Here's what I want to do.

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1X83Z

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This is all true. And maybe if I knew a damn thing about cars, I'd do it.

Minivans have always impressed me with their utility - an AWD minivan with lots of stuff on it is just as good as practically any SUV on the market when money isn't an object. Minivans have always had an image problem, though that doesn't phase me - the reason why I've never owned a minivan is because they're slow.

So I want to do this.

Get a minivan, a Dodge Grand Caravan with all-wheel drive.

And a 2002 Audi S6 Avant (the first year of the S6; the only S6 the US got was an Avant).

Then take the engine from the S6 and put it in the Grand Caravan.

With a lot of money I think it'd work - and it'd solve every problem with minivans. That engine's got 340bhp - it'd take the Grand Caravan to sixty in under 6.5.

Why wouldn't it work?
 
Renault, and Sir Frank Williams, beat you to it. By 11 years.

They bunged a Renault 3.5 litre V10 Formula 1 engine into a Renault Espace. At "800"hp it covered 0-60mph in 3 seconds and topped at 194mph.

They did do a version with more than just the driver's seat too. Not particularly practical, I'll grant you. And I dread to think of the insurance premiums.
 
I know about it, and I know about the one on the web everyone always links to with an early-80s Caravan Turbo with some modifications that does the quarter mile in some incredible time.

But the Espace F1 is excess, it's pointless, and more importantly it'd be impossible to make or purchase. Plus, the point of it was racing or to provoke reactions or something - it didn't have AWD or any sort of practicality. And I don't think that early-80s Caravan would be a match for the Caravan Quattro. The more I consider this idea the better it sounds...
 
Sage
Because you hate your mechanic. Or he hates you. Whatever (I should start saving my AIM logs).

So my mechanic says to me, "you need a new automatic transmission."

That joke?

No, it ends with us mutually hating each other - me hating him for claiming I need a new automatic transmission, and him hating me for punching him in the face.

Anyway - the cost would be enormous - you'd need a Grand Caravan and an S6 Avant, not to mention the labor cost, which would probably equal that of one of the vehicles. But the engine's compact enough - if they fit it in the A4's engine bay to make the S4 V8, they could fit it in the Grand Caravan's - the A4's surprisingly small in there. It's possible, right?
 
"This is all true. And maybe if I knew a damn thing about cars, I'd do it."


Joking right? maybe you dont have the skills do do somthing like that, but you do know a lot about cars..right?
I've been spaced out all night for some reason, and i dont remeber doing any drugs...but if i did i dont think i would remeber anyway :sick:

Wheni went to the NYC auto show there was a minivan what had side gull wing doors, there were huge, probably even larger then the ones that slide open sideways...I cant remeber if it was a concept model dodge caravan though, it might have been..
 
M5Power
Anyway - the cost would be enormous - you'd need a Grand Caravan and an S6 Avant, not to mention the labor cost, which would probably equal that of one of the vehicles. But the engine's compact enough - if they fit it in the A4's engine bay to make the S4 V8, they could fit it in the Grand Caravan's - the A4's surprisingly small in there. It's possible, right?
If we're only talking 340 hp, I would say that a little tweaking could easily get the AWD Sport Caravan's 3.8l V6 up to par. Since it's a V, turbocharging might get complicated, but I bet there's room in there for a blower run off the big belt. And the engine management would be far easier by sticking with the original Chrysler mill - modern electronics have killed hotrodding in many ways.

Truthfully, if you're looking for fun and cargo space, the Volkswagen Vanagon takes quite handily to turbo Porsche power, as does the original Microbus. The Eurovans are FWD so that rains on that parade. I knew a guy who specialized in '70s and '80s 911s. His parts chaser was a 1974 Microbus with 911 turbo drivetrain and suspension parts.

Let me tell you from personal experience (even though I was only riding shotgun), nothing in the world is so richly satisfying as flashing your highbeams from a hundred yards back as you fly up behind a BMW in the left lane... and seeing the expression his face as he yields to a Microbus!
 
DJM PRODUCTIONS
Joking right? maybe you dont have the skills do do somthing like that, but you do know a lot about cars..right?
I've been spaced out all night for some reason, and i dont remeber doing any drugs...but if i did i dont think i would remeber anyway :sick:

I like to think that I know quite a bit about cars, but I know next to nothing about how they work - I don't even change my own oil.

