Home Security - IP Cameras

  • Thread starter ExigeEvan
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ExigeEvan

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**Be sensible in what you're willing to disclose**

I'm looking at getting some home security cameras setup because I'm paranoid someone will try to attack my castle.

I'm interested ingoing down the IP path with a WD with some Red HDD as a recorder. Would probably only utilise 2-3 cameras, one of which would be to discretely view the front door and driveway.

Does anyone have personal experience? Any setups they've found easy and effective? I've quite a bit of experience in high end optics but the commercial market somewhat escapes me.
 
I can't help you with this subject but I do have a question:

Why did you choose WD Reds over the WD Purples?
 
Are you going to set up a dedicated PC to act as your DVR?

I've used Genius Vision at home. It integrates with just about every camera and has an app so you can check in from anywhere.

http://geniusvision.net/
 
I work at an electronics retailer that sells CCTV systems, so I am more than happy to help where possible.

For recording purposes I would recommend WD Purple HDD's as aforementioned - not only are they reliable, but they operate at a lower temperature which is specifically designed for CCTV systems.

Camera-wise, what sort of quality are you looking at? For IP camera (that use Power over Ethernet), you can get anything up to 1080p for quality, although these are relatively expensive. Alternatively, if you're looking down the wireless camera route, I really wouldn't bother as most operate on common wireless frequencies which is subject to interference.

So, three IP cameras run by PoE and connecting to a WD HDD of some description is what you're after. What's your prospective budget?
 
Sorry for the slow response gents, it's rare I'm on GTP at a PC.

I can't help you with this subject but I do have a question:

Why did you choose WD Reds over the WD Purples?
Because of complete ignorance! I wasn't aware that WD had purple drives, I was previously of the impression that WD Reds were the best option for 'always on'.

Are you going to set up a dedicated PC to act as your DVR?

I've used Genius Vision at home. It integrates with just about every camera and has an app so you can check in from anywhere.

http://geniusvision.net/
I was hoping to use a NAS but this could be a better solution.

Tom
I work at an electronics retailer that sells CCTV systems, so I am more than happy to help where possible.

For recording purposes I would recommend WD Purple HDD's as aforementioned - not only are they reliable, but they operate at a lower temperature which is specifically designed for CCTV systems.

Camera-wise, what sort of quality are you looking at? For IP camera (that use Power over Ethernet), you can get anything up to 1080p for quality, although these are relatively expensive. Alternatively, if you're looking down the wireless camera route, I really wouldn't bother as most operate on common wireless frequencies which is subject to interference.

So, three IP cameras run by PoE and connecting to a WD HDD of some description is what you're after. What's your prospective budget?
Budget is fairly flexible as I'm in no rush, and it needs to be effective for my relatively simple needs. No point skimping and finding the system can't identify a bad guy. I can see IP 4-camera with DVR kits going for £400 so I'd like to aim less than that.

I need a dome camera to cover the front door (small porch area it would fit into nicely, another to cover side access and the final one to cover the back door. A fourth could properly cover the driveway but I'd be more concered with it pointing at neighbours houses if I did that. All could with a little effort be hard wired and that's my preference. I personally think that if Wifi based CCTV becomes fairly common, so will attempts to temporarily disable such signals.

Front and side can be fairly narrow FoV and front and rear will be covered by security lights. Still want to be sure I'm getting a good DRI and not just grey mass. That doesn't necessarily mean 1080p, as lens and sensor quality all come into play.

So err, yeah in summary, what you stated is what I'm looking for! 👍
 
Coincidentally, I'm now looking for similar. I know nothing about CCTV but my parents want a system to monitor four (indoor) rooms and make recordings on-site, with live streams accessible over the internet but without a dedicated PC. I'm sure that can be achieved somehow (right?), but I don't know how... Sorry, I don't mean to hijack the thread but I didn't want to make my own when my requirements are similar. Naturally I'm thinking of a Raspberry Pi-based solution but I wouldn't expect them to be reliable or idiot-proof (I'm not installing them, you see) so they're probably not viable.
 
