Have we seen the last of License tests in Gran Turismo?
- Thread starter 05XR8
- 25 comments
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- 31
- Cambridge
- BlackEagleUK
I think they will stay, they are part of the GT game, if they are dropped it will make it more like 'other' racing games and as thelvynau mentioned, people do pick up driving tips from them.
- 31
- Cambridge
- BlackEagleUK
Me too, would be great if we all had to pass licence tests for racing online as well, that'd teach the noobs to race properly!
That would be great, not sure if you have played iRacing at all but they have a points system that separates the men from the noobs and you can't access certain races until you are at a set level.
If PD were smart the license tests would be like the real world progression part of GT Academy. Starting out with basics at Silverstone (Without the competition aspect of course), getting your first racing licenses, then going out to compete in the minor racing leagues, building up your rep and experience. You would then be given further racing licenses during A-Spec as you complete goals. NOT having to win every race though and grind, just complete races cleanly, rack up miles etc. The culmination would be getting your final racing licence to do ALMS, Le Mans, GT1, SuperGT etc in the Pro racing section.
- 8,698
That's nice as a sort of story / career mode offering, but what about the original intention of the licence tests: driver training? When it comes to doing your real racing licence, you already need to know how to drive to a certain level. I don't think it'd be terribly realistic if a story mode started out with a braking test...
I say leave the licence tests as they are in GT mode, and include your real-world Academy-style progression (which I like) in what should hopefully be a career mode, and leave out any requirement for tests totally in the sandbox mode. All hypothetical, of course.
EDIT: Also like the licence filtering option for online; not sure how that should fall into the overall structure of licences I hinted at above, though.
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- 6,804
- The Netherlands
Me too, would be great if we all had to pass licence tests for racing online as well, that'd teach the noobs to race properly!
I think you should still be able to go online without a license but I would like a license filtering option where the host can only allow people to enter with a certain license (maybe even opting for Gold/Silver-only).
That'll give the licenses a purpose again (and an incentive to obtain them) and makes sure only people who at least made an effort (which isn't foolproof ofcourse) can join.
I see what you're saying but do we really need to start right at the basics every game? I know there are obviously new players with each game but I imagine anyone playing a racing games knows the basic idea of accelerating, braking and cornering. I would envisage the Academy style progression to start with basic racing techniques. I didn't watch any of the coverage of what they did really but I imagine they started out with simple slaloms, the racing line etc, similar to some of the current tests. I just don't think trying to make it around one corner in 15.3 seconds or whatever is really going to help anything though so that angle could be removed.
You could include some basic tips in the style of an academy coach though I guess, if you are doing things correctly you'll fly through but if you're mashing the throttle and getting bad starts or something you could just get a tip, "try to do it like this" or "you're not getting off the throttle and onto the brake quick enough", like a real racing school.
I just think there should only be one license full of basics, not several with similar ideas getting harder which you have now, like doing B-license in a FWD car then doing the same test in A-license with a RWD car. One basic racing license then the rest are acquired through real racing experience, like the real world. You don't get a license to race in F1 by completing a GT style S-License, you get it through years of racing experience once you have a basic license.
- 8,698
No, the best way to learn is by doing - I don't want some automated idiot telling me how to drive like the AI (which I could learn better by watching them anyway), because that's the only way it could be done in a game, short of bundling an instructor with every copy. Decent telemetry (and example / comparison laps) would do the same thing anyway.
Rather than continually do lap after lap and make compound mistakes that affect subsequent corners, you should start with single corners, build up to how two corners affect each other, then start putting it all together. As such, there should be a driving school, a set of challenges, and the proper licence progression; the licence tests of previous games combined all three elements, which of course is very game-y (I think this is a point we agree on, though).
GT should be aimed at everyone, and it should have the lowest rungs on the ladder, otherwise it's just elitist - driving cars quickly and effectively is difficult, and not intuitive to everyone, and you shouldn't expect people to magically glean that ability from nowhere. It doesn't have to be compulsory, but accessibility is really important. If you can't access what a game offers, how can you enjoy it? And if you're not enjoying games, what's the point?
Rather than continually do lap after lap and make compound mistakes that affect subsequent corners, you should start with single corners, build up to how two corners affect each other, then start putting it all together. As such, there should be a driving school, a set of challenges, and the proper licence progression; the licence tests of previous games combined all three elements, which of course is very game-y (I think this is a point we agree on, though).
GT should be aimed at everyone, and it should have the lowest rungs on the ladder, otherwise it's just elitist - driving cars quickly and effectively is difficult, and not intuitive to everyone, and you shouldn't expect people to magically glean that ability from nowhere. It doesn't have to be compulsory, but accessibility is really important. If you can't access what a game offers, how can you enjoy it? And if you're not enjoying games, what's the point?
