Help a Professional Wanna-Be

[LinPark]

Hi all, looks like I'm the new kid on the block. Had my PS3 for about 6 months now and picked up GT5 just after it came out. With my limited free time I was just able to clear Class A last night and had to turn here for help on several of the races (especially the "catch them all in 1 lap" challenges).

I've been spending most of my time on the High Speed Ring in forward setup. I have a fairly nice gaming environment with a Logitech G25 wheel and was hoping someone could give me advice on the S-Turn in that track. I'm looking for how a really good driver would attack it. I know this will probably differ from driver to driver and depend on car setup also. But in general, what type of wheel and pedal action should be used for turns of that type to achieve the best lap times?

My current settings are Manual/Mild/Standard with everything else off and no tuning while playing a basic Arcade Time Trial.

Any advice is appreciated. And one more thing, is it just me or do the online races turn into demolition derbies after midnight sometimes?

Thanks,
Lin

 

[GT_Fanatic]

HI lin

The online is pretty much as crash fest at the best of times, but we have the August update that will improve the online penalty system. A wheel takes a bit of getting used to, so it's just a matter of practice on your behalf. More practice, the better you'll become. best way to learn your wheel skills is on Suzuka, as it's the most complex track we have at the moment. If you can get used to a wheel on that track , then your good to go.

 

[Exaccto]

I practice with the racing line on...that helps a lot IMHO...But in the end, the style to get through there will depend on the car you are driving.

 

[kart racer]

by the way, welcome to GTPLANET

 

[klondike]

Slow in fast out.

Imagine
Driver A He takes the bend so that he comes fast in, but he will hit the apex late. This will mean he will leave the corner at a slower speed than optimum, since he is starting his acceleration out of the corner to late. So every lengt unit he travel on the straight after the corner he is slower compared with ...

Driver B:He hit the Apex aproximately in the midle of the bend. This means he can start accelerating his car in the midle of the corner. He will come on to the straigh at a much higher speed compared with driver A. Now every lenght unit he travels on the straight he is faster than driver A.

So when you look at any track you will see that the majority of the track in lenght units is straights. So when it all adds up driver B will do faster laptimes than Driver A.

For S curves wich are just two curves combined. You should consentrate on the last curve, get the highest posibel exit speed from this curve as you can.

This was the teory part. Now doing it in practise is another story. I am still trying to learn my self

 

[zodicus]

yeah what he said ^^^ in a simple s turn like the one in high speed ring where its just 2 turns the first turn is a sacrificial turn. Hold the inside to set up for the next turn witch is setting you up for the straight. You want the highest turning speed possable but really everything is about the straight aways. If you can come out of that turn on to the straight even 5-10 mph faster than the "other" guy you'll beat him to the next corner( given equal cars ect) Also if you are running with pro physics be smooth smooth smooth.

to things i heard from racers come to mind here "slow in fast out, fast in spin out" and "I'd rather be fast in the fast sections then fast in the slow sections"

 

[Duke]

Driver A He takes the bend so that he comes fast in, but he will hit the apex late. This will mean he will leave the corner at a slower speed than optimum, since he is starting his acceleration out of the corner to late. So every lengt unit he travel on the straight after the corner he is slower compared with ...

Driver B:He hit the Apex aproximately in the midle of the bend. This means he can start accelerating his car in the midle of the corner.

Most of what you wrote is true, but this is part is NOT correct.

Under most conditions you WANT a late-apex line. This allows you to start accelerating well before the apex. "Slow in, fast out" is correct, but the way to do that is to turn more sharply very early in the corner in order to get the rotation completed quickly and allow you accelerate more in a shallower curve throughout the rest of the turn. The best way to do that is to take a late apex, well after the midpoint of the turn. You should have already been accelerating long before you apex.

@ LinPark: The S in High Speed Ring is tricky because it is flat rather than banked like all the other turns are. It's all about setup, and as klondike says above, you want to sacrifice some speed in the first half of the combination in order to maximize your exit speed. Here's how I handle it:

Leave the preceding banked turn all the way over by the right hand side of the near end of the bridge. Take the bridge wide open, moving diagonally from the near side right edge to the far side left edge as you cross.

Just as you get to the place where the bridge tension cables are anchored on your left, squeeze the brakes on and downshift to a middle gear (which gear will vary by car - usually 3rd or sometimes 2nd). Brake mostly in a straight line, and let up on the brakes as you begin to turn in. I stay a little to the left of the dark rubber tracks before I turn in to the right. Aim to just edge the inside curb at the point where it straightens out before the next turn. Going up on the inside edge won't help, so just try to be close.

As you get the car aimed, feed in some power, but only a short burst of full throttle. If this was a single right-hand turn, you'd want to let the car track out to the left, but DON'T for this combination. Just after you apex, squeeze the brakes again, then turn in for the left-hander from the far right-hand side of the track. Again, aim to apex at the left side well after the midpoint of the turn. As soon as you have the car rotated and settled, begin feeding the power in, but CAREFULLY balance it - mostly light throttle until you can see the bridge abutment on the far right side of the upcoming tunnel. Only THEN do you want to go to full throttle and let the car track out all the way to the right. You want to wind up edging the right side of the track - right on the white line - just as you enter the tunnel.

