How does this have over 700 Cars, with fully modelled exteriors and interiors?

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Gran Turismo has just over 300, how is it possible, what's the secret that PD need to be in on so that GT can match the Forza prowess?

I find it quite astonishing that they can model so many cars, down to even their sounds and trunk interior, and have it be replicated so beautifully in the game. I am a GT fan my self, though when I am not playing GT I do find myself playing Forza on my PC, and because I bounce around these two games, the difference in car numbers just had me pondering.
 
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273
Germany
Germany
Gran Turismo has just over 300, how is it possible, what's the secret that PD need to be in on so that GT can match the Forza prowess?

I find it quite astonishing that they can model so many cars, down to even their sounds and trunk interior, and have it be replicated so beautifully in the game. I am a GT fan my self, though when I am not playing GT I do find myself playing Forza on my PC, and because I bounce around these two games, the difference in car numbers just had me pondering.
I have both, nothing against Forza, but graphics and sounds are weak against mostly GT cars. As I read, they often take the same sound file for many cars, that are all points which make is quicker.. You shouldn’t forget, too, GT Sport was a completely new game, Forza 7 a „Forza 6 2.0“. About the years, GT Sport got more cars via update and with GT7 certainly much more, too.
 

UKMikey

Hard to ignore, but worth the effort
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UKMikeyA
UKMikeyA
It's a shame you can only see the front half while driving.
 
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1,338
United Kingdom
Sunderland
Continuously iterating on an existing library of cars since Forza 2/3 or so, as well as outsourcing modelling of newer ones, and the clean-up of older cars to fit current standards.

Now and then a racing game will do a "reset" where they drop their number of cars to a smaller amount to focus on quality. GT did this with GT3 and GT Sport, Forza did it with FM5.
 
10,390
Canada
Canada
I have both games too, though I'm disappointed that GT has yet again reduced its car list. Unlike Forza, GT will be busy trying to get back all of the cars that ever featured in racing games, most notably GT4.

I play Forza games nowadays for its large collection of cars (and collecting them too, of course), and FH4 has the BIGGEST collection of cars of any game ever! I highly recommend you check it out if you're into open world arcade games. :)

With that said, both GTS and Forza 7 have there own pros and cons. I'm mostly into Forza these days because of its cars, as well as cars and manufacturers I've never even heard of. :D
 
13,599
United States
Los Angeles, CA
lImaRobotl
I have both, nothing against Forza, but graphics and sounds are weak against mostly GT cars. As I read, they often take the same sound file for many cars, that are all points which make is quicker.. You shouldn’t forget, too, GT Sport was a completely new game, Forza 7 a „Forza 6 2.0“. About the years, GT Sport got more cars via update and with GT7 certainly much more, too.
It took GT completely dropping the vast majority of its content to be able to produce what it did. They were both reaching ends that just weren't working anymore - Having humongous car lists with lots lacking in between. It wasn't until very recently with GTS that there was finally some actual concentration on the cars themselves, much like Forza is supposedly doing now. GT always focus on graphics to a fault, Forza focused more on features and compromised other choices, and in the end, neither are outright better than each other in my opinion.
 

Dave A

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JDA1982
FH4 has the BIGGEST collection of cars of any game ever!
I'm pretty sure that accolade still sits with Gran Turismo 6 at 1197 cars at launch and some more added as post launch DLC.

You can make valid points about the disparity of quality between models, but in terms of sheer volume nothing has Gran Turismo 6 beaten yet as far I am aware.
 
10,390
Canada
Canada
I'm pretty sure that accolade still sits with Gran Turismo 6 at 1197 cars at launch and some more added as post launch DLC.

You can make valid points about the disparity of quality between models, but in terms of sheer volume nothing has Gran Turismo 6 beaten yet as far I am aware.
If any Forza game can reach such a number like that, it will blow my mind! :eek:

Not that I want it to beat GT6 in terms number of cars, a 1,000+ cars will be a dream come true for those who love to collect. :)
 
2,613
Philippines
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GBalao888
GBalao888
If any Forza game can reach such a number like that, it will blow my mind! :eek:

Not that I want it to beat GT6 in terms number of cars, a 1,000+ cars will be a dream come true for those who love to collect. :)
Combining everything in the Forza series so far (not including pre-order cars and those from the Welcome Pack), you're looking at around over 1,600 cars.
 
