- 11,304
- Marin County
God I love that Peugeot. I might honestly try to get one stateside. I could theoretically register one in Nevada...though it would not be legal in CA without significant added expense. 
HFS's car thread | Fleet update
- Thread starter homeforsummer
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- 27,162
- United Kingdom
Well mine is legal next year and if you twist my arm hard enough maybe you could buy this very oneGod I love that Peugeot. I might honestly try to get one stateside. I could theoretically register one in Nevada...though it would not be legal in CA without significant added expense.
I've mulled the idea of shipping it out to the US to do a road trip (rather than say, buying a car out there to do a trip in) but obviously that's pretty expensive, not least because I'd have to then ship it back again, but then if I didn't have to do that and came back with a bunch of extra money it might make the decision easier I'm fairly sure a large part of me would regret selling it, but then if I did do a trip like that I'm not sure I could top an experience like that in that car anyway, and it'd be fun to see it live on somewhere it was never designed for.
Edit: The only trouble really would be that mine is RHD, and I suspect that makes actual Euro market ones a bit more compelling, but then people go around in RHD JDM stuff now so it's maybe not as unusual as it used to be.
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- 11,304
- Marin County
I can't decide if I like the 205 or 106 better. The 106 has a more tidy design (IMO) but the 205 has more identity. I'd guess that the 106 is built better simply because it's newer and I think the interior is marginally nicer to look at. Looking around to see what's actually available in the US, 205s are surprisingly inexpensive...I don't think they are on anyone's radar here. They weren't part of the Gran Turismo class (I don't think a 205 GTI has ever appeared in a GT title) and Peugeot as a brand is pretty unknown outside of maybe the SF Bay area and parts of New England where they actually sold in decent numbers in the 70s & 80s. But even those were all 504, 505, and 405 Saloon/Sedans/Wagons...never hatchbacks. A EF or EG Chassis Honda Civic is probably as much fun (particular with some form of Vtec engine) better quality, and a whole hell of a lot easier to own in the US...but they feel derivative of European hatches where a 205 or 106 feels like the genuine article...they also have the Honda tuner baggage...How would you compare a R56 Mini or 500 Abarth to your 106? Those seem to be the closest modern vehicles to those old Euro hatches, but I'm not crazy about their nostalgic styling.Well mine is legal next year and if you twist my arm hard enough maybe you could buy this very one
I'm fairly sure a large part of me would regret selling it, but then if I did do a trip like that I'm not sure I could top an experience like that in that car anyway, and it'd be fun to see it live on somewhere it was never designed for.
Edit: The only trouble really would be that mine is RHD, and I suspect that makes actual Euro market ones a bit more compelling, but then people go around in RHD JDM stuff now so it's maybe not as unusual as it used to be.
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- 27,162
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I think you're right, no 205s in GT games. They've appeared in a few of the rally titles though (there's a 205 in Dirt Rally 2.0), and then obviously the T16s have been in a bunch.
The Civic is an interesting one. I kinda feel those have mostly got the reputation they do from Americans who never had access to anything better. Contemporary reviews over here were kind of... lukewarm. Praise for the VTEC engines but never at risk of winning any tests against anything. They probably feel better now taken out of context of their competition but compared to the Euro stuff at the time they were the ones with fairly prescriptive handling, not much feedback etc.
I've never personally driven an EF or EG (though I have driven a Del Sol which is EG derived) so can't comment specifically, but what I can say is having driven more recent stuff, it's always the French cars in particular that still have a kind of dynamic character that nothing else really gets close to. I did a test a few years back with the FK8 Type R and a Megane RS in, and while the Honda won it, I'd say the Renault actually had the more interesting powertrain and more fluidity to its chassis - and that's something that pretty much tracks all the way back with every hot hatch since the genre existed.
I like to think I can speak without bias but honestly the Mini and Abarth aren't a patch on my Peugeot for the stuff that really matters to me. Both are quicker obviously, and probably benefit from ultimately higher levels of grip, braking ability etc, but for the tactile stuff it's hard to beat the 106.
