GTR Revival from Ian Bell with the original GTR2/SimBin crew announced

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PJTierney
Since this is patent pending, that must mean there’s a patent filing accessible online somewhere, right?
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I did look quickly, but couldn't find anything. I'll have more of a dig over the weekend, but the text in the beginning of the video reads and looks just like a patent application abstract...

On one level I like the idea. It certainly would add to the immersion, although I'd hope it's not permanently on in races; drivers don't listen to that while they're racing, so hopefully it's either piped through public address systems to add to track atmosphere or just on replays.

However I also don't. Creatives are having A Bad Time Of Things with people thinking AI can do art (usually trained on existing art, neatly using artists' own art to do them out of jobs while also being incapable of drawing fingers or the right number thereof) and write (CNET, among others, publishes articles written by ChatGPT, after heavy editing), without ****ing over the spoken word too. And I'm not sure how they synthesised Joy and Bowyer's voices saying things they've never said; bit alarming they'd happily agree to it...


Game-changer? I can't see it radically altering the landscape of racing games. Hell, if they succeed it patenting it (which, if it's based off OpenAI GPT-2/GPT-3, won't happen) it probably won't alter any racing games other than S4S's titles, and I don't see how it radically changes how players play or experience the game.

Look at the patentable examples I gave in my previous article. Nemesis literally changes how you play and experience SOM over other similar titles, by giving you a personal connection with the enemy that persists and evolves. The Ping system gives you precise game communication without opening your ears to the world of 12-year-olds-screaming-homophobia-racism-and-threats-down-their-mics that you usually find in games where such communication is needed, giving an entirely different game experience and allowing the players to play in an wholly different way.

Of course I'll reserve judgment until we see it. Or hear it.
 
Famine
I did look quickly, but couldn't find anything. I'll have more of a dig over the weekend, but the text in the beginning of the video reads and looks just like a patent application abstract...

On one level I like the idea. It certainly would add to the immersion, although I'd hope it's not permanently on in races; drivers don't listen to that while they're racing, so hopefully it's either piped through public address systems to add to track atmosphere or just on replays.

However I also don't. Creatives are having A Bad Time Of Things with people thinking AI can do art (usually trained on existing art, neatly using artists' own art to do them out of jobs while also being incapable of drawing fingers or the right number thereof) and write (CNET, among others, publishes articles written by ChatGPT, after heavy editing), without ****ing over the spoken word too. And I'm not sure how they synthesised Joy and Bowyer's voices saying things they've never said; bit alarming they'd happily agree to it...


Game-changer? I can't see it radically altering the landscape of racing games. Hell, if they succeed it patenting it (which, if it's based off OpenAI GPT-2/GPT-3, won't happen) it probably won't alter any racing games other than S4S's titles, and I don't see how it radically changes how players play or experience the game.

Look at the patentable examples I gave in my previous article. Nemesis literally changes how you play and experience SOM over other similar titles, by giving you a personal connection with the enemy that persists and evolves. The Ping system gives you precise game communication without opening your ears to the world of 12-year-olds-screaming-homophobia-racism-and-threats-down-their-mics that you usually find in games where such communication is needed, giving an entirely different game experience and allowing the players to play in an wholly different way.

Of course I'll reserve judgment until we see it. Or hear it.
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I would like to think there would be a way to use this sofware technology while also combining it with a human element (ie lots of custom dialogue recorded by actors for this specific job) to make the best possible end product for the consumer.

I'm probably being overly optimistic, but I like to think this is a way of providing a better experience, and not just cutting dev costs and being able to employ less people.

TBH I don't care about commentary that much though with how I play. I'd probably end up disabling/muting it anyways. I'm more interesting in the physics and modability of the game.
 
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Interesting.....however agree not really game changer. I would expect that would take a lot of coding (lots of code files) to even have small chance of not becomming repetitous on commentary. For sure would want option to turn off on live races, and just have on in replays.

I do like the fact that project cars has an okay spotter function. I am just casual sim racer and not one to want to run different out side apps even if helps provide more "realism"

I do think that there would be a market to blend a GT or Forza style game with a sim based game.
Imagine what could be done with say GT7 roster, minus majority of lower powered factory cars and GT2. Imagine what could be done with GT or Forza where players could create a vast array of race events/time challenges and other users could instantly down load from a pool of race events. In my mind - heck I would have offline events that might change month to month or even week to week. Not only that but each race could be different within a certain amount of variables.
 
NekoPufferPPP
Of course things went downhill after the buyout. The thing that killed PC3 was the marketing which codies insisted upon. He lost control over his own game. I remember his early comments about the game, intending to make it a successor to NFS Shift, and was meant to be called PCARS Revolution, but then the studio got bought.

After that whole fiasco, people developed the wrong perception, blaming him and saying he lied. Unfortunately he had no choice. He shouldn't have sold out to codies, that was the biggest mistake.

We're talking about a guy who created PCARS 1 and 2. I have no reason to question his abilities, and now that he's not under anyone's command anymore, I expect great things. The man's passion is admirable.
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To be fair, PCARS 1 and 2 never lived up to his hype either... They were decent games but nothing like the "revolution" they were talked up to be, and still with some massive flaws
 
The interesting thing that stands out to me in the video is "including but not limited to analysis, coaching, tactics, and assistance".

