Help A Racing Noobie

  • Thread starter Thread starter georgiebest
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georgiebest

georgiebest

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Georgiesbest
Hi guys, I've never really been into racing games in a big way before, but I love motorsport so I thought I would get gt5 when it came out. I'm not awful, but I'm not good either.

I was wondering if some experienced racers could give me some tips to improve my lap times, and answer some of my questions.

1. At the moment I'm using the racing line assist to show me the line through the corners. I ignore where it tells me to brake and how fast to go, because it tells me to go way to slow, so I use external reference points for braking and so on. However, is the racing line the game gives you actually able to give you a fast lap time or is it very slow compared to other lines? I'm not talking about cutting corners to be faster.

2. How do you know when you are going through a corner at the right speed? The licences tell you to use as little steering input as possible. But to go through corners quickly, I find I end up having to use more steering input.
Are you going the right speed through the corner when you have the steering cranked as far as it can go, to stay on the racing line, and using the throttle to keep the car at constant speed? Or am I doing it completely wrong.

3. How do you know the ideal turn in point? I know for better times you should turn in late, but I don't know when is the perfect time. Does the racing line in game give you the right turn in point or is that early?
 
1. most people will say turn off the driving line all togeather...and i agree this way you will learn the track properly...and your times will tumbel once u get the hang of it...

2. you no when you are still on the track, if your running wide, your going too fast, if your not getting near the edge of the track...not going fast enough. (if you have a wheel...keep ur hands at 15 to 3...(the middle left and right of the wheel) and you should never have to take ur hands off)

3. i think the turn in point is normaly right on it...havent ran with the driving line on other then the 1st day when i didnt no how to turn it off..and that was months ago. but as u drive a track more u will learn the limits of the track...and once u have that..it will only take a couple of laps to get the limit of each car (normaly)
 
Hmm, but when I try driving without the line, I end up doing a "out-stuck to the inside of the corner the whole way round-out" line. There is no Apex I just end up staying on the rumbles till corner exit where I drift wide lol...

So to clarify, it is ok to have the steering turned as far as it will go during the corner? And if you stay on line with the steering 100% then you are at the right speed and just use throttle to maintain?
 
are you using a pad?...
 
Yeah lol, I haven't got a steering wheel.
 
then thats where my help runs out on that 1 :P ive never used a pad on this lol

all i can say on getting the line right though would be going into arcade (or pratice) and do laps...if your really strugling then i guess have the line on...untill u can kinda learn it..but try turning it off when you can...once u can race with it off you will be much faster, and better at racing, as you should be able to adjust your line ... over taking other cars, and not just rely on the "correct" line constatnly
 
Ok thanks for the help.
I think I'm gonna turn off the racing line and try my best to learn the best lines.

Another question, when you turn into a corner, is it faster to turn the steering as fast as possible to the max, or to gradually increase it to get to the apex? Maybe that's why I keep sticking to the inside of the track too much.
At the moment I brake, trail brake a little, before feathering the throttle and turning the steering to the max until the corner exit where I straighten up and accelerate out.
 
georgiebest
Ok thanks for the help.
I think I'm gonna turn off the racing line and try my best to learn the best lines.

Another question, when you turn into a corner, is it faster to turn the steering as fast as possible to the max, or to gradually increase it to get to the apex? Maybe that's why I keep sticking to the inside of the track too much.
At the moment I brake, trail brake a little, before feathering the throttle and turning the steering to the max until the corner exit where I straighten up and accelerate out.
Click to expand...

The Engineers answer applies here: "It depends".

What kind of corner are you talking about? For wide sweepers, you should use minimal adjustments. For hairpins or decreasing radius turns, you should have it at full lock, or turned as far as it'll go. The general rule of thumb is: Fast corners- slow hands. Slow corners- fast hands. What this means is for fast corners, make small minimal adjustments. For slow corners, you may have to snap the wheel left and right at lightspeed just to get a fast exit.

Your best friend for improving your technique is Time Trials, and online racing. If you're gonna race online, find decent people that are miles ahead of you, and gradually learn to keep up. What are they doing differently? What are their strengths and weaknesses. Following should tell you all you need to know.