Mini/Abarth have effectively no steering feel, gearbox could be connected to an electronic box replicating the feel of a transmission, over-servoed brakes, e-throttles taking away a degree of agency from your right foot. Abarth ultimately understeers everywhere (I've not yet tried a Fiat hot hatch that you can properly adjust on the throttle), Mini a bit more expressive but contrived to feel darty.
In contrast, the Peugeot just talks to you all the time. Steering more talkative, and the whole chassis feels energised as soon as you start cornering. Amazingly throttle-adjustable. Steering ratio is slow but I find that makes you consider your inputs more, particularly as you can then adjust your line so profoundly by lifting off. Grip is seriously impressive for 175-section tyres, especially considering I'm not running anything sticky. Again, helps that you can kill understeer stone dead with a bit of a lift. And for something with only ~100hp it's decently quick. Would easily drop a stock NA Miata in a straight line. Probably around corners too.
As I've discovered in the past year they really aren't as flaky as the reputation for French stuff suggests either. Not done any trackdays yet, but drove it hard for extended periods on my French trip back in April, on typical alpine roads. Temperature needle barely moved, brakes didn't go soft, and it settled right back into being a regular supermini in every town and city. I don't think the "Rallye" badge is marketing speak, I think they really did engineer it to handle hard use.
Incidentally, I've driven a 205 GTI too, albeit on a couple of brief (maybe 30 mins combined) occasions. Feels broadly similar to the 106 unsurprisingly. 1.9 GTI doesn't feel as quick relative to the Rallye as you'd expect but there's a bit more there. Steering is a little quicker, but maybe a shade less tactile. Feels like (and is) a physically bigger car. Better (lower) driving position, but doesn't feel as well-built (the 106 is weirdly good in this respect - far fewer rattles than the R50 Mini I tested it against a few years back!)
I'm kinda talking myself out of ever selling it
Every time I drive it, I remember why I like it, and I also instantly feel so much more at ease than in the Mazda, as there's something intangible about it being so much simpler mechanically, and knowing I can drive it so much harder on the road.
- 27,162
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Fleet update
Didn't realise it'd been quite so long since I updated this, so maybe it's time to fill in a few gaps from the past most-of-a-year. Not that there's a lot to fill in as not a great deal has actually changed.
Mazda first. It's been in storage since late July, but its MOT is due soon, so it'll be out again in a couple of weeks for that. It's nominally fine since getting the semi-resto done and generally drives nicely enough, but it still has a running issue that needs fixing before I can properly enjoy it. Realistically it needs a bit more money spending on it in the near future to be the car it should be - probably new brakes, new tyres, new bushes, and I'd like to upgrade the cooling system for peace of mind. Obviously because this will involve spending a fair bit of money I'm not in the world's greatest rush, but I still want to actually do stuff with this car so that'll all need to happen first.
Peugeot. Same it's always been. Haven't driven it as much this year as last (no road trips or anything), but still put maybe 1500 miles on it just bopping about. Still great fun. Annual service and its MOT are also coming up soon. Still got one or two plans for this car too but the last year has been... busy, due to things like redundancies and the ebb and flow of freelance work, which is one reason I didn't use it as much this year - I was hoping to do a few sprints and hill climbs but other stuff took priority, so maybe they're a next-year thing now.
Excuse the different angle of the Smart, different road, different purpose and all that. Still doing daily driver duties, have probably done 6000-ish miles in the past year (compared to 10k or so in its first year). Average economy is ticking over at about 72mpg imperial (60mpg US, 3.9L/100km).
Just passed its MOT, so this one will get a basic service soon. And then when I get around to it, I'll finally be selling it, as I fancy a change. It does the job, but some of its more obvious deficiencies (low performance, easily affected by crosswinds) are starting to grate after a couple of years, and the continually worsening state of UK roads means the stiff suspension is really wearing thin too.