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Sunderland
Combining everything in the Forza series so far (not including pre-order cars and those from the Welcome Pack), you're looking at around over 1,600 cars.
Is that everything everything - including cars that disappeared even before the Xbox 360 era like the Camry Solara, and low-detail cars like FH1's traffic - or just stuff that could conceivably be updated for current titles?
 
8,674
United States
Marin County
I'm sure there are exceptions but most of the cars that were present in FM3 that also exist in FH4/FM7 are practically the same assets. I believe the same is true for subsequent games. Basically they have been snowballing their assets since FM3 (11 years now). In addition to that, customization of cars has been significantly reduced since the FM3 era (most cars only have generic aero parts that look like somebody spent 5 minutes adjusting to fit the car, etc) Simply put, a substantial number of Forza assets are, in my opinion, substandard. I believe the next FM game is going to start with new assets (or at least Xbox One-era assets) which is why it's development has taken significantly longer. That's mostly speculation on my part, but I have a hard time believing they will include that S15 again...

m9pCX6K.jpg
 
39,010
Yeah, the elephant in the room for "how does this have over 700 cars" is that there's a not-small amount of them that aren't really that good (and the ones that are still aren't as good as PD's efforts usually are) and an inexcusable amount that just look terrible; a problem that has plagued the series since the beginning. There were a couple cars in FM3/FM4 that looked so bad that it's not an exaggeration to say that the GT5 Standard car equivalent looked more accurate even if it was objectively lower quality; and I daresay since some of them have been carried over barely touched even to this day that that's still true in FH4.




It's why the insistence by Turn 10 that they had started from scratch with FM5-forward always came off as a joke whenever it was brandished as a weapon against other games or used to justify its own lack of content, since it was so blatantly not true (even before people found the bugs with them that were carried over) that you'd half expect Turn 10 was the one who tutored Game Freak on the topic when Sword and Shield came out.
 
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1,338
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Sunderland
I think the number of bad models in Forza is quite overblown when people get heated on the issue. I don't disagree that the bad ones are bad, but all the significantly inaccurate ones I can think of are:
- Nissan S15
- VW R32
- Skyline R32
- Toyota MR2 SW20
- Saleen S7

I'm purposefully ignoring tiny ones like the white strip on the AE86's bumper because those aren't significant differences.

I know it'd be great to have 100% of the cars in perfect quality, and a lot of people like to say "quality over quantity", but truthfully when it's only a handful of cars out of almost 800 that are truly inaccurate, isn't that pretty much quality and quantity?
 
10,390
Canada
Canada
It is indeed a tiny number. Because Forza features so many cars that are accurate, the inaccuracies don't bother me in the slightest. In fact, they don't bother me at all because the games are THAT fun to play despite the fact.

A game can have the most accurate models in existence. But if it's boring to play, than I'm honestly comfortable with Forza's approach IMO. Although I know some are inaccurate, those inaccuracies don't effect my gameplay in anyway like the game Gravel, cause again, the games are fun.
 
39,010
As long as those cars continue to exist, they will continue to be justified as being the obvious stick with which to beat Turn 10 because of things Turn 10 said themselves. Those models weren't good when they were first made and Turn 10 has not done anything with them even when they skip being in a game (like the SW20 did) to fix them. Gamers may have a pretty short term memory on most things; but being actively lied to to temper criticism isn't usually one of them. See: Variations of "Game Freak lied" trending on Twitter worldwide when Sword and Shield came out over what was pretty much the same thing (ie. developer defends backlash against tons of cut content by saying it was redone from scratch to higher quality standards, people get the game and find that it's identical to the previous game and that the developer was lying the entire time).