If we're only talking 340 hp, I would say that a little tweaking could easily get the AWD Sport Caravan's 3.8l V6 up to par. Since it's a V, turbocharging might get complicated, but I bet there's room in there for a blower run off the big belt. And the engine management would be far easier by sticking with the original Chrysler mill - modern electronics have killed hotrodding in many ways.

So a supercharger is the way to go? What sort of supercharger is going to produce 125bhp? That probably won't pass state emissions in New York, and if it were a custom job (which it'd probably have to be since that engine's only around in the minivans) it might not pass inspection anywhere. The thing I like about the Audi engine is that it's huge, new, somewhat available (to me at least) and not turbocharged or supercharged ("there's no replacement for forced induction" doesn't rhyme, anyway).

Anyway, I'm not seriously considering this, but if it were do-able I'd give it a decent look.

Let me tell you from personal experience (even though I was only riding shotgun), nothing in the world is so richly satisfying as flashing your highbeams from a hundred yards back as you fly up behind a BMW in the left lane... and seeing the expression his face as he yields to a Microbus!

:lol:

Yeah, AWD is necessary, and as much as I hate to say it, it'd to have somewhat nicer status than a freaking Vanagon.
 
I've never driven a Caravan, can they handle at all? Even if you did get the motor in it seems like you'd still have a lot of work to do to get the thing to stop and turn decently.
 
retsmah
I've never driven a Caravan, can they handle at all? Even if you did get the motor in it seems like you'd still have a lot of work to do to get the thing to stop and turn decently.

No - but the problem with the Caravan is, more than anything, its engine. I drove a '96 Grand Caravan with the 3.3L V6 a few months ago. Now the disclaimer here is that that was the first year of the new style and the smallest of the two V6s - but I've never been in a six-cylinder vehicle with so little power. With minor modifications, the vehicle would handle acceptably - not like the vehicle the motor comes from, but not badly, and certainly just fine for the driving I do, which mainly requires quickness.
 
Id say go with the microbus!!! look, I HAVE a Grand Voyager wit the punny V6, and if you just want to get 340hp, I think a blower would be a good idea, as turboing would be troublesome. now, if you just HAVE to swap engines, how about a small block? yeah, it would need a thorough reengineering, but you would need it anyway, and the cost of the RS6's engine would be too much, with a small block you'd have that sume cut by half or even more, have gobs of torque and the 340 hp you want. BUT! I still like the Microbus more (: those things are sweet, and you can get a porsche turbo engine in that huge engine bay... imagine a red and black 23 window Transporter with BRM wheels and turbo porsche engine... YUM! no AWD, but what the hell.

Cano

mmmhh... microbussssss
 
I want to take the engine from the minivan and place it in the Audi. Or did Volkwagen already do that?

Am I the only one who absolutely hates minivans? I don't know if it is the people who drive them or the cars themselves, but gah! GAH, I SAY!!!
 
a minivan isnt the ideal car, I agree, but there is something that really atracts me to what Doug is planning, something sinister and the sheer fun of kickin' everyone's ass in a freaking Caravan. I'd absolutely jump on it, it would be an incredible sleeper. and of course, it HAS to have fake wood panels
 
M5Power
So my mechanic says to me, "you need a new automatic transmission."

That joke?

No, it ends with us mutually hating each other - me hating him for claiming I need a new automatic transmission, and him hating me for punching him in the face.

That really happened?

Wow.
 
I think that you would run into so many problems trying to put an engine made by Audi in a vehicle made by Dodge. Wireing and mating the engine to the transmission would be the major hurdles that would cost an absolute fortune in time and money.

Probably the easiest thing, and less costly, than trying to make an Audi engine work in there is a putting in a turbo or a super charger.
Pontiac already makes a supercharger for their 3.8L V6 that resides in their 2003-4 Grand Prix. There are turbo kit's available for the Honda Accord;s V6 as well.

I'd be willing to bet that you could turbo/supercharge the Caravan easily and get the performance that you are looking for.

But the next question would be could the Caravans engine internals and driveline handle the extra power. If you're looking to get into the 300+ HP range, you will more than likely be pushing the limits of the stock tranny and engine internals.