To answer most of your technique questions, I highly, HIGHLY recomend visiting drivingfast.net. The articles there should point you in the right direction for 9/10 of your questions. Check it out.

Also, don't let using a DS3 or 6Axis get to you. I've used a pad since GT1, and probably will on GT6 too. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to use a wheel, but it's also hard for me to justify the price when I've got other priorities that deserve more attention first. My advice? Do what I do and ask for one each Xmas and birthday. Hopefully, you'll get yours before I get mine.
 
And the GT5 has Controller Sensitivity, so your DS3 can turn cars as good as a wheel. Except in the Vettel Challenge....... :(
 
DuckBrazil
And the GT5 has Controller Sensitivity, so your DS3 can turn cars as good as a wheel. Except in the Vettel Challenge....... :(
Click to expand...

Even Vettel couldn't do the Vettel challenge... so there's that....
 
The driving line is pretty much the same as the other cars follow. They drive much slower than us, so turn the line off.
 
To the OP:

in my personal experience, practice practice practice

I started out last Christmas, using my DS3 controller, all aids on.

Basically, just ran a demolition derby.

Today, I run ABS1, cockpit view, NO display.

Like real life driving.

And I'm having more fun, and more of a challenge.


just my experience
 
Only advice I can offer that made me a better driver in this game is, "Don't break while turning"
 
doing the licences will teach you all you need to know. if your steering at max and running the correct line you are prob driving it as fast as you can. turn the line off. you will get to know the track a lot better that way and get so you dont even need the map. driving with cockpit view i would say is only for when you know the track and car
 
You have best control with gradual inputs to the steering, throttle and brakes. Any quick changes can upset the car. What is quick depends on the car though. A stiffly sprung race car can handle quicker transitions than a street car.

There is a term used in training called the circle of grip. You have 4 tires and as you accelerate the weight of the car transfers from an equally balanced position (if weight is 50F/50R) to the rear as throttle is applied. With enough grip at the rear the front end could lift off the ground (like funny cars, dragsters). As you brake the weight transfers to the front.

When you turn the wheel the weight transfers to the left and right. So the grip of the tires is moving about the 4 corners of the car depending on where the weight is transferred to.

For best acceleration you want the wheel straight so the tires have no lateral grip requirements. No shared grip ;) For best braking you want the same balance, straight ahead.

For best cornering you want the throttle neutral with no braking, just maintain your speed so the grip of the tires is doing one thing - lateral grip.

You need to learn the track so you know the braking points, turn entry points and turn exit points. Once you learn this at a slow speed you can begin picking up the pace, braking later and getting on the throttle earlier. Even some trail braking going in and drifting out in time.

So start with slow in for faster outs.

Learn the tracks. Look ahead in the turns and try to see your exit point. If you can start your turn, hold steady throttle and wheel and come out at the edge of the track, you're doing great.

Oh, and listen to the squeel of the tires. A little bit is good, too much and you're scrubbing off speed in corners, losing braking effectiveness or not accelerating quite as fast as you could be.

Most of all, have fun!
 
My 2 cents. You're right to start with the line. Helps you get acclimated. Normally it's a good line through the course, however not all aspects are accurate. Good place to notice it is at Fuji. The braking points are definitely slower, too early. So is the acceleration pts. As far as turning while steering; each car is different. The Lexus IS-F RC won't be upset nearly as much as the Jag XJ13 RC, for example. The XJ13 HAS to have a stable break with zero steering input. The Lexus on the other hand has great control even on Nurburgring.

But as soon as you get acclimated to the courses; turn it off! I've got a day/night race at Nurb coming up. Debating weather to use it cause when I do I pay way too much attention to it. However, driving Nurb at night I haven't done much (6 laps). Probably going to use it.
 
georgiebest
Hi guys, I've never really been into racing games in a big way before, but I love motorsport so I thought I would get gt5 when it came out. I'm not awful, but I'm not good either.

I was wondering if some experienced racers could give me some tips to improve my lap times, and answer some of my questions.

