Hamilton: At least he's winning something

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Certainly racking up the awards already.

BBC East Sports Personality of The Year
Autosports International Driver of The Year
Autosports Rookie of the Year
Autosports British Competition Driver of The Year

Not bad for a first season (and no...this ain't an appreciation thread :grumpy: lol)
 
But he didn't win the thing that actually matters.
 
He lost to Nigel Mansell and the Stig just by 0.3 seconds in the wet and oily track condition (well, Clarkson said it anyways.....) Think he could beat the Stig if it was on a dry weather conditions... :D
 
I dunno, looking at the lap, it looked pretty slow through the corners, maybe the BBC made up the time to play to the British audience..
 
Let's hope Hamilton doesn't wind up getting indicted for perjury, or put on 60 pounds and develop a gigantic head.
 
Bee
I dunno, looking at the lap, it looked pretty slow through the corners, maybe the BBC made up the time to play to the British audience..
That's what I was thinking too.
 
Bee
I dunno, looking at the lap, it looked pretty slow through the corners, maybe the BBC made up the time to play to the British audience..

Conspiracy theories are just so exciting.
 
I thought he looked neat and tidy (quite unlike how he looks on the circuit) but well on top of things. Thought he looked quick but I was also surprised how well he did.
 
I'm not convinced that a dry lap in the Suzuki is worth 3 seconds over a wet/damp/possibly oily lap. The Top Gear test track consists of either easy flat-out or slow corners. Time in the dry is only going to be made up over a wet lap under braking or through medium-fast corners. The circuit has no medium-fast corners. Since the Suzuki has very modest tyres and ABS braking and the track has only two areas where you will be braking heavily - i doubt much time will be gained in the dry. Any slight advantages the car has in these areas in the dry are likely to be almost cancelled out by the advantages of better being able to slide the car on a slightly wet surface through the slower corners.
 
Bee
I dunno, looking at the lap, it looked pretty slow through the corners, maybe the BBC made up the time to play to the British audience..
He was in the older car, though, since they started the F1 laps in the Suzuki Liana or whatever it's called but now they use a slightly faster car...

In any case, there is no way in hell that the BBC would do that given the recent scandals relating to 'maintaining the public trust'. They've been put on the rack for rigging a cat-naming competition on Blue Peter for goodness sake (the public originally voted for it to be called Muhammed.... I think...) and every member of BBC staff has received multiple reminders (via email) about maintaining the highest levels of transparency and honesty in every aspect of their work... so no, it's probably not fake...
 
He was in the older car, though, since they started the F1 laps in the Suzuki Liana or whatever it's called but now they use a slightly faster car...

In any case, there is no way in hell that the BBC would do that given the recent scandals relating to 'maintaining the public trust'. They've been put on the rack for rigging a cat-naming competition on Blue Peter for goodness sake (the public originally voted for it to be called Muhammed.... I think...) and every member of BBC staff has received multiple reminders (via email) about maintaining the highest levels of transparency and honesty in every aspect of their work... so no, it's probably not fake...


Hey famine you changed your username!
 
He cut the corner at Hammerhead by about 1-2 meters, don't know how much time that would give him but 1:44.7 is still pretty damn impressive.

Edit: Maybe my Hamilton/Top Gear thread shouldn't have been locked since people are discussing the matter here. Double standard anyone?
 
The BBC Sports Personality awards are from British nominators for British sportsman only. The British public then vote on who they want to win. (In any case, even as a Finn, can you seriously see Kimi Raikkonen winning Sports Personality of the year? ;))

FYI: You can see the nominations for the BBC SPOTY (:crazy:) here.

The Autosport Awards are voted for by the readers of Autosport (a racing British magazine). Of course Hamilton would do well, in the same way Raikkonen would be almost guaranteed to win if it were a Finnish magazine running the competition and having the Finnish population voting on it. (Almost guaranteed because, you never know, Marcus Gronholm - who won International Rally Driver of the Year at the Autosport Awards - might sneak it.)
 
Bee
I dunno, looking at the lap, it looked pretty slow through the corners, maybe the BBC made up the time to play to the British audience..

Seems similar to me. And this brings me to another point...

