Hello everyone and thanx for contributing, my system was down so heres my first chance to respond.
I thought diesel was for tractors
i disagree, as that thinking is for old diesels and not the new bread. We have already seen racing success from the proven Audi R10 and Peugeot 908
The Seat WTCC team has run a TDI for 2 years now with good success. And the BMW 320 squad is pushing for diesels as well.
http://www.touringcartimes.com/news.php?id=2305
Last on the side of road cars, the best achievement has to be the Audi R8 TDI Le Mans, even though it is only a concept.
The engine is a six litre V12 turbodiesel that produces 500 PS of power, and 1000 Nm of torque. To add, the car has a 5000 rpm redline but with more development, that number could go up to 6000 rpm.
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FirstDrives/articleId=125197
Yeah
How about that 90hp 1.9-liter TDI from the Jetta?
is that a joke or do you have a Jetta with a Diesel?
Mmmm.. The sound of that flat 6 revving to 4200 rpm... Sweet !...
I hope the sound is close to this......
http://www.peugeot.com/en/sport/motorsport.aspx
There aren't any diesels that'll fit. Subaru is just starting to make flat four diesels... a flat six? Maybe never?
The best you can do with a current-generation CRDi is about 5000 rpm... any higher and it's in danger of blowing to kingdom come. The best fit for a Porsche would be a 3 liter flat-six diesel, because it'd weigh around the same or just a little more than Porsche's current 3.8. But at best, such a plant would be making only 270-290 bhp... not quite 911 power. Bump it to over 300 bhp and it'd be laggy, peaky and would make power over a very small rev range. Would be interesting to drive, but nowhere near as much fun as a gasoline engine... not yet.
Not Yet is right, all the things you wrote apply to what we have seen from diesels so far, im looking at it from this perspective. My friend has a Cummins in his Dodge, he straped a bully dog computer to it and now this 3 ton truck can accelerate faster than a 350z. So computers and advanced fuel systems will help but even more so is advanced turbo tech and direct injection. Porsche has the capability to do this, with variable vain turbos now on the GT2, it shows how much potential there is left with internal combustion. I think it just has to be tried at the 911 level for us to really look at it as we do.
The only thing i see right now, it has to be a boxer turbo but thats about it.
Are there any Cayenne diesels? (just checking to see if Porsche even make diesel engines)..
This 911 could be something to compete with the R8 TDI!
if it fits in the rear of that why not a 911.
Ive never been a fan of diesel despite what people say... yes it gets you further but there something magical about Petrol!
Robin
Cayenne - no diesels but they should consider putting the Toureg's 5.0L TDI V10.
Here's why....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05zRyoBbcfI
The R8 TDI is a HUGE V12 and the rear bulkhead of the R8 was moved forward to fit the powerplant. It is trully impossible to fit that setup. Again it's a 911 which means Rear engine + boxer setup.
I don't think a heavy torquey engine would do the handing of RR porsches any favours to be honest. BMW have shown you can make a sporty car with a diesel engine, but a sports car... Hmmm..
I guess we have to wait and see, i have never seen a RR setup + diesel but all the racecars that have them seem to have no issues. Im not in a position to really tell you if that's accurate, some one has to try it.
But some of the diesel bashing is just a little neanderthal.
True!
I reckon with turbocharging that a powerful flat 6 diesel wouldn't be out of the question. It could be made compact too. If BMW can get 100bhp/litre out of their 123 diesel (2 litres, twin turbo) then a 3.5 flat 6 twin turbo diesel could reasonably produce 350bhp and an enormous wallop of torque (and lets be honest, on the road torque is much more important than power - can you imagine how much shove you'd get on the autobahn in a diesel 911?)
I know that as capacity increases the efficiency increases at a lower rate (so a smaller engine is more likely to develop higher bhp/l) but Porsche have the technology (especially being part owner of VW) to make an efficient and powerful large diesel.
It's also not unusual for Porsche to have shared technology with Subaru so I'm sure Subaru could share their experience with their new boxer diesel should Porsche decide to put diesels in their mainstream sports cars.
On the higher-revving note, Honda is known to be developing a 'Type R' diesel engine that has the potential to rev to 7000, as they've said they'll never make a sports diesel unless they can give it the Honda USP of being high revving and exciting. The Mercedes Bluetec diesels work on a similar level, being much smoother and able to produce power like a petrol and torque like a diesel. So a high revving diesel wouldn't be out of the question either.
Also, with a boxer engine it's naturally balanced, so has lower internal inertia and could be made to rev faster.
Everything is right, engines made from now on will have to be as effecient as possible and the Audi diesel conection would help there, + Subaru bought boxer tech from Porsche so i dont see why a mutual agreement on this matter cant be made today, if anything this would help both companies in development. And to go into the circle once more, Subaru is owned by Toyota and Toyota and Porsche were working on a hybrid in the Panamerica so this should not be an issue with the bosses.
Lets keep the diesels for something more suitable please. The last thing a rear engined car needs is a heavier engine hanging back there. The only Porsche i can see with a diesel in it's line-up is the Cayenne, but why bother? VW already has a V6 and V10 diesel in their version of the Cayenne.
Yes Audi are putting a diesel in their flagship sports model R8 but then again they have a LMP1 diesel racer and shift a huge proportion of their other models with diesel engines, so it makes sense for them.
Bit ignorant statement because the job of an engineer is to make what we already have better and more efficient so effecivaly a Porsche engineer would have to find a way to make a diesel TT Boxer 6 be at a perfect balance with the 911 chassis or Porsche will not make or sell the car. Again, your bringing old school thinking into the modern age, that wont help anyone as auto manufactuers on all fronts have to make better engines.
and men who can't afford a real Porsche
The Cayenne is only second in price to the 911 range and if you can afford a Cayenne, you are fairly wealthy.
All parts of the Cayenne are assembled in germany so its not a BMW X5 situation.
+ it is the only SUV that can be had with a 6 speed manual (real clutch).
I'll just say i dont look at the Cayenne as a luxery SUV, i look at it more with vehicles like the Land Rover Defender and the Camel Trophy LR Discovery that are taken everywhere in the world.
Porsche has now started with the Siberia Challange Cayenne
But thats getting off topic, back to diesels in 911s please.