I agree but i'm all saying is you only need to do each type of test once. For example once it's taught you the basic idea of taking corners that should be it, not "Now let's do that on this corner...and this corner...". Just one set of 15 or 20 basic tests and that should be it, the rest should be earnt out on the track.
- 7,529
- Exorcet
- OE Exorcet
What they're called doesn't make much difference. Why not call them license tests? That's what they are, they're just optional.
Although, I'd replace the licenses with a driving school that's designed to teach driving technique. It would have no impact on what races you could enter.
Although, I'd replace the licenses with a driving school that's designed to teach driving technique. It would have no impact on what races you could enter.
Well because a license test insinuates you'll receive a license for completing it, which you do. If that license is meaningless and you don't need it for anything what's the point of it? It'd be like if real world driving license tests became optional, they'd be pointless if you didn't need one.
- 428
- Dulles VA
- dyingfetusmike
SimonK - I love your progression idea, sounds epic 👍
Sadly I fear the more GT titles are catered to accessibility and especially sandbox gameplay, the less the license tests will matter. They even tried simply locking down one circuit (Nordschleife) until you passed a skill test (AMG Academy) and even that requirement was eventually removed.
Personally I don't mind having to go through the license tests all over again - good drivers who think the licenses are silly should breeze right through them in no time. In GT5 I repeated all 60 tests several times, especially when I started driving with ABS off which made them even more challenging (and much more fun than repeating all of A-Spec with ABS off, which seemed like a good idea but wasn't). I have to admit though the more they have messed up the AI and the tire physics the less I've bothered to replay them. But I still look forward to doing them in GT6.
Sadly I fear the more GT titles are catered to accessibility and especially sandbox gameplay, the less the license tests will matter. They even tried simply locking down one circuit (Nordschleife) until you passed a skill test (AMG Academy) and even that requirement was eventually removed.
Personally I don't mind having to go through the license tests all over again - good drivers who think the licenses are silly should breeze right through them in no time. In GT5 I repeated all 60 tests several times, especially when I started driving with ABS off which made them even more challenging (and much more fun than repeating all of A-Spec with ABS off, which seemed like a good idea but wasn't). I have to admit though the more they have messed up the AI and the tire physics the less I've bothered to replay them. But I still look forward to doing them in GT6.
- 7,529
- Exorcet
- OE Exorcet
No, they should just skip them. And being good doesn't even matter. If bad drivers don't want to do them, they shouldn't either.
No matter who you are, they are a waste of time if you don't want to do them. Their being easy doesn't change anything. Why not have a 168 hour endurance race before you're allowed to buy LMP's? A good driver should be able to win so it shouldn't be a problem right?
I've never done them, it was fun.
Exactly, keep them optional.
- 40,425
It's more like "waste hours getting through them even though it may very well be their seventh time doing the exact same tests just so they can play the rest of the game."
Making them nothing more than bragging rights rewards as they were in GT5 was one of the things GT5 did that was a direct improvement over previous games. They just screwed up and made the progression system from there horrible.
- 48,893
- Australia
Awesome discussion to all. Thanks for your replies. We all know PD tried to make the license tests optional as they initially made it so you had to level up before you could access high output machines. I'm still trying to get my head around PD opening the door to online races that could easily get you to level 10 in a Kei car if you just bought the game. Thus, this eliminates anyone who may have had an interest to do the license test( as others have stated, its optional as a "challenge"). The root of GT is to "teach" the basics of driving for better driver enjoyment and awareness.
I'm thinking PD are giving GT players the benefit of getting to the track and learning how to drive through spending time learning to drive on each circuit.
I'm thinking PD are giving GT players the benefit of getting to the track and learning how to drive through spending time learning to drive on each circuit.
- 8,698
Well, it shouldn't be compulsory, but there are lots of different corners about the place, so driving just one wouldn't really give much of an education. Chassis / drivetrain layouts make enough difference to warrant the repeat, as does the inclusion of downforce and slick tyres, or even setup changes. It should really be an introduction to all the things we already know, but absolute beginners won't, basically.
Maybe each track could have a "corner attack" and "sector attack" (sounds Japanese to me) mode, or at least a "learn this track" option - a bit like the AMG special event, but more finely separated. I can see the latter being useful not just to beginners.
Perhaps the entirety of the driving school stuff need only grant a mere seal of approval, or something, and the real licences (as in they actually grant you licence to do something tangible in the game) are left for your Academy-style progression in some kind of proper career mode.
- 138
- Philadelphia
- Patanime237
Considering the "license" element of them is rendered virtually useless by the level system, I'd say you dump that, but I like the idea of having a series of optional mini challenges.
