Help! Need understanding how 1000+ HP isnt good on curcy race tracks. plz help

McLaren'sAngel

McLaren'sAngel

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hiya! :D :O :lol:

I just dont understand this...If you get a Ferrari Enzo and somehow give it about 1200 HP, would it be able to beat a a Enzo with Stock HP on a curvy track such as that Nuring track thingy.? :confused: (dont know how to spell the name of the legendary track) I was talking with some friends yesterday as we were wondering if cars over 1000 HP can actually out perform cars with around 500-700 HP. Say if I put a 600 HP RX-7 against a 1200HP RX-7 on a track with lots of curve, who will win assuming both of the driver are equal in skills or very close? :confused:

We also thought about things to get away with such high amount of HP. If its too fast coming into a curve, why not brake from earlier and hope that 600 HP RX-7 doesnt catch up on the curve. Possible solution? Yea so we though about just breaking earlier and out accelerating the competition out of the curve and on straight aways. Just dont press on the gas too much and only use it on some straight aways to get away from the opponent. Is this possible at all? Viper with 600 HP vs Viper with 1200 HP on a curvy track and who going to win? Is it ever possible such a high powered car with 1000+ HP can even beat the track time of those legendary cars such as McLaren F1 and tuned up 600-700 Skylines? Plz help! :D :O :lol: :eek:
 
There isn't a simple way to explain this, thers an awful lot that would depend on which car would win. First off, more power isn't always best but it cn be better, it all depends on the car it's in.
To make high Bhp work in a car you need to make sure all the components can cope, it's no good putting 1200Hp into an RX-7 if you don't give it suspension and brakes ect that will keep the car in control with that power. If you have 2 cars that are the same, then give one four turbo's and the other 1 and the two cars en up with 1000Bhp and 500Bhp respectively, if the rest of the car can only handle 600Bhp, then usually the 500Bhp car would win on the track, but it depends on soo much else that I don't have time to go through right now. I could be a little wrong in som bits though.
 
There is a VERY simple way to explain it. Cue Graham Hill:

"Go in slow, come out fast. Go in fast, come out dead."
 
Originally posted by Famine
There is a VERY simple way to explain it. Cue Graham Hill:

"Go in slow, come out fast. Go in fast, come out dead."
Click to expand...
:lol: .Yeah if the track has alot of curves the 1200 BHP enzo might lose because it would be hard to control.
Nuring = Nurburgring Nordschleife?
 
1200HP = one really heavy car. If you do the simple calculations in your mind, I think that hauling an extra few hundred pounds through turns could really impair your results. I've got a vid of an Elise keeping up with a Z06 on Nordschleife, but once the straight comes, the Vette is goooone.
 
yea....the highhorsepower car will kill the other on the straight but will have to take that extra amount of care through the corners. If enough skill is backing up the horsepower, i believe the highpowered one can take the race with a couple seconds to spare.
 
Lady McLaren, you like coming into my threads, so now I'll return the favor.

Anyhow, I can kind of tell you like this. The more horsepower you add to a car, the more the car has to be set up to take advantage. There is no one-size-fits-all approach to this. Cars with too much power sacrifice handling, especially on twisty tracks. Mega horsepower was meant for... the drag strip. This is because you need every amount of HP you can get to blow the doors off the driver in the other lane. Even then, you'll need to set the car up effectively to take advantage of it all. Now I'm talking about modifying cars of today, not so much cars like the BMW M1 and Porsche 917 which both packed allegedly well over 1,000 hp. Thing is, they can still perform in their day.

So a "motto" I follow when it comes to horsepower is:

"Power is nothing without control." -Pirelli Tires
 
hiya! :D :O :lol:

Thank you all for replying to my post. I appreciate it!! everyone responses help my understand why supercars such as Ferrari, Porsche and Lamborghini don't pack 4 digit horsepower numbers when they are meant for the track. Also, it helps me understand about racing in F1, NASCAR, NHRA about why they put this or that much horsepower. Thnxie all! :lol: :lol: :O
 
Our pleasure, Your McLaren (that is, Your Highness).

Mission accomplished. Riding off. (starts Toyota GT-One Road Car and zooms away)
 
Cars do not singlehandedly depend on horsepower to win an autocross circuit. A 1000 horsepower car could be crushed by a car with half of its power. Many factors affect how a car will race. Weight makes a big difference as well as the drivetrain. 4WD is always preferable. Probably the most important thing in autocross is suspension, not power. If you can't handle a car with a lot of power around a hairpin, a lighter BMW M3 with the right suspension settings will blow right past it.

More horsepower does not always equal faster lap time.
 