Coincidentally, I'm now looking for similar. I know nothing about CCTV but my parents want a system to monitor four (indoor) rooms and make recordings on-site, with live streams accessible over the internet but without a dedicated PC. I'm sure that can be achieved somehow (right?), but I don't know how... Sorry, I don't mean to hijack the thread but I didn't want to make my own when my requirements are similar. Naturally I'm thinking of a Raspberry Pi-based solution but I wouldn't expect them to be reliable or idiot-proof (I'm not installing them, you see) so they're probably not viable.
I don't see why you'd have a reliability problem with the Pi. The biggest issue I can see is storage access speed is limited by the USB 2.0 interface; storing video from four cameras will use some serious bandwidth.
 
@BobK Well I was thinking I could set up four Pis with their CSI camera periperals and maybe have a hard drive connected to each, but I'm not sure they can record and stream at the same time, can they?

I don't know, I just think they'd be a bit flimsy since they're not specifically designed for the task. There's also the fact that there are all sorts of reports about the unreliability of the USB root hubs in even recent versions that make me doubt their capability in a 24/7 recording/streaming role. I haven't really thought about how it would work exactly, though.
 
@BobK Well I was thinking I could set up four Pis with their CSI camera periperals and maybe have a hard drive connected to each, but I'm not sure they can record and stream at the same time, can they?

I don't know, I just think they'd be a bit flimsy since they're not specifically designed for the task. There's also the fact that there are all sorts of reports about the unreliability of the USB root hubs in even recent versions that make me doubt their capability in a 24/7 recording/streaming role. I haven't really thought about how it would work exactly, though.
Possibly you know something I don't about the reliability, but I haven't had a single hiccup from any of the three Pis that I own (admittedly one of them doesn't get a whole lot of use). In any case, I just ran this:
Code:
pi@pi2 ~ $ uptime 
 12:08:12 up 18 days, 54 min,  3 users,  load average: 0.00, 0.01, 0.05
Hardly conclusive, but there it is.
 
My two recommendations, don't get WiFi cameras. Protection on wifi is a joke, and the last thing you want is a criminal or bored neighborhood kid watching your house too. The second, be careful with security programs that stream, for the same reason. These are less likely to be foubd, and far harder to be hacked into, but it does put your feeds out onto the internet. In fact, straight up streaming might not be a good idea, since it utilizes UDP, which has no encryption.
Just some things to consider, no sense in adding protective systems that may leave you vulnerable.
 
My two recommendations, don't get WiFi cameras. Protection on wifi is a joke, and the last thing you want is a criminal or bored neighborhood kid watching your house too. The second, be careful with security programs that stream, for the same reason. These are less likely to be foubd, and far harder to be hacked into, but it does put your feeds out onto the internet. In fact, straight up streaming might not be a good idea, since it utilizes UDP, which has no encryption.
Just some things to consider, no sense in adding protective systems that may leave you vulnerable.
As I understand what @neema_t is doing, he's going to use this camera (or cameras, I should say) which are not wi-fi cameras in and of themselves. In fact he may not be planning on using wi-fi at all.

That being said, your points about wi-fi cameras are very good ones.
 
@Rallywagon - WiFi security can be very good, but I'm unsure how well IP camera support the required standards. I'm more concerned about denial attacks on a WiFi network in the context of home security.
 
We were planning on some sort of ethernet camera thing because the ones with PoE simplify the setup, then we'd use VPN to connect to take a look.

But we no longer have a requirement for security cameras, they were intended to keep an eye on my great aunt because we suspected the people that were caring for her were being negligent, but sadly she passed away two weeks ago (from something completely unrelated to any negligence). Thanks anyway, I should've mentioned it but I forgot I'd posted here in relation to that.
 
@Rallywagon - WiFi security can be very good, but I'm unsure how well IP camera support the required standards. I'm more concerned about denial attacks on a WiFi network in the context of home security.
Wifi can be better, I'm not sure I would call it very good, at the enterprise level. Home systems still run less often WEP and more often WPA and WPA2. These are stupid easy to crack.
 
More and more people are getting them, but personally the dummy camera I have above my door is probably enough of a deterent.
 