I also reject the insinuation that outside of those 5 (or whatever the full number may be) truly bastard children that Forza's cars are all accurate as a point of comparison to PD's output. Turn 10's track record doesn't support that statement enough to make it without scrutiny, and I can think of one car off the top of my head (the C4) that they seemingly completely remodeled as a different trim level and (despite being DLC) screwed it up again anyway in similar ways to how the 360-era model was poor (which again makes me wonder whether they actually remodeled it or just touched it up into a different car and sold it as DLC and thus justified all the backlash against FM5 about that exact issue; though I haven't had Forza 4 in years so I can't directly compare them myself). You also still have cars that in real life were identical in the underlying body shell that clearly had different bases when they were recreated in the game as different models (like the GM A-Platform cars). The painting of Turn 10's uneven asset quality as a relic of the days before they claimed to have started over with FM5 has not been borne out in reality.


I know it'd be great to have 100% of the cars in perfect quality, and a lot of people like to say "quality over quantity", but truthfully when it's only a handful of cars out of almost 800 that are truly inaccurate, isn't that pretty much quality and quantity?
In the context of the OP's questions, no it's not. "Gran Turismo has just over 300, how is it possible, what's the secret that PD need to be in on so that GT can match the Forza prowess?"

It's possible for Forza to have so many more cars because PD actually started from scratch (or at least did a far more convincing job than Turn 10 did) for the previous console generation and have always built their assets to a higher quality standard/closer attention to detail than Turn 10 anyway; and Turn 10 said they did to stop the backlash against Forza 5 but actually just ported stuff from the 360 and modified it (or didn't, for a handful of them) while also making new stuff as time went on.





Put another way, the actual answer to OP's question is that PD's models look better, have always looked better and seemingly take longer to make as a result; and they actually seemed to have ripped the bandage off and started from scratch with the PS4/Xbone console generation instead of just paying lip service towards doing so when people complained at them. That isn't to say that there aren't examples of PD models that have gaffes in them (like the Premium C5 in the PS3 games, or that one that was discovered to have trademarks for a scale model on the underside of it in GT5) or that the Standard Cars thing wasn't an absolute joke; but the argument that Turn 10 don't still have problems balancing on the quality/quantity tightrope (or that their struggles with it also haven't infected the game structure) is facetious.
The player needs to make the determination themselves if whatever the car count is in GT7 is too low to justify the higher quality in comparison to the probably higher number but also almost certainly more fast and loose attention to detail in Forza 8.
 
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8,674
United States
Marin County
I could probably name around 100 cars that have inaccurate, or in some cases plain low quality (Ferrari 360CS) modeling to my eyes. They almost all fall in the 90s/00s era or 60s era, because a bulk of those cars were modeled for FM1-FM4. For instance, basically all of the pre-FM5 Ferraris too don't look right. I'm tempted to say any asset that pre-dates FM5 is of suspect quality. They have genuinely fixed a few, I can think of the Acura Integra Type R, Acura NSX and Ferrari F40 & Enzo off the top of my head. Most of the cars are probably 90% right, but even 90% is not really good enough, IMO. Like the FD RX-7 (both versions) is 90% right, but you can tell it's not 100% right and it drives me crazy. Here's the Spirit R in real life:

wj0jegY.jpg


here's PD's rendition:
MKdGj54.jpg


and here's T10/PGs version:
T1WQvuB.jpg


It's not like it its unrecognizable, but the particular shape of the front fascia is wrong. It's too pointy. The auxiliary lights below the headlights are too big. The curvature of the various inlets is too sharp. The license plate "box" is way too big. The lower airdam is too rectalinear. Looking back at the rest of the car, you can see the A-pillars don't have a comparable level of detail and finesse as the GT model and they are too wide. I don't believe the Spirit R is one of the cars regularly pointed out as being incorrect, because its much closer. But it's still wrong.

Another one I never see mentioned is the TVR Sagaris. The Forza model is way, way too wide.

Real life:
y2e1oc4vgp051.jpg


Forza:
EhQxZHaWAAAaEbV.jpg


This one is approaching not even looking like the same car because the proportions are totally different from the real thing.
 
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