Originally posted by 360rider
the highhorsepower car will kill the other on the straight but will have to take that extra amount of care through the corners.
Click to expand...

In drifting the Ae86 is very popular because of what you said, you can floor it all the way through the corners as opposed to having to worry about more controling
 
Originally posted by JohnBM01
Our pleasure, Your McLaren (that is, Your Highness).

Mission accomplished. Riding off. (starts Toyota GT-One Road Car and zooms away)
Click to expand...
:lol: Where did you get a Toyota GT-One Road Car?:odd:
 
Here's my opinion: Let's take those example cars 600bhp RX-7 and 1200bhp RX-7. Lower bhp RX-7 can hit the pedal to the metal ages before 1,2k bhp can do it. If 1,2k bhp car hits the pedal to the metal at same way, it will sure get out of control. So let's think that you won't push the pedal so hard. These example cars would be turbocharged for sure, right? If 1,2k bhp car wouln't hit the pedal so hard boost wouldn't rise at all and it would give lesser bhp than that 600bhp RX-7. These cars would have quite big turbos if there weren't even twin ones. 1,2k bhp car: Huge power -> big turbos (or twins) -> need a lot of gas/time to get revving. 600bhp car: "Little" amount of power -> littler turbos -> need much lesser time to get revving. Also you have to concentrate much more to how much can you push the pedal. I hope you got it what I meant.

Because this is GTplanets board I suggest you to play GT3. Compare times in Monaco with 500-600 bhp Supra and 1100bhp Supra. If you didn't get what I meant in the text, this way you get it for sure.
 
Its a simple matter of traction, people. If you can put down the power cleanly then, yes, having 1200 hp will make you much faster than a 600 hp car.

Three things are critical for this: tires, suspension design and aero package. If the car doesn't have the mechanical or aerodynamic grip to cope with 2x the horsepower it was designed with, then it will become impossible to drive.

In the crazy turbo days, F1 cars used to make almost 1500 hp in qualifying trim, but they were still driveable (though barely). Tires, suspension and aero made it happen, not to mention the best drivers in the world.


M
 
You know something I just thought of? Tell me what I am thinking about... a light car, heavy horsepower, impressive acceleration and handling... right! Formula One! To me, an exercise in power is that a car has to be properly engineered to actually take advantage of the heavy horsepower these motors possess. Many people think of Formula One as the world's most premier racing cars, but these 800-something HP beasts that ride like much powerful go-karts (not to offend Kart Racer) have cornering abilities that can far exceed any car available on the road. So to me, I have no problem with high horsepower. Thing is, you have to actually set the car up so that it can take full advantage of it. I know I usually consider American cars as beasts of horsepower, but I thought of the A-Sedan class when I seen the Valvoline Runoffs. I've heard of Trans-Ams, Corvettes, Camaros, and Mustangs race the Runoffs, and each of those cars are powerful with some considerable handling measures.

McLaren'sAngel, if I recall correctly, the Camaro mostly has a road racing setup, so it seems more perfect to run one on a road course. Around your way is probably Laguna Seca or Willow Springs. To me, high horsepower is usually for high-speed places. But if you want to have a lot of power for a road course, you'll need to set the car up. Because after all, it's not about horsepower... it's about execution and making the most of it.

Only thing is... how do you explain the Cadillac Sixteen?
 
http://www.new-cars.com/concept/2003/cadillac-sixteen-concept.html
Specs below are from the above site

2003 Cadillac Sixteen Concept - Specs

Body / Chassis spaceframe
Body material aluminum
Chassis aluminum / steel
Suspension Front Sigma-based high arm SLA
Rear semi-trailing arm, 4-wheel steer
Wheels 24" x 9" aluminum
Tire size Front Michelin custom tread P265/40R24
Rear Michelin custom tread P265/40R24
Brakes Baer 6-piston, 16" rotors

Powertrain
Engine GM 16-cylinder, 90-degree
Engine displacement (cu. in/cc) 830 / 13600
Horsepower maximum (hp / kw) 1000 / 745
Torque maximum (lbs-ft / Nm) 1000 / 1355
Transmission modified Hydra-Matic 4L85-E

Dimensions
Height (in / mm) 54.8 / 1392
Length (in / mm) 223.3 / 5673
Width (in / mm) 79.9 / 2029
Wheelbase (in / mm) 140 / 3556

Track
(in. / mm) Front 69.5 / 1766
Rear 69.5 / 1766
Weight (lbs / kg) 5000 / 2270 (estimated)

I think the reason is that this car is actually quite light compared to what it has in the engine, its got a crazy powerplant under the hood. This ride could tow 5 double axle trucks and still overtake a veyron.
:lol:
 

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