS2 driving force wheel so I couldn't blame it on my gamepad.
In real life, I mostly owned FF cars, so I know how a REAL FF car reacts.
That's the opposite with the GT serie: not enough understeer.
So, GT serie is underrealistic, while LFS is overrealistic.
Who know, Enthusia might be right on target.
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I love the way the GTi and much more powerfull FXO handle in the game. S2 will add much more realistic suspension and traction physics. Hopefully it will be out soon. :)

I always just thought it was mostly because of the crap tires we use, but in S2 we willl have a wider choice of tires. 👍
 
MirageJHU
Sorry for the super newbie post, but what does GTR stand for, everyone's raving about this game and I wanna try it...where should I look for it?

Thanks guys
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http://www.gtr-game.com/

this is a game, that is being done (very very near it's completion) by the SimBin Development Team, who have allready done GTR2002 mod for F12002. That mod was AWESOME, really very realistic and good game to play. So after the success of that mod and after a lot of positive feedback of the players they decided to make their own standalone game with even improved physics, graphics and everything. I have played the demo and the german version which is allready out and it is simply incredible. The sound, the experience of playing that is great!
 
vipersan
perhaps you fiddled with setup too much. .
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No, I tried the game with the default settings. That's what bothered me.
That's completely unrealistic being forced to brake 50 meters before taking a "normal curve" in order to avoid understeer.
It's a pity, because imho LFS is the only PC game that could compete with the Granturismo serie ( Forget about TOCA Race Driver ).
 
hmmm, that is weird .... And yes, TOCA race driver is a LOL ... :)
 
Biased turkey
No, I tried the game with the default settings. That's what bothered me.
That's completely unrealistic being forced to brake 50 meters before taking a "normal curve" in order to avoid understeer.
It's a pity, because imho LFS is the only PC game that could compete with the Granturismo serie ( Forget about TOCA Race Driver ).
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sure you're not turning in too quickly? the developers have admitted that the physics arent pefect, and they will be greatly improved in S2, but i dont really have any crazy problems with the physics, except its a bit too easy to break traction. I've gotten used to shifting weight in the game so understeer is almost never a problem. When i first started playing i used to understeer alot though. 👍
 
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