1. At the moment I'm using the racing line assist to show me the line through the corners. I ignore where it tells me to brake and how fast to go, because it tells me to go way to slow, so I use external reference points for braking and so on. However, is the racing line the game gives you actually able to give you a fast lap time or is it very slow compared to other lines? I'm not talking about cutting corners to be faster.

2. How do you know when you are going through a corner at the right speed? The licences tell you to use as little steering input as possible. But to go through corners quickly, I find I end up having to use more steering input.
Are you going the right speed through the corner when you have the steering cranked as far as it can go, to stay on the racing line, and using the throttle to keep the car at constant speed? Or am I doing it completely wrong.

3. How do you know the ideal turn in point? I know for better times you should turn in late, but I don't know when is the perfect time. Does the racing line in game give you the right turn in point or is that early?
Click to expand...

1. Don't use the driving line, it always tells you to brake too early, i would reccomend you trying a car out on the HSR and getting a feel for the grip and the brakes and finding out how late you can brake and how much speed you can carry through the corner.

2. If you turn the steering wheel further and you don't turn tighter, that is the limit of your grip, try to find the limit and stay on it, if you go past it in a FF car, you will understeer, in a FR car you will oversteer, in a 4WD car, you will usually get understeer, but sometimes oversteer. Tsukuba is a good track to practice grip limitations.

3. The ideal turn in point is (for me) a bit before the apex of the turn dessapears from your central vision. You must think about the corner beforehand and try to find the smoothest route through it, with the least amount of speed lost. GT4 traning manual says that you need to draw a line around the track backwards and go as far into a corner as possible before turning to find the best line and turn in point. Good Luck
 
Start slow. Use slower more stable cars to learn the track. The aim is to be smooth at all times with accelerator, brakes and steering. Professionals walk the tracks they are going to have races on before they attempt driving on it. Don't try to be fast straight away. Just take it easy and look for landmarks and track characteristics.

Don't use the driving line as your eyes should be looking up ahead where you are going, while the line tends to draw your eyes down closer to where you are. The secret of going smooth and fast is to predict, not to react. This is also why it's better to start slow as it gives you more time to think ahead and take in what is happening around you. And as stated before: Have fun! Analysing your driving and trying to improve yourself can be as fun as the driving itself. :)
 
1.) Yes, turn the racing line off. It helps to learn tracks initially, but I find it a distraction now, honestly, and I seldom actually follow that line. In fact, switching to a different car might change the line I take, depending on the track.

2.) Get a wheel. The DFGT is fantastic for the money - you can feel what the front tires are doing, and can feel when the back is close to stepping out (before it actually steps out, and costs you time) - there is a limit to how far you can turn the front wheels before you actually start getting LESS grip - with a force feedback wheel, you can feel where this point is. I made my cockpit for about $30 out of PVC, and a video rocker chair. If you can't do this, you only want to steer enough to make the corner - overdriving, or driving too fast, is worse than going slower - clean laps are fast laps; braking too late for a corner will typically result you getting on the throttle later, and having to turn those front wheels too much, losing grip, losing speed, losing momentum - all of these are costing you time.

3.) Ideal turn in is easy - you always want to look into the corner. Cockpit view isn't always the easiest to do this in - depending on the track or car, I may even use the roof camera, as this can be easier to "see into" the corner. Once you get this down without thinking, you'll be faster.


Some tips that you didn't ask about - for car control, practice on a car you like with at most sport hard tires - if you can get a smooth lap down on those, you can FLY on slicks.

A lot of what you said made me think that you're braking far to late - try driving a LOT slower, brake WAY early, and increasing the pace slowly. This will enable you to find the correct line without being at the limit, and as you increase your speed, it should feel much more natural. I would imagine you can gain a few seconds with this technique alone.

As I mentioned, a wheel is critical to going faster, and in my opinion, the full enjoyment of the game. They spent a lot of time on the physics and feedback - a wheel is just a better extension of the game than the DS3, more immersive, and more accurate. (If you have one, ignore all of this, you already know :))
 
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