How does one force a penalty on clean driving?

[zortation]

I do my best to race as clean and as smooth as possible...I now know really, it's the only way to play this game.

So that being said I totally accept that some guys know how to game the penalty system to move up a position in the Daily Races...but how? I saved a replay of a pretty good race I had...drew 3 penalties but still finished 7th. I think I saw one moment where a player behind me was right up my @ss moving side to side, maybe we touched cars, I can't remember but I kept my line and did nothing to block them and they could have easily passed. He forced a penalty on me and he got his way.

Full disclosure I do enjoy close racing, but I always use my radar to keep from hitting or crossing paths with upcoming drivers...Was it me or them?

 

[GOTMAXPOWER]

Was it me or them?

It's hard to judge from a written commentary.

 

[zortation]

It's hard to judge from a written commentary.

I knew it was me. It was me wasn't it? I knew it.

 

[GOTMAXPOWER]

I knew it was me. It was me wasn't it? I knew it.

I thought that originally but I'm not so sure now. Screw that other guy, he sucks.

 

[Famine]

I knew it was me. It was me wasn't it? I knew it.

Without seeing the race video - and preferably the race, not the replay - it's impossible to know.

However, to answer your title question, by hitting the wall or going off-track after contact. If two cars come together and one then hits the wall or goes off-track, the other one gets a penalty. It's not always the case, and there are some areas of wall or grass where it's almost always a penalty for the car that goes there, but that's the basic premise.

You can see this particularly clearly in Race A this week. The cars are slow and side-by-side a lot, so there's lots of door-banging. If one results in a car scraping Tokyo's tight walls, the other one gets a penalty.

 

[GlenGDN]

I'm also getting a little frustrated with the penalties I keep receiving. For example, on the current Daily Race on Tokyo Expressway, I was driving on the long straight in a straight line full throttle, then the car behind slipstreams me and the bumps me from behind. I get a penalty!

Some other instances in the Red Bull Ring Daily race.
The car in front of me spins on corner 2 right in front of me, nothing I could do but I hit hime. Another penalty!
Again on red bull ring. I'm following a car who slightly loses control exiting turn 3, I draw level with him on his left ready for turn 4 (left hand turn). I keep tight to the left edge and turn in, yet he tries to turn in slightly bumping me...I get the penalty!

I think overall the system works well, but these examples are very annoying and frustrating and would be great if it could be improved.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Enjoy this thread
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/penalty-system-is-still-a-piece-of.378725/
PD is trying to improve the penalty system. However players find new loop holes faster than PD can (or is willing) to patch them. At least PD was pretty quick in fixing the penalty zone ghosting issues.

I've kinda given up on saving examples of all the incorrect penalties. The basic algorithm hasn't changed much in half a year. If contact and 1 car goes off/hits wall other car gets penalty. PD fixed cases where a car punts a car into another car so now more often the instigator gets the penalty instead of (one of) the victim(s). Cases where a car comes from off track to hit you are also improved. Yet the simple tap a car from behind, then tap a wall still fully works to penalize the car ahead, as well as the constant SR Downs when someone draft bumps you.

The most annoying way to get a penalty imo is still going into a corner side by side, you have the right to the apex, yet the other car turns in like you don't exist, bounces off and gives you a penalty. It destroys actual racing as on some tracks it makes overtaking simply not worth the risk. It's better for SR to overtake on the outside, however you might still get SR Down when getting bumped off since there is also still the DR discrimination. (lower DR rank hits higher DR rank off road, higher DR is more likely to get SR Down than the lower DR receiving a deserved penalty)

It works better than not having a penalty system, but other than penalize obvious punts (with too low of a penalty to compensate for time lost) it's still rather hit and miss. Just enough to prevent sport mode from devolving into anarchy. You have to visit SR.E now and then to restore your faith in SR.S as being 'clean'

 

[GlenGDN]

Enjoy this thread
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/penalty-system-is-still-a-piece-of.378725/
PD is trying to improve the penalty system. However players find new loop holes faster than PD can (or is willing) to patch them. At least PD was pretty quick in fixing the penalty zone ghosting issues.

I've kinda given up on saving examples of all the incorrect penalties. The basic algorithm hasn't changed much in half a year. If contact and 1 car goes off/hits wall other car gets penalty. PD fixed cases where a car punts a car into another car so now more often the instigator gets the penalty instead of (one of) the victim(s). Cases where a car comes from off track to hit you are also improved. Yet the simple tap a car from behind, then tap a wall still fully works to penalize the car ahead, as well as the constant SR Downs when someone draft bumps you.