I thought he looked neat and tidy (quite unlike how he looks on the circuit) but well on top of things. Thought he looked quick but I was also surprised how well he did.

There are two sorts of "neat and tidy" driving. One actually isn't. A driver on the very limit will never look "smooth" from the driver's perspective. Small changes to the steering, throttle and brakes will be constantly needed in order to meet the demands of slight changes in tyre-grip, surface, weight-transfer and whatnot. The key would be doing those changes quickly and precisely enough to keep it on that edge - which would, in turn, still look neat and tidy from the outside, since he'll perfectly keep his line.

At the same time, you can look perfectly smooth through a corner with a constant steering-wheel position - but more often than not, that will be slower. At the very limit, it doesn't look smooth.

I'm not convinced that a dry lap in the Suzuki is worth 3 seconds over a wet/damp/possibly oily lap. The Top Gear test track consists of either easy flat-out or slow corners. Time in the dry is only going to be made up over a wet lap under braking or through medium-fast corners. The circuit has no medium-fast corners. Since the Suzuki has very modest tyres and ABS braking and the track has only two areas where you will be braking heavily - i doubt much time will be gained in the dry. Any slight advantages the car has in these areas in the dry are likely to be almost canceled out by the advantages of better being able to slide the car on a slightly wet surface through the slower corners.

It also didn't look that wet to me. Just damp. The type of damp where Formula 1 cars still use Dry tyres.



And the tyres are probably cheap all-seasons, easily capable of handling a bit of dampness. And lest we forget, he used a few corners a bit beyond the yellow lines, using the grass and beyond-the-stripes bit a bit like a rumble-strip. Take hammerhead and that last corner.

Pouring more fuel in the fire... is it just me or are those awards from British nominators? :odd:

Seems to same to me. BBC is obvious, and AutoSport are from Teddington, Middlesex, United Kingdom.
 
Edit: Maybe my Hamilton/Top Gear thread shouldn't have been locked since people are discussing the matter here. Double standard anyone?
Your thread was created to discuss something was already being discussed in the proper thread in the correct place.

This thread was created to discuss Hamilton's recent awards and has migrated to the Hamilton on Top Gear subject. It shouldn't really be being discussed here either, but it's too far gone to split.

There is a difference.
 
There are two sorts of "neat and tidy" driving. One actually isn't. A driver on the very limit will never look "smooth" from the driver's perspective. Small changes to the steering, throttle and brakes will be constantly needed in order to meet the demands of slight changes in tyre-grip, surface, weight-transfer and whatnot. The key would be doing those changes quickly and precisely enough to keep it on that edge - which would, in turn, still look neat and tidy from the outside, since he'll perfectly keep his line.

And if you look at the footage he is always making corrections, like any good driver. I have no doubts about the time. It wasn’t that wet.
 
In a Telegraph interview Hamilton said these award ceremonies combined with all the work he has to do now as the only driver for Mclaren have led to him being quite busy and worn out.

So people, vote for someone else!


P.s. I'd also like to point out that one of the Finalists for young sports personality of teh year is in my college, he also drives a Mercedes CLK at 17/18... He also nearly always parks in a disabled bay. Wonder what Tanny Gray-Thompson would say?
 
In a Telegraph interview Hamilton said these award ceremonies combined with all the work he has to do now as the only driver for Mclaren have led to him being quite busy and worn out.

So people, vote for someone else!

Yes - James Toseland, please.
 
I'm not convinced that a dry lap in the Suzuki is worth 3 seconds over a wet/damp/possibly oily lap. The Top Gear test track consists of either easy flat-out or slow corners. Time in the dry is only going to be made up over a wet lap under braking or through medium-fast corners. The circuit has no medium-fast corners. Since the Suzuki has very modest tyres and ABS braking and the track has only two areas where you will be braking heavily - i doubt much time will be gained in the dry. Any slight advantages the car has in these areas in the dry are likely to be almost cancelled out by the advantages of better being able to slide the car on a slightly wet surface through the slower corners.
I'd say it's worth about 3 seconds to the average driver, to a formula 1 driver, that difference between wet and dry should be smaller. As for sliding the car out in the slow corners, that will slow you down even more. There is no advantage to a lap in the wet over a lap in the dry performance wise. Areas of the track like the follow through will be vastly different to drive in the wet than the dry, your car could very well just aquaplane off the track if you go full throttle through it, but in the dry you can. The hammerhead is a heavy braking corner that requires a lot of traction from the tyres going round it as well. I'd say that corner alone could be worth close to 1 second in wet conditions over dry.
 