It looks like it can also be used to give advice during practice sessions, and explaining how certain setups affect the cars' handling, or what line to take through a corner, etc.

Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but that would be a useful feature.
 
As someone from the software and tech industry, I’ve seen a lot of fancy tech being waved in front of people as if it were magic. Often to impress people with technobabble so it’s easier to separate them from their money. A few recent examples are crypto and AI. Could this work and add value to games? Yes, it can. Is it a gamechanging and revolutionary thing? Nope. Current AI/ML tech is just and advanced version of ELIZA. Useful for sure, but hardly a revolution.

Oh btw before this, Ian was talking about a ‘revolutionary’ game that involved crypto. That wasn’t a revolution either (or even useful).

I’m pretty sure this studio can churn out a decent sim. But not if they focus on ********.
 
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It's not a game-changing "feature," but it is at least a new feature and one where the tech could possibly carry over to other racing games and sports games in general.
 
Famine
I did look quickly, but couldn't find anything. I'll have more of a dig over the weekend, but the text in the beginning of the video reads and looks just like a patent application abstract...

On one level I like the idea. It certainly would add to the immersion, although I'd hope it's not permanently on in races; drivers don't listen to that while they're racing, so hopefully it's either piped through public address systems to add to track atmosphere or just on replays.

However I also don't. Creatives are having A Bad Time Of Things with people thinking AI can do art (usually trained on existing art, neatly using artists' own art to do them out of jobs while also being incapable of drawing fingers or the right number thereof) and write (CNET, among others, publishes articles written by ChatGPT, after heavy editing), without ****ing over the spoken word too. And I'm not sure how they synthesised Joy and Bowyer's voices saying things they've never said; bit alarming they'd happily agree to it...


Game-changer? I can't see it radically altering the landscape of racing games. Hell, if they succeed it patenting it (which, if it's based off OpenAI GPT-2/GPT-3, won't happen) it probably won't alter any racing games other than S4S's titles, and I don't see how it radically changes how players play or experience the game.

Look at the patentable examples I gave in my previous article. Nemesis literally changes how you play and experience SOM over other similar titles, by giving you a personal connection with the enemy that persists and evolves. The Ping system gives you precise game communication without opening your ears to the world of 12-year-olds-screaming-homophobia-racism-and-threats-down-their-mics that you usually find in games where such communication is needed, giving an entirely different game experience and allowing the players to play in an wholly different way.

Of course I'll reserve judgment until we see it. Or hear it.
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I think they'll struggle to patent it like you say, also as I linked above, it has been explored before in the specific context of racing games.
 
It wasn't so long ago that instead of 'fighting' against the name and marketing decisions for PCars3, he was telling anyone who would listen that the game was the pinnacle of SIM racing and was a 'game changer' ( there's that overused phrase ). Remember how much he was so vocal about how no pitstops and magic tyres that changed compound on track would keep the excitement of racing without being bogged down with strategy? Then there was " if it's not for you, don't buy it " comments.
Now he says he was against it. Didn't seem that way at the time.
Then came Leaf Simulator!
Now it's AI commentary, wow let's fall for the chatgpt smokescreen. Never mind that real commentators could be used, but that's fine, they don't need jobs like this.

His track record stinks. This will be no different.
 
SPURS3420
It's not a game-changing "feature," but it is at least a new feature and one where the tech could possibly carry over to other racing games and sports games in general.
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Thing with announcements like this: what’s the value for us as players? What makes this better for us than having real commenters? Project CARS/2 had the actual Stig (Ben Collins) providing feedback on your driving and strategy. And he’s on the team now too. So why announce that this is such a special thing? Seems like a relatively small feature in the grand scheme of a sim title.

Esp. given other innovations Ian and team previously did: e.g. LiveTrack was absolutely a really awesome thing at the time IMO.

Not sure if I recall this correctly but they also had a massive amount of cars in a race in PC1 compared to what was the norm at the time. (Feel free to correct if wrong though ) Real-time lighting and day/night cycle at the same time too. And there’s probably more that was really innovative.
 
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NLxAROSA
What makes this better for us than having real commenters?
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Repetition and personalisation.

Unless they're going to Majel Barrett-Roddenberry it*, the way commentators work in games is they record a whole bunch of lines and then the game picks the right lines at the right time. Eventually, and because people tend to have their own driving styles and abilities, the commentary becomes stale because you keep hearing the same lines.

GPT-2 is trained on over seven billion words from a variety of sources and writes its own lines, so rather than pre-recorded lines you get new dialogue every time; you might never hear the same lines twice, and you can incorporate player names into it (which other games bypass by avoiding it entirely or getting you to pick from pre-selected names) without... much fear of butchered pronunciation.


*She recorded a bank of sounds so that they could be spliced together into pretty much any line, in order that she could be the voice of the Federation ships' computer in Star Trek in perpetuity.
 
