How much Horsepower do certain F1 cars have?

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12sec. Civic

12sec. Civic

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My dad bought me a magazine called F1. I was reading part of it where they mentioned that the Williams FW25 is producing around 910hp. They also mentioned that the Renault is producing somewhere around 790hp.


What do some of the other cars produce? If anyone knows where I could get a list, I would love you forever!
 
Such information is a jealously-guarded secret.

Common wisdom suggests that BMW is marginally ahead of Ferrari, and they're both in the region that you speak of.

Mercedes have made giant strides in recent months, as their engine was definitely down on power in 2002. They're a bit behind the top two, but if you see a drag contest between them, then a Williams or Ferrari will not skip away. Look for Mercedes to be in the region of 880.

Toyota are probably fourth, their RVX03 engine is clearly very powerful, probably somewhere around 870bhp, but it's difficult to tell because the young team aren't really getting the best from the car. Panis did say that it was MUCH better than the Honda unit he drove last year, which is probably equal-measures truth/pr bs.

Cosworth are probably fifth, but Honda would be running them close, especially as they (Honda) have also been making big strides on power in recent weeks, hence the blowups in Melbourne. They're probably both around the 850 mark.

Renault aren't that far behind all this. I think they were massively down on power in some races last year, especially at Imola, where the car really seemed to be struggling. But they are there or thereabouts in terms of speed trap times, and that (coupled with laptimes) can be a fairly good indication of engine power. Plus, if it were 120bhp down on the top-line engines, you'd find Renault fighting with the Saubers a lot more often. I would think they're in the region of 820-830bhp.

This is principally conjecture, and is based on having followed F1 intensively for a number of years. Every so often a piece of information comes out and you can use this to add to previous bits to come to a current complete picture, that still may well be wrong.
 
I think Giles is along the right route when it comes to HP figures. It's top-secret stuff, only the customer engine suppliers give out figures because they'd like to land contracts with other teams...estimates, that's the best you'll get.

There were times in around 1985-1987 where BMW's little 4cyl.-turbo put out an estimated 1000hp (reports of 1200-1300 seem to be hyperbole, though); Honda was right nearby with up to 950-850 depending on the circuit. Renault and Ferrari were right up there, but not as competitive or as reliable during the turbo era. Until 1987, you had unlimited turbo boost pressure, which meant you could dial in as much power as the engine could handle during qualifying until the engine blew up like a sack of hand-grenades!

This all changed; the FIA wanted to phase-out turbos because of safety concerns (although lap speeds resumed the same pace around 1990 or so!) and the costs of engines (ease of rebuilding a 3.5L NA engine was purportedly easier?). Of course, the FIA was right for about half a season.

Generally, the torque curve is very different; maximum torque is achieved at or near the engine's redline in today's 3.0L engines. The rev limit can be at a staggering 18,000rpm!
 
Originally posted by pupik
I think Giles is along the right route when it comes to HP figures. It's top-secret stuff, only the customer engine suppliers give out figures because they'd like to land contracts with other teams...estimates, that's the best you'll get.
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... and the customer engines are by definition at least a year old.

Originally posted by pupik
There were times in around 1985-1987 where BMW's little 4cyl.-turbo put out an estimated 1000hp (reports of 1200-1300 seem to be hyperbole, though); Honda was right nearby with up to 950-850 depending on the circuit. Renault and Ferrari were right up there, but not as competitive or as reliable during the turbo era. Until 1987, you had unlimited turbo boost pressure, which meant you could dial in as much power as the engine could handle during qualifying until the engine blew up like a sack of hand-grenades!

This all changed; the FIA wanted to phase-out turbos because of safety concerns (although lap speeds resumed the same pace around 1990 or so!) and the costs of engines (ease of rebuilding a 3.5L NA engine was purportedly easier?). Of course, the FIA was right for about half a season.
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I remember you could get about 5 laps out of a turbo motor before it went bang! Also, I think it started to get a bit dangerous when the teams were firing large quantities of fuel into the turbo housing itself! :eek:

Originally posted by pupik
Generally, the torque curve is very different; maximum torque is achieved at or near the engine's redline in today's 3.0L engines. The rev limit can be at a staggering 18,000rpm!
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Sound analysis has the BMW doing over 19,000 in qualifying. That's simply mad. I read an acceleration calculation for the pistons somewhere, I'll find it again.
 