For your application, I would suggest taking a look at Ring. I have both their motion-activated doorbell and "Stick Up Cam" cameras. Both are wireless, easy to set up, and fully integrated with Ring's mobile apps.

The doorbell, obviously, would be a great fit for your front door. It starts recording video when it detects motion, and you can talk to people who ring your doorbell, no matter where you're at. The "Stick Up Cam" has the motion activation features, and it doesn't even have to be plugged in - it has a rechargeable battery which they claim lasts for 6 months. I've not had my camera long enough (it just came out last month) to test this, but from what I've seen it does appear it will last a while.

What I like about Ring is that it only records (and notifies you) of motion events. That makes it easy to review only the interesting parts of video. It's also entirely cloud-based, so there's no local hardware to manage.

A more sophisticated service is called Camio. It lets you use most any IP camera (or phone/tablet camera), and uploads the footage to its cloud, where it runs advanced image and pattern recognition algorithms on your video to determine what is and is not important. I haven't used the service but it looks very interesting.
 
Does anyone have experience or thoughts on the Netgear Arlo system? I'm leaning towards it because it's completely wireless meaning I don't have to do any wiring to power it up, but I also need to pay a monthly fee for cloud storage. My only concern is... how do you stop the camera itself from being stolen?

Edit: I suppose what I would like is an outdoor camera that is easy to setup (i.e. as little hardwiring as possible like the Netgear Arlo) with continuous recording and doesn't require cloud storage, though I'd be okay if it were free and had a decent amount of storage space. The only reason I'm hesitating on the Arlo is because it doesn't record continuously and battery life is questionable.
 
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Does anyone have experience or thoughts on the Netgear Arlo system? I'm leaning towards it because it's completely wireless meaning I don't have to do any wiring to power it up, but I also need to pay a monthly fee for cloud storage. My only concern is... how do you stop the camera itself from being stolen?

Edit: I suppose what I would like is an outdoor camera that is easy to setup (i.e. as little hardwiring as possible like the Netgear Arlo) with continuous recording and doesn't require cloud storage, though I'd be okay if it were free and had a decent amount of storage space. The only reason I'm hesitating on the Arlo is because it doesn't record continuously and battery life is questionable.



You can't stop the camera from being stolen. Part of my job is doing camera systems, and most likely they won't steal the camera they'll just break it.

Every camera system I've installed, probably around 100, all cameras are set to motion-record only. There's no sense in wasting recording time/hard-drive wear for them to record nothing. Granted, these store to the cloud, so it's not your hard disk that's being thrashed with 24/7 recording time.

I have had a few owners that wanted full record on certain cameras just to be sure, but the motion record will usually catch any movement that happened. I've had cameras near air conditioning vents that will trigger motion record with fine particles of dust that go in front of the camera.

Most all decent camera systems will let you adjust the motion recording sensitivity.

My only drawbacks with the Arlo are:

1. Price, pretty expensive for two wireless cameras. Batteries seem cheap enough.
2. Still face the dilemma of if you lose power, you've lost camera recording. There doesn't seem to be a mention of local storage, as some "wireless cameras" will take an sd card for local storage before sending stream to DVR/Cloud wherever. What if you internet just goes down?
3. If I was going to buy that setup, I'd invest in a good battery backup unit for your router and/or cable modem to keep internet up. Now just because your modem is up doesn't necessarily mean you've got internet.
4. where's your recording? Oh it's in the cloud. I'm fine with the cloud, but somethings should just stay local.

It seems like a fine system, but if I was going to spend that much money for 2 cameras, I'd look into what I'll call a "real" DVR solution.

Yeah running cables in houses can be a pain in the ass sometimes.

I'd venture to say people wanting these cameras to "secure" their home are going to put them outside to watch the doors. Someone breaking into your house, most likely has scoped out your house, and maybe they've noticed that camera outside your door. If I really want in your house, I'll take that camera out before it sees me somehow. You'd want a camera inside your doors as there is where your going to get the best shot of what the person looks like.

Not even going to get into the fact of how easy "Night-vision" cameras are to circumvent. A halo of IR leds around your face defeats any IR camera at night. There are some cameras that offer night-vision without resorting to infrared bulbs.