Not sure what'll be replacing it yet. I have the world's longest shortlist covering all manner of things many of which are completely unrelated to each other, but to be very general most of the choices can be categorised as either:
- "Small and cheap" Mostly A- and B-segment cars that should do 50-60mpg without much effort and cost pennies to maintain, but I'm allergic to "obvious" choices so no VW Ups, Toyota Aygos etc.
- "Small and fun" I'd previously ruled out getting anything too hot-hatchy because I have the Peugeot, but because I try and avoid driving the Peugeot in bad weather, on salty roads, or doing dreary motorway trips in it, then maybe there are a few 00s-era hatches with things like ABS and power steering and air-con that fit the bill and might be fun for the odd trackday. Got a few ideas here...
- "Coupes" I do like a pointlessly impractical 2-seater or 2+2 and there are a number of again 00s-era cars of varying levels of comfort, performance and economy that I'm considering here.
- "Barges" One of my ideas is to go in completely the opposite direction from the Smart and get something that's big and rides well. Still automatic for maximum waft, probably diesel to try and at least get semi-decent economy, though a few ideas in the list are petrol.
- "The other stuff" Anything that catches my eye that doesn't fit into the above descriptions. A motley collection of things I find kinda interesting and may not be completely sensible. I'm not an SUV person but there are a few of those on my eBay watchlist, for instance. But also a few daft impractical things that would probably be even less relaxing than the Smart.
So if I can find the time I'll try and shift the Smart in the next few months and get properly shopping. Something from small & fun/coupes/barges is probably most likely as they're ultimately most sensible (and partly because after the Smart and spending so much time with the Peugeot I really need to break away from something small/slow/tinny for my own sanity...)
- 27,162
- United Kingdom
You may be unsurprised to learn the CR-Z is definitely on the "coupes" shortlist. I've considered them several times in the past. May see if I can borrow the one Honda UK owns to see what it's like to live with for a week or so when I've got a few journeys to do.
The future classic thing doesn't concern me too much as I'm unlikely to keep anything I get for more than a year or two, and I can't see CR-Z values changing much here in that time, though I think most stuff I'm considering is probably at the bottom of its depreciation curve, so most of the cars will probably be worth more or less the same when I come to sell it.
- 11,304
- Marin County
Are there any FTOs left in UK? Always thought those were neat, and we never got them stateside, but Mitsubishi's of that age don't seem to be around anymore.
INEEDNAWZZZ
Premium
- 1,752
- Lincoln
- EGGSBAWCKS
- DigitalLuke64DD
They used to be everywhere, but yeah, they got to the banger (beater) price point in the late 2000s and most weren't cared for particularly well and either scrapped or rusted away by now.
- 27,162
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Yeah as @INEEDNAWZZZ says they've just about disappeared. A lot were treated as most people treat cheap cars, and most of the rest seem to attract people whose idea of tuning is still stuck in the early 2000s, but with even less taste.
I wouldn't get one as a daily (any more - it was certainly a consideration 15 years ago!) but I'd still actually consider one as a fun car at some point as I do love the way they look. In standard form anyway, or with a tasteful set of wheels...
- 27,162
- United Kingdom
Test drove this one yeeeeears ago.
Was "only" an auto, and a GR Sports Package rather than a GPX (so had the GPX styling but the non-MIVEC engine), but it still drove really nicely. From what I recall it had a firm but not uncomfortable ride, fairly precise steering, and the engine felt so smooth. Even the auto box felt pretty good - there was good throttle response and it wasn't as slushy as you'd expect for the era. The other thing that's difficult to appreciate without driving one is how upright and wraparound the windscreen feels, it's a bit like an older Saab or an R50 Mini or similar, and that alone made it feel quite exotic.
I didn't buy this one in the end as it was showing signs of a headgasket being on the way out, and there was no way I could deal with the expense of fixing stuff like that at the time.