And if you look at the footage he is always making corrections, like any good driver. I have no doubts about the time. It wasn’t that wet.

So the field here is split between those who believe the time is right, but it wasn't wet enough to really affect the time, and those who believe it's a fake.

And on we move...
 
There are two sorts of "neat and tidy" driving. One actually isn't. A driver on the very limit will never look "smooth" from the driver's perspective. Small changes to the steering, throttle and brakes will be constantly needed in order to meet the demands of slight changes in tyre-grip, surface, weight-transfer and whatnot. The key would be doing those changes quickly and precisely enough to keep it on that edge - which would, in turn, still look neat and tidy from the outside, since he'll perfectly keep his line.

That's the neat and tidy I was talking about. He was adjusting any sliding very early on and generally keeping the car pretty evenly balanced. He was driving more like A. Prost than, say, J. Scheckter. In his F1 car he seems to prefer to introduce a bit more movement to the rear. I was expecting more oversteer from him in the Suzi but he kept it contained. It would also look neater inside the car as he'd be making small corrections to the controls, whereas if he was sliding about all over the place he'd be making large corrections. The last corner was a case in point. He got a little bit of lift off oversteer in entry, made a small correction and gathered it all up without really moving off line. Compare that to Damon Hill's lap, which also looked quite neat, when he got oversteer going into, I think, Hammerhead. He corrected it quickly but with too much steering and as a result the front wheels moved a good foot wide of his original line.
 
As for sliding the car out in the slow corners, that will slow you down even more.

An FF car like the Liana is going to naturally understeer, being able to slide the car around and get the back end out a little will give the car a more neutral attitude - which should be slightly faster.

Areas of the track like the follow through will be vastly different to drive in the wet than the dry, your car could very well just aquaplane off the track if you go full throttle through it, but in the dry you can.

The follow through is usually taken flat-out, wet or dry, by the celebrities. I'm sure it will always be taken flat by the F1 stars, even in the wet.

The hammerhead is a heavy braking corner that requires a lot of traction from the tyres going round it as well. I'd say that corner alone could be worth close to 1 second in wet conditions over dry.

I'm sure the mighty 195/55 R15's that the Liana rides on, suffer less traction issues in the wet than all the fat, semi-slick tyres that the supercars and the like use.

But like you said, the F1 drivers will certainly have closer wet/dry lap times than the mere mortals do.
 
So the field here is split between those who believe the time is right, but it wasn't wet enough to really affect the time, and those who believe it's a fake.

And on we move...

While I won't say if I believe it to be fake or not I just want to mention an observation I had a while back. Here in the States they probably won't show the Hamilton episode until later in the year. BBC America has started showing Top Gear in the States. One episode that they showed a while back was the one where the three of them had to each purchase a tractor to grow their own fuel. The Star in a Reasonably Priced Car was Kristin Scott Thomas. When they showed her lap I noticed that in some shots the car had mud on it down by the wheels and in other shots the car was spotless. Here is a video that shows what I mean.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g58kFEZjOvY
 
Well, Lewis comes second again. He was odds-on favourite to win BBC Sports Personality of the Year 2007, but lost out in a public vote to boxer Joe Calzaghe. Calzaghe was arguably the only serious contender to challenge Hamilton, and nobody can say that he's not a deserved winner - but Lewis must be wondering what the hell he has to do to win... I was genuinely surprised that Lewis came second. I wonder if alot of the phone votes came from Oxford ;)
 
Well, Lewis comes second again. He was odds-on favourite to win BBC Sports Personality of the Year 2007, but lost out in a public vote to boxer Joe Calzaghe. Calzaghe was arguably the only serious contender to challenge Hamilton, and nobody can say that he's not a deserved winner - but Lewis must be wondering what the hell he has to do to win... I was genuinely surprised that Lewis came second. I wonder if alot of the phone votes came from Oxford ;)

:D
 
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