Hostage Drama in Sydney

  • Thread starter Thread starter Mike Rotch
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What a shame that these stone age extremists always feel the need to cause trouble in our nice first world countries.

Hope everyone involved is safe.
 
Carl the Sloth
What a shame that these stone age extremists always feel the need to cause trouble in our nice first world countries.
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Well yes. It sends a message.

It is like the beheadings. They didn't do it because they enjoy it, they did it because it sends a message.
 
haitch40
Well yes. It sends a message.

It is like the beheadings. They didn't do it because they enjoy it, they did it because it sends a message.
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It certainly does get the attention of the countries of whom the victims originated from. What really is a shame is they don't leave it at that, and are still beheading hundreds of people daily for little to no reason at all in the Middle East, there is no message behind that, the media don't care. Infact the only exposure those victims get are mobile phone videos that spread to LiveLeak and 4chan.
 
If this perpetrator is affiliated with IS then this changes things. They've now have connections, one can assume, worldwide and therefore become a direct threat to the West in the same way as Al-Qaeda.
 
It has been confirmed that the flag is not an IS flag. The suggestion that it was seems to have come from an eyewitness who mistook the flag for an IS banner.

Police seem to be treating this as a hostage situation rather than a terrorist attack.
 
prisonermonkeys
It has been confirmed that the flag is not an IS flag. The suggestion that it was seems to have come from an eyewitness who mistook the flag for an IS banner.
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How about you tell more than half the story:

The flag shown being held by hostages against the window of Lindt Chocolat Cafe is not an Islamic State flag, but is an Islamic flag that has been co-opted by jihadist groups.

However, Greg Barton, a terrorism expert from Melbourne's Monash University, said that "getting hold of an [Islamic State] flag would be quite difficult, and people will make do with what they have got".

The flag appears to be a Shahada flag, which represents a general expression of faith in Islam, but has been co-opted by various jihadist groups.
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A post I put up on Facebook:


What's happening in Sydney is a terrorist act.

ANYTHING carried out with an element of fear is terrorism. An armed hold-up? That's terrorism.

Hostage situation? That's terrorism.

Achieving a goal via inflicting terror, that's terrorism.

What the motivation is behind the event/s in Sydney, I don't know. But it is terrorism.
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A small scale, localised version yes, in my opinion.

EDIT:

As a victim myself of severe domestic abuse both physical and mental I can tell you it sure has the same result as more 'conventional' terrorism.



EDIT 2:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/terrorism?s=t

"noun
1.
the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes."

Not strictly political, so yes, I completely stand by what I said.



EDIT 3:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intimate_partner_violence

"Intimate partner violence is domestic violence against a spouse or other intimate partner. The most extreme type of violence is "intimate terrorism" where one person is violent and controlling"

Yes, I utterly and completely stick by what I said.


EDIT 4: That definition from wikipedia perfectly describes the situation I was in (as the victim not the perpetrator).
 
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Lindt Australia CEO believes that there are upwards of 40 people involved as hostages, including customers and staff, but other reports place that number closer to 13.


prisonermonkeys
It has been confirmed that the flag is not an IS flag. The suggestion that it was seems to have come from an eyewitness who mistook the flag for an IS banner.

Police seem to be treating this as a hostage situation rather than a terrorist attack.
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Actually, it was 7News Sidney that said that it could be an Islamic State flag, this by way of Jihad Watch:

A siege situation is underway in Sydney’s Martin Place as a gunman holds up a Lindt Chocolate Cafe.

Police have confirmed an operation is underway after officers were called to the shop around 9:45am on Monday.

It’s believed at least 13 hostages are being held in the cafe, where an black flag with white Arabic writing was reportedly brandished across the window.

The faces of customers and workers were pressed up against a shop window of the Lindt Chocolat Cafe.

They had their hands in the air and their eyes closed. And were made to hold up what is believed to be an Islamic State flag….
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EDIT: Breaking: 7News Sidney is reporting that the Hostage taker is in his 40s, wearing a black vest and police won't say if he is carrying explosives.
 
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Sanji Himura
Actually, it was 7News Sidney that said that it could be an Islamic State flag
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I wouldn't trust Seven in the slightest. They pride themselves on getting exclusives, but the problem is that this has come at the expense of fact checking. To them, it doesn't matter if the flag is related to IS or not, so long as they are the first to report the connection.
 
prisonermonkeys
I wouldn't trust Seven in the slightest. They pride themselves on getting exclusives, but the problem is that this has come at the expense of fact checking. To them, it doesn't matter if the flag is related to IS or not, so long as they are the first to report the connection.
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I'm not, but I'm simply telling you who first reported the connection. I know that there are differences between the ISIS flag and a regular Jihad flag that is held up against that window.
 