The most annoying way to get a penalty imo is still going into a corner side by side, you have the right to the apex, yet the other car turns in like you don't exist, bounces off and gives you a penalty. It destroys actual racing as on some tracks it makes overtaking simply not worth the risk. It's better for SR to overtake on the outside, however you might still get SR Down when getting bumped off since there is also still the DR discrimination. (lower DR rank hits higher DR rank off road, higher DR is more likely to get SR Down than the lower DR receiving a deserved penalty)

It works better than not having a penalty system, but other than penalize obvious punts (with too low of a penalty to compensate for time lost) it's still rather hit and miss. Just enough to prevent sport mode from devolving into anarchy. You have to visit SR.E now and then to restore your faith in SR.S as being 'clean'

Thanks. I was a mid to high B driver racing, with an S safety rating for most of the last year. I had a few bad races (with some penalties I didn't deserve), and then got into the crazy world of sub-S safety drivers. I'm now a B safety rating, and I'm having to give up racing, and just follow from the back to get the safety rating up. I just had another red bull ring daily race and was doing just that when the car in front got out of shape, so on the straight I decided to cruise by. Crazy driver deliberately swiped me as I went by, and I got a penalty! It does make me consider giving up on GT Sport going back to Assetto Corsa.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Thanks. I was a mid to high B driver racing, with an S safety rating for most of the last year. I had a few bad races (with some penalties I didn't deserve), and then got into the crazy world of sub-S safety drivers. I'm now a B safety rating, and I'm having to give up racing, and just follow from the back to get the safety rating up. I just had another red bull ring daily race and was doing just that when the car in front got out of shape, so on the straight I decided to cruise by. Crazy driver deliberately swiped me as I went by, and I got a penalty! It does make me consider giving up on GT Sport going back to Assetto Corsa.

A and B are very hard to gain SR on. The daily A this week is the lowest SR earner yet, only 2 points for a contact free race. The daily B is usually 5 points which is gone with 2 bumps from behind. You have to do the daily C to restore SR, even with an unfair time penalty and plenty SR Downs from bumps from behind I still come out with a blue S. (As most everybody else, so no one cares about contact in this no contact sport :/)

You still have trouble makers in SR.S but a lot less than in SR.B. Part of the game is figuring out who you can trust and who to avoid at all cost. I used to block people on psn that were particularly bad, then before the race starts I could quickly check the players met list and see who were all blocked on there so I knew who to avoid. By now I recognize their names, it's their alt accounts that are the problem now...

 

[breeminator]

If two cars come together and one then hits the wall or goes off-track, the other one gets a penalty. It's not always the case, and there are some areas of wall or grass where it's almost always a penalty for the car that goes there, but that's the basic premise.

So what happens if both drivers are aware of this, and after a minor bump, they both deliberately drive into the wall?
- both get a penalty?
- the one who hits the wall 2nd gets the penalty?
- if it's a bend, the one on the inside gets the penalty?
- the one with the higher DR gets the penalty?
etc

It seems to me it shouldn't be THAT hard for the game to detect that a player's inputs were in the direction of hitting a wall or leaving the track rather than trying to prevent it. To me, fixing this should be one of PD's absolute top priorities, as systematically wrong awarding of penalties strikes at the very heart of the main focus of the game as providing serious online racing.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

So what happens if both drivers are aware of this, and after a minor bump, they both deliberately drive into the wall?
- both get a penalty?
- the one who hits the wall 2nd gets the penalty?
- if it's a bend, the one on the inside gets the penalty?
- the one with the higher DR gets the penalty?
etc

It seems to me it shouldn't be THAT hard for the game to detect that a player's inputs were in the direction of hitting a wall or leaving the track rather than trying to prevent it. To me, fixing this should be one of PD's absolute top priorities, as systematically wrong awarding of penalties strikes at the very heart of the main focus of the game as providing serious online racing.

It's my suspicion (often re-affirmed) that the driver with the higher DR gets the penalty. Sometimes neither get a penalty (same DR rank possibly), never both. When both go off road / hit a wall it's usually only SR down for the higher DR driver.

"bumping off" an SR down, ie touching the wall after someone draft bumps you, only works when you have the same or lower DR. I had a case on Tokyo where a lower DR driver rear ended me and I bumped the wall right after, to still receive a 4 sec penalty and SR Down...

However I've also demonstrated before how easy it is to draft bump someone right before the finish, then the wall to give them a post finish penalty and you end up finishing before them. (the bastard deserved it in that case) The game could easily have detected my deliberate steering into the wall, yet it does not. @sturk0167 has confirmed the same on this week's Tokyo race, to take out a dirty driver.

I doubt PD keeps this in the game as a self 'policing' method, but it is one way of getting payback :/