If you don't stay to the right at the exit of the first right turn in the S, you will early apex the following left. You also need to keep your speed controlled between the turns and be gentle coming back onto the power through the second left in the S. Missing any of those conditions will make the car wash out too early in the left sweeper, meaning you'll have to lift throttle (or even brake) in the middle of the left turn in order to avoid the outside rail. This kills your exit speed, and with the tunnel and the following gentle right, you want to carry as much speed as possible out of the S, even if it means going slower early in the first part.

 

[MustangSVT]

Do you mean the S-curve that comes just after that high speed oval? The same one that was part of license test in Gran Turismo 4 in A-license?

If so, what you want to do, is take mid-apex for the first right turn and stay as close to the inside as you can, and then take a late apex for the next left turn.

If all you mean is the long oval curve, then stay on outside for a bit building up speed, then start turning in and take a late apex.

 

[Mad Matt]

The above (from Duke) seems very good advice although you have to be careful online as you often get rammed at the first half of the S as other less prudent drivers brake too late :-)

I'm finding the Fuji S test a challenge as I can catch the other cars but as I pass through them in the series of corners near the end of the lap I invariable get hit by one of them and then get a penalty for it! It's driving me up the wall.

I probably just need to spend more time on it but I'm a bit snowed under with work unfortunately :-(

 

[LinPark]

Thanks Duke for that - really helps. You talk about braking in the S-turn, but is there anything you can do with the clutch to also assist with power/rpm's coming out of the turn to gain a small advantage?

It amazes me during these time trials when the ghost car appears on just how different runs can be. Slight differences in how you handle that S-turn or even how much you drift on the very first big, banked turn can effect your lap time by almost a whole second. Incidentally, can you turn off that ghost car? Gets a little frustrating and makes the entries difficult when he's in the way.

Thanks again!

 

[klondike]

Thanks for the explanation Duke. I am kinda still learning my self

I did think that it was better to keep the stearing wheel at the same angle from the turn in point to the apex. Also the car would maybe be more smoth. But I am no pro. As i say I am still just trying to learn, so maybe I can someday be a competive driver to some of you more expirienced drivers at GTP.

 

[Blitz187]

And if youre adventurous like me.... and like to drive 4wd cars like the Mines GTR... slow down just enough for the first turn and enter at a relative high speed... hit mid-apex and then full throttle it for just a second so you blast through the straight part of the S-curve, turn hard left and 4 wheel drift the curve... If done properly you come out pretty straight and fast on the straightaway... done it a couple times in the old 750PP race that is now gone... and when properly executed is works well... and probably leaves a bewildered look on the drivers face behind me LOL.. but yeah it doesnt always work ... but its hella fun... In the end though its always best taking the curves and keeping as much traction as possible... and be smooth... thats probably some of the best advice you see on here. Anyway, Im not a great driver... but I'm skilled enough to do fun manouvers like this and come out unscathed... anyway thats my 10 cents worth... do with it what you want

 

[Duke]

Thanks Duke for that - really helps. You talk about braking in the S-turn, but is there anything you can do with the clutch to also assist with power/rpm's coming out of the turn to gain a small advantage?

I have a Driving Force Pro wheel, not a G25, so I'm not sure how the clutch operates. But from a real-life standpoint, not there isn't much that clutching itself can do to help you speed up. You need to be smooth with the clutch to avoid upsetting the chassis, but there's no magic trick that will make you faster.

Clutch techniques like "kicking" are mostly used by drifters as means of maintaining or provoking oversteer. If GT5p doesn't rev-match with the g25 wheel (that little blip of throttle on a downshift, which the game automatically does for you with the controllers and the DFP wheel), you might want to learn how to heel-and-toe in order to make your downshifts smoother, but if it does rev-match for you, there's no real need.

On the subject of the ghost, I believe that 'up' on the d-pad will turn it on and off.

Thanks for the explanation Duke. I am kinda still learning my self

I did think that it was better to keep the stearing wheel at the same angle from the turn in point to the apex. Also the car would maybe be more smoth.

You were 95% right with everything you said; just that one little bit was off. Assuming you have the track mostly to yourself, you want to take a kind of dogleg line though most turns. Brake firmly and early, turn in fairly quickly (but still smoothly), and then unwind the steering and squeeze in the throttle before the apex.

Of course, as mentioned above, that ideal line doesn't always work under racing conditions, where you have to defend yourself. Turning in too late can mean someone can sneak by inside. Or, of course, just nail you into the wall.

 

[Blitz187]

@Duke

This is TOTALLY off-topic... but did I just see your avatar wink at me?!?!? LOL

 

[peterjford]

@Duke

This is TOTALLY off-topic... but did I just see your avatar wink at me?!?!? LOL

Yes his avatar winks and I find it really creepy!

Back on topic, the up botton on the D-pad does turn off the ghost unless you changed it in the options. I find that taking the dog-leg approach works better with some cars. Sometimes with mid-engine cars I can get some nasty lift-throttle oversteer if I don't get a majority of my braking/deceleration done before turn-in. Then with a sharp turn in I let the natural understeer while under full throttle (once the car 'sets' so it can take it) take me to the outside on the exit. This may not be the best way, but it works for me. With the S-Turn though I don't want to go to the outside on the exit of the first turn so I keep the acceleration to just before it starts to push to the outside to set up for the second corner.