I think gilles is on the money with his estimates. Maybe not the numbers, but the rank of hierarchy.

I thought I heard that BMW pushed past 20k rpm for USA GP last year? It was past some milestone, maybe it was 19k.

And I thought the old turbo brabus BMW engine from the 80s was making something like 1400hp (like you said, maybe hyperbole, but then the actual figure would have been higher than 1000). Didnt that thing just pull away from everyone at the starts? But ofcourse, then...................... boom.
 
Originally posted by 12sec. Civic
I remember watching last years SPEED channel recap of the 2002 F1 season. Ralf Schumacher's Williams revved to 19,500rpm.
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It was actually 19,050 at Monza in qualifying, and it was on Montoya's record setting lap.

As for the 1983 BMW 1.5L I4 Turbo, it probably did infact produce 1,400hp in qualifying, because I was watching Legends of Motorsport on Speed one day, and they were interviewing someone that was on the team that developed that engine. They set it up for qualifying on their engine dyno, and it measured 1,200hp, but the thing is he said their dyno only measured up to 1,200hp, so I think 1,400hp was quite possible for that engine in qualifying.
 
Heh - I saw this great interview with Berger a couple of months about some young thing they had testing the BMW Williams who'd done some fast lap. Berger made the comment that the cars were too easy to drive now, what with traction control, power steering and semi auto gearboxes.

He recalled the old turbo days where he said the cars would wheelspin in fifth! Ay carumba!
 
I read something about the BMW turbo engine of the 80s a while ago, I'm sorry I can't remember it better. Apparently Brabham used to run a 6 speed gearbox and only use top gear when they had the 1400bhp grenade qualifying engine in. For the race they would only use 1st to 5th as they were several hundred bhp down in order to try and last the race distance.

After each race the gearboxes and driveshafts were binned because (in the days before carbon components) they would be stretched by the sheer power of the engine.

Piquet said that the car had so much power and wheelspin that he wouldn't power out of a corner on qualifying boost, but had to wait until the car was pointing down the straight before lighting up the rear tyres.

The 4 cylinder engine block was based on a cut down 6 cylinder unit from a F2 engine, and was based on a road car block. They used to get hold of second hand run in engines from BMW road cars and modify them for racing.
 
Nico Rosberg was the one testing the williams car I believe. Or that was his fathers name.

For the BMW williams engine, I swear when I was at the USGP I saw or heard somewhere that the BMW engines would break 20k during qualifying. Maybe it was wrong, but it would be interesting to find the source. Remember that was the second to last race of the year.

Piquets car was crazy back then. I have heard all of the stories. I have been looking for quite some time for a poster of his car. Possibly catching air, like it often did.
 
Originally posted by advanR
Nico Rosberg was the one testing the williams car I believe. Or that was his fathers name.
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You're correct the first time. Nico is the son, Keke is the father.
 
Originally posted by Wastegate
The 4 cylinder engine block was based on a cut down 6 cylinder unit from a F2 engine, and was based on a road car block. They used to get hold of second hand run in engines from BMW road cars and modify them for racing.
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There's also stories the the BMW engine blocks had around 50-80K miles on them before using them for F1 service; the engine bloack would get stronger as time went on, supposedly.

I question the 1200hp claims because in '83 (when the engine was in its prime, winning the dreiver's championship for Nelson Piquet), the turbos were producing "only" 750-800 or so...then the power just escalated to crazy levels through 1987. It's quite possible nobody really used 1000 in race trim, becuase the engine/turbo wouldn't last.

I'd estimate the race engines had around 800-900, depending on the circuit (You couldn't use all the power in Monaco since you were in 6th gear only twice on the circuit, for example). Also, the boost could get a cockpit adjustment for a little more power, so I suppose a 100+hp blast could get figured into the equation.

Of course, the fuel limits at the time (no refueling and a tank size limit) and the aforementioned reliablity issue meant you had to choose wisely to use the boost pressure adjustment (once or twice a race at most).

Those turbo days were just a little nuts, when you think of it...ah, but that was the 1980's...excessive and wasteful at times!
 
Originally posted by pupik
Those turbo days were just a little nuts, when you think of it...ah, but that was the 1980's...excessive and wasteful at times!
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Indeed. I mean, that was when they thought that 500bhp in a tiny little steel spaceframe with a wafer-thin GRP body counted as a safe rally car...
 

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