7 would be perfect to trust at this point because its directly across from the cafe and the police are inside the Seven building getting birds eye view on the situation.

The northern side of the cbd is unaccessable at this point, but the rest of the city seems to be normal, im currently on Kent st and you couldn't really tell anything is happening.
 
mustafur
7 would be perfect to trust at this point because its directly across from the cafe and the police are inside the Seven building getting birds eye view on the situation.
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Their position doesn't matter - they don't check facts.

Also, the police evacuated the surrounding buildings hours ago.
 
ABC News, not sure if this is US Media, is quoting the Police Commissioner in willful ignorance in the flag saying that, "we are still trying to work out what that stands for."

Also, Jihad Watch, along with a number of news agencies in the US has reported that the US Consulate in Sidney has shut down for the foreseeable future as the hostage situation unfolds.
 
Sanji Himura
ABC News, not sure if this is US Media, is quoting the Police Commissioner in willful ignorance in the flag saying that, "we are still trying to work out what that stands for."
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They probably don't want to use the term "terrorist" until they absolutely have to. That's a bell they can't un-ring. And community tensions were high following a string of anti-terror raids a few months ago, which led to accusations that Muslims were being considered guilty by association. Right now, they're probably trying to treat it as an ordinary hostage situation - there was a guy who holed up in an Adelaide brothel a few months ago - to try and head off some of the latent tensions. The last thing they want is to equate the flag with a terrorist act when it is not specifically synonymous with a terror group.
 
prisonermonkeys
Their position doesn't matter - they don't check facts.

Also, the police evacuated the surrounding buildings hours ago.
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Interesting you say that given Westpac hasnt been evacuated and neither has 7 obviously, given they are still broadcasting.

Something about fact checking, you were saying...
 
Mike Rotch
neither has 7 obviously, given they are still broadcasting.
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Seven have more than one studio. Their Martin Place offices are directly opposite the cafe. Given that the police have moved all the media back towards Macquarie Street, I doubt they would let Seven broadcast from Martin Place.
 
Maybe so, but that still doesn't stop them from broadcasting from as close as possible to the action. American media do it all the time every time Israel gets into a conflict with its neighbors, sometimes getting in the line of fire itself.

EDIT: I took another re-read*, and while police may close off Martin Place from 7News, my overall point is that it doesn't stop the station from sending a crew to the scene.

*I blame the England English to American English understanding issues.

EDIT 2: Five hostages have now been freed or escaped. Three men and two women. It is reported by news.com.au that two or up to four of the former hostages have spoken to the media, with two speaking to Sidney radio station 2GB, and Ten News has also reported to speaking to two hostages.

All five hostages have reported the number of hostages at around 50, contrary to police reports that have the number at around 13, but have since been revised to 30.

Hostages have been forced to reach out to media, with Channel 9 news receiving a call late in the afternoon.
 
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Mike Rotch
Interesting you say that given Westpac hasnt been evacuated and neither has 7 obviously, given they are still broadcasting.

Something about fact checking, you were saying...
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Channel Seven evacuated

The Channel Seven newsroom, which faces Martin Place, was evacuated, along with the Macquarie Bank and Westpac offices in the area.

The Martin Place studio is Seven's main newsroom and is home to breakfast show Sunrise andThe Morning Show, which was on air when news of the siege broke about 9.45am.

The network was originally running a live-stream of the siege, but was asked to take it down for security reasons.

It is unknown if any Seven staff are among the hostages. Channel Seven has shifted its network operations to Melbourne during the siege.
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Sanji Himura
Maybe so, but that still doesn't stop them from broadcasting from as close as possible to the action. American media do it all the time every time Israel gets into a conflict with its neighbors, sometimes getting in the line of fire itself.

EDIT: I took another re-read*, and while police may close off Martin Place from 7News, my overall point is that it doesn't stop the station from sending a crew to the scene.

*I blame the England English to American English understanding issues.
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Oh, I get what you're saying. But there was a notorious incident in the early 1990s when a current affairs (read: tabloid journalism) programme managed to get through to a gunman holding hostages and tried to interview with him live on air. Ever since then, the police have taken a fairly hardline approach to the media in situations like this, and the media tend to respect it.
 
Martin Place.png


Just noticed something, maybe one of you can confirm this, but is Martin Place connected at all to the Reserve Bank of Australia? If so, it might not be terrorism that is the motive here, but rather robbery?
 
Sanji Himura
Just noticed something, maybe one of you can confirm this, but is Martin Place connected at all to the Reserve Bank of Australia? If so, it might not be terrorism that is the motive here, but rather robbery?
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It's doubtful. Police are treating this as a lone wolf attack. He has reportedly made demands, but they have not been made public just yet.
 

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