Although AI-generated commentary sounds about as exciting as Crime & Punishment, the actually useful… uses that this technology could be used in (Idk what I’m saying at this point) are massive.
An AI-generated race engineer who can take your driving style and offer personalised setup or driving tips would be an actual game changer
 
I think this can be a nice addition especially during replays. It would be awesome if during the replay you could choose to have it focus on specifics cars
 
What defines a "game changing or revolutionary feature"? A lot of people say PC2 failed to be a "game changer" after Ian said it would be. What was promised vs what wasn't delivered as "game changing"? Dynamic weather and time IMO was game changing, because I can't recall any console game that featured it before PC2 (please correct me if I'm wrong). Now GT, Forza and ACC use it. Even Assetto Corsa requires a PC and mods to have dynamic weather. I'm pretty sure PC games featured it before, but are there any console games that had this feature before PC2? I don't recall the original Project Cars having it. I know it had weather, but I don't think it was dynamic.
 
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cjsrt4
Dynamic weather and time IMO was game changing, because I can't recall any console game that featured it before PC2 (please correct me if I'm wrong).
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GT5. Ah, those 24hr races were so fun... Driving into the night, sometimes it rains at random.

PC2's weather system is much more alive though, and I think dry lines are supposed to form realistically, unlike in GT7, where they appear only on the pre-determined racing line. The one big issue with PC2's puddles though is, the AI isn't affected by them nearly as much as the player is, and it was never fixed.
 
NekoPufferPPP
GT5. Ah, those 24hr races were so fun... Driving into the night, sometimes it rains at random.

PC2's weather system is much more alive though, and I think dry lines are supposed to form realistically, unlike in GT7, where they appear only on the pre-determined racing line. The one big issue with PC2's puddles though is, the AI isn't affected by them nearly as much as the player is, and it was never fixed.
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I remember the endurance races, but I don't remember dynamic weather. It's been a while since I've played a GT game other than 7.
 
love him or hate him, ian bell is a genius. Few are people who take big risks and try to reinvent the wheel. Innovation and creativity can be a hit or miss. A hit like pc1 and pc2 or a miss like pc3. Either way we need people like ian bell otherwise we will have the same games under different names, aka forza and gt.
Kaz and PD are also known for pushing the envelope. It's a shame that in the last few years, they went on a totally different path, which is "the real photography simulator"
 
Tool1312
Ai race engineer, didn't Forza have this ages ago with the drivatar?
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No, drivatars where something you race against, not a race engineer or commentary. It bases the AI off player behaviour and learns how people drive to make the drivatars more believable. Debatable as to whether it worked but I'd take it over other games AI.
 
ravaline
Either way we need people like ian bell otherwise we will have the same games under different names, aka forza and gt.
Kaz and PD are also known for pushing the envelope.
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Agreed. Thing is that if you don't regularly deliver on your promises, you're not actually pushing the envelope, you're just someone shouting at random. And we have only seen empty promises after PC2. I for one would love Bell and team to come up with a worthy successor to PC1/2 and have all kinds of innovative features. But I'm not seeing that yet.
 
I
Tool1312
It wasn't so long ago that instead of 'fighting' against the name and marketing decisions for PCars3, he was telling anyone who would listen that the game was the pinnacle of SIM racing and was a 'game changer' ( there's that overused phrase ). Remember how much he was so vocal about how no pitstops and magic tyres that changed compound on track would keep the excitement of racing without being bogged down with strategy? Then there was " if it's not for you, don't buy it " comments.
Now he says he was against it. Didn't seem that way at the time.
Then came Leaf Simulator!
Now it's AI commentary, wow let's fall for the chatgpt smokescreen. Never mind that real commentators could be used, but that's fine, they don't need jobs like this.

His track record stinks. This will be no different.
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I understand where Ian comes from with PC3 he knew he had a bad product but he couldn't say that out loud no execytive selling their product does.
Ak1504
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Is the appeal here that you could use any voice you want as a engineer?Because that's a big no-no from a copyright's perspective.
 
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Wow ... I find this too good to be true. The engineer assistance in pCars2 (through written questions and answers) is an already good addition but is very limited. This is something else entirely ...
 
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NekoPufferPPP
Now THIS IS game-changing. A coach you can talk to in real time. Even breaks down the strategies for your race. Actually brilliant.
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If they could really make this work even in say an introductory way. Then further develope along the way then this really could be an industry game changer. Could definitely get more people involved in sim racing instead of just arcade car sims. It would be really great if you could choose saved set-ups, pit styles just by voice command. Maybe have race engineer confirm you have the correct set-up, pit style prior to starting qualifying or a race etc. Even better and more amazing would be if the set-up changes that are recommend could automatically changed in the pits or as minimum saved to a set-up file. Basically might as well have the software go ahead and make the set-up changes, of course users can manually adjust.

Cool Stuff ....if can make it really work

Seems like would be way to difficult to make work to any usable level. I am saying this based on things like Google assistant not being able to understand what you say the first time probably less then 25% of the time. Not sure how in the world they could get this to work, especially durring real time conversations. Not to mention all the different languages, speech dialog, and so many other things that would have to be considered.
 
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