Camera manufacturers make "vandal-proof" dome cameras that can be placed outside and most of them will be able to take a direct shot with a hammer and still work.

Would the arlo system give you piece of mind? Probably. Would I use it for anything other than watching my kids sleep, probably not.

If you do buy the arlo, don't put the window decal up that says "I have an Arlo camera system by netgear" or whatever the decal says.

I try to educate my clients, that you have to think of a camera system as a deterrent. If they want what you've got behind cameras they will find a way.

That's not to say cameras are useless. I don't have an accurate number, but I'd venture to guess camera systems I've installed have helped prosecute 20 or so people. How many people have been fired from something caught on camera, I would say a bunch.

One cool thing I just saw with the Arlo is it can be tied in with IFTTT so if a camera senses motion you can have your smart-lights turn on. That's a pretty neat feature.

A lot of DVR boxes will offer alarm outputs, so if a camera sensed motion it could trigger an alarm zone, but most times you'll get to many false-alarms with that setup. However, I would think you could use that same alarm output wiring to trigger a light to come on.
 
Reviving this thread because the strangest thing happened.

Today, I was testing 9 out of the 10 HIKvision IP cameras, configurations, image, live feed and whatnot.

First thing happened:
  1. Internet connection failed.
  2. Computer started to act strangely. Mouse arrow disappearing, slow when opening applications, not able to shut it down properly etc ... .
I tried to get the internet connection back to no avail. Called my internet provider. They tested the modem and internet provider employee got the message that a technician was needed. She told me to disconnect the power of the modem, wait for 15 sec. and switch the power back on. Again to no avail. Still no internet/telephone connection).

So, I decided to disconnect the Synology NAS and all the IP cameras and switch off the power from the modem again. But this time, I waited not 15 sec. but 5 tot 10 minutes. After switching on the power of the modem again, everything was functioning as it should be >>> modem, telephone, pc and internet.

Strange because this pc, although not the newest, is still a rather powerfull pc. i5 4690 - 16GB of fast gaming memory (can't remember the brand), GTX970, Asus Z97 Pro gamer motherboard.

Where 9 cameras too much? Was there something wrong with how I connected the ninth camera because 8 cameras were working perfectly.
 
Reviving this thread because the strangest thing happened.

Today, I was testing 9 out of the 10 HIKvision IP cameras, configurations, image, live feed and whatnot.

First thing happened:
  1. Internet connection failed.
  2. Computer started to act strangely. Mouse arrow disappearing, slow when opening applications, not able to shut it down properly etc ... .
I tried to get the internet connection back to no avail. Called my internet provider. They tested the modem and internet provider employee got the message that a technician was needed. She told me to disconnect the power of the modem, wait for 15 sec. and switch the power back on. Again to no avail. Still no internet/telephone connection).

So, I decided to disconnect the Synology NAS and all the IP cameras and switch off the power from the modem again. But this time, I waited not 15 sec. but 5 tot 10 minutes. After switching on the power of the modem again, everything was functioning as it should be >>> modem, telephone, pc and internet.

Strange because this pc, although not the newest, is still a rather powerfull pc. i5 4690 - 16GB of fast gaming memory (can't remember the brand), GTX970, Asus Z97 Pro gamer motherboard.

Where 9 cameras too much? Was there something wrong with how I connected the ninth camera because 8 cameras were working perfectly.

Can you connect to them with a generic non-bloat driver/software set up? I'm guessing you're using Windows?
 
Can you connect to them with a generic non-bloat driver/software set up? I'm guessing you're using Windows?
I have absolutely no idea what a generic non-bloat driver/software set up is. I'm going to google it and try to find out. Yes, Windows 10 Pro. A friend of mine, computer and networkspecialist asked me if I made a loop in the network, going from a PoE switch back to the PoE switch. I'm 99.9% sure that I didn't.
I'm using two Netgear PoE switches to feed all 10 cameras.

EDIT: cannot find it but I have a fairly good idea what it is. In case I'm wrong, correct me, educate me but I have the Synology DS 716+II NAS with its own software and or driver. So, I guess that is not the problem.
 
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