I bet you could turbo/supercharge that engine and be all said and done with about a $20K investment.

What about putting in the new Hemi engine in there? I know how much you love that engine. ;)
 
Klostrophobic
I want to take the engine from the minivan and place it in the Audi. Or did Volkwagen already do that?

When I told this plan to my friend, another car-lover who drives a huge Mercedes, he immediately asked what I'd do with the body of the S6. I told him I'd put the 3.8 from the Grand Caravan in it and have the opposite of a sleeper. He goes, "yeah - they call those 'wakers.'" I thought it was funny as piss.

and the cost of the RS6's engine would be too much, with a small block you'd have that sume cut by half or even more, have gobs of torque and the 340 hp you want. BUT! I still like the Microbus more (: those things are sweet, and you can get a porsche turbo engine in that huge engine bay... imagine a red and black 23 window Transporter with BRM wheels and turbo porsche engine... YUM! no AWD, but what the hell.

Well, if I did this it would replace my Cayenne, so I'd need not only utility, but an excessive amount of comfor features, like heated leather, a 6-CD player, and a sunroof, plus all-wheel drive though I think I'd have to give up any sort of off-roading and get an old Explorer or anything. I realise I could supercharge the engine, theoretically, but I know it won't pass Tennessee's somewhat strict state inspection. I could register it with my brother in Colorado, but they have an emissions program which would catch such a thing, and New York and my other brother's New Hampshire have adopted California's smog program and would destroy the vehicle on contact. The good thing about the S6's engine is that, if I did get it in there, it'd be a clean engine, legal in all fifty states - though if the cost difference was that great, I'd get around inspection somehow. The cost of the S6's engine isn't too high, either - used 2002 S6 prices will take a fall once the new style comes out later this year, and Audi wagons always depreciate more than sedans. Plus, it's possible I could find a salvage one with an intact engine.

a minivan isnt the ideal car, I agree,

I think, with 340+bhp, a minivan would be perfect - all weather, all purpose.

That really happened?

"So my mechanic says to me, 'you need a new automatic transmission.' And I say to him, 'you need a new face.' So now I need two new things: an automatic transmission... and a mechanic."

No, it didn't happen, it's a joke based on the actual event of being told that, in fact, I needed a new automatic transmission.

Pontiac already makes a supercharger for their 3.8L V6 that resides in their 2003-4 Grand Prix.

I wish GM put that engine into a minivan, but their minivans all use the same 3.4L V6 used in stuff like the Pontiac Grand Am. It's too bad, too, because the GM 3800 lends itself perfectly to supercharging. Clearly.

But the next question would be could the Caravans engine internals and driveline handle the extra power. If you're looking to get into the 300+ HP range, you will more than likely be pushing the limits of the stock tranny and engine internals.

Exactly. And if it breaks, it'd need a new engine or transmission anyway. With the Audi engine, I'd have to replace the transmission and all of the internals from the get-go and hopefully, if done right, at least, it'd run as seamlessly as the car it came from. It'd be a Chrysler in spirit, purely, and an Audi at heart. Sort of the neon_duke dream.

I'm open to suggestions here about the engine; I just can't think of another V8 on the market that produces similar horsepower without a supercharger or a turbocharger except the Hemi, which is probably too large, and large Mercedes V8s, like the one in my CLK55, but I don't know how well it'd mesh with all-wheel drive. I immediately thought of the Audi engine because they got it fit into the new S4, which has a pretty compact engine bay, as I mentioned.
 
M5Power
Exactly. And if it breaks, it'd need a new engine or transmission anyway. With the Audi engine, I'd have to replace the transmission and all of the internals from the get-go and hopefully, if done right, at least, it'd run as seamlessly as the car it came from. It'd be a Chrysler in spirit, purely, and an Audi at heart. Sort of the neon_duke dream.
Where would you pull a stronger driveline from? Certainly not the Audi as NOTHING would fit. It's going to have to be from another Dodge vehicle or custom made.
I'd be willing to bet though that with mild boost, 5-7 psi, the stock tranny and internals in the Caravan would be able to support around 300 HP at the wheels, which would be about 360 crank HP. (20% driveline loss) Definately attainable in a 3.8L displacement engine. Hell, most IS300's with the 3.0L 2JZ-GE engine are making around 300-330 WHP with the same amount of boost and that's on a stock compression ratio of 10 to 1. I doubt the Caravan is running such a high compression ratio so adding low boost would be easy.
Just try to avoid boosting in the higher gears and doing 4 wheel burnouts.

I'm open to suggestions here about the engine; I just can't think of another V8 on the market that produces similar horsepower without a supercharger or a turbocharger except the Hemi, which is probably too large, and large Mercedes V8s, like the one in my CLK55, but I don't know how well it'd mesh with all-wheel drive. I immediately thought of the Audi engine because they got it fit into the new S4, which has a pretty compact engine bay, as I mentioned.
I definately think that you should try to find a suitable engine that is made by Dodge. I just think that getting a foreign made engine to work in a Dodge would be a nightmare at best. NONE of the wirirng would match between an Audi engine and a Dodge.
Just look at all the wiring needed on a swap from the 2JZ-GE to the 2JZ-GTE in the IS3. And 3 ECU's to run the whole thing.
Turboing or supercharging is going to be the easiest way to reach your goal Doug.

You could also drop in the 4 cyl. 2.5L turbo engine that used to be in the Caravan between '89-'90.
http://www.turbovan.net/turbovan.html
 

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boombexus
I definately think that you should try to find a suitable engine that is made by Dodge.

The only engines I can think of that might fit are the 5.9L V8, formerly used in the Dodge Ram, Jeep Grand Cherokee, Dodge Durango, and Dodge Dakota, and the 4.7L V8 from the same vehicles. The latter doesn't quite make the power I want, even in 'high output' form, but the former could work.

Turboing or supercharging is going to be the easiest way to reach your goal Doug.

Maybe, but I don't know if that's going to produce the power that a V8 could.
 
Turboing or supercharging is going to be the easiest way to reach your goal Doug.
M5Power
Maybe, but I don't know if that's going to produce the power that a V8 could.
Simple: just have the work done by a Japanese car fan. It's a well known fact that any 4- or 6-cylinder Japanese engine will make 10 times the power of your stupid V8 with the simple addition of a turbocharger.

You'll have to find a straight 6, though, because everyone knows that V-6s are teh suck.
 
^ :lol:

Boom is absolutely right. If you try to adapt an Audi powertrain to a DCX minivan chassis, you're asking for nothing but trouble. I don't think it is out of the realm of the possible, but it is out of the realm of the sensible. The number or computers and sensors you will need to fool alone are going to make you crazy. Just as an example, the Caravan instrument cluster will not even talk to the Audi ECU --you'd have to use the Audi one, but hey-- it probably won't fit. Then what? Assuming you get around a hundred little problems like that, then you'd have to have someone fabricate, cut and weld you a ton of stuff to mate it up. I bet you two wet sandwiches a ton of stuff isn't going to fit without major alterations to the unit body.

If Felonious Assult is your recourse upon being told you need a new tranny. Murder Two is what is going to happen when he tells you what it would cost to do all this.

Take Duke's emminently sensible advice and slap a blower or turbo on the stock motor. You can find a shop that will build the motor up for you to take the boost. Hmmm.. a Caravan with an SRT style front airdam and an intercooler up front sounds pretty damn cool.

Or you can just buy this 12 second Dodge minivan.

M
 
neon_duke
Simple: just have the work done by a Japanese car fan. It's a well known fact that any 4- or 6-cylinder Japanese engine will make 10 times the power of your stupid V8 with the simple addition of a turbocharger.

You'll have to find a straight 6, though, because everyone knows that V-6s are teh suck.

:lol: hahaha, that is a jewel. It going straight into my signature. It should also go straight into some Zamataki's face, but oh well...
I still think you could adapt, say, a LT1 or LS1 to that thing, hell, even transversely mounted! they have done that in fieros, so a Caravan will swallow those engines. or how about a Grand National Motor? they aint that big, they are V6s and have a huge turbo and stuff, plus a huge atermarket to make it deliver the goods. of COURSE, you'll find a ton of problems, but in any wich way you'll find them either, and will have to have several pieces custom made, so maybe going trough all the fuss would be more rewarding if you put there something that REALLY moves.
 
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