How to make the CLK LM pointy and not understeery

[sejtur]

Hi guys! Before update 1.13, the CLK LM was a bit understeery already, but now it is way worse.

I tried tuning the suspension to make it go away, but it still didn't go back to the feel before the update. It feels more like a boat, with the steering in the back. It doesn't react well to my input, doesn't feel pointy. And this is the case in all stages of a corner. I'm using it with 127 kg ballast and RH tires for the sardegna race, stock otherwise.

I'm not a tuning expert, so can someone help me to get this car balanced, preferably with slight predictable oversteer? Thanks in advance!

 

[danardif1]

What changes did you make to the suspension? Also, what are the Stability figures on the left side of the setup screen above the Rotational G ones? These are your best indicators before taking to the track about what the balance of the car will be...

Some things I'd recommend instantly to help move the balance...

• Increase rake - This should help give the car more rotation in slow speed corners
• Soften the front springs - sometimes to help change the grip balance you need to change something at the opposite end of the car. Softening the front springs to give the front end more grip helps move that balance even if you change nothing at the rear
• Look at your wing settings and see what taking rear wing away does to the stability figure...

 

[sejtur]

What changes did you make to the suspension? Also, what are the Stability figures on the left side of the setup screen above the Rotational G ones? These are your best indicators before taking to the track about what the balance of the car will be...

Some things I'd recommend instantly to help move the balance...

• Increase rake - This should help give the car more rotation in slow speed corners
• Soften the front springs - sometimes to help change the grip balance you need to change something at the opposite end of the car. Softening the front springs to give the front end more grip helps move that balance even if you change nothing at the rear
• Look at your wing settings and see what taking rear wing away does to the stability figure...

Thanks for the advice! This is what I changed. Do the stability numbers mean that when the number is 0, there is perfect balance, and minus is understeer?

 

[danardif1]

So with the Stability numbers you've also got what the balance is in brackets

closer to 0.00 is more neutral, positive numbers are oversteer balance, negative numbers are understeer balance.

I'd say from my experience tweaking these figures, you tend to want a more neutral balance at low speed to have that front end turn-in and rotation but not to extremes, and then a slightly more understeer balance for the higher speed one because you don't want the car swapping ends at high speed and the overall aero grip is there to help you anyway...

 

[mirial]

Hi guys! Before update 1.13, the CLK LM was a bit understeery already, but now it is way worse.

I tried tuning the suspension to make it go away, but it still didn't go back to the feel before the update. It feels more like a boat, with the steering in the back. It doesn't react well to my input, doesn't feel pointy. And this is the case in all stages of a corner. I'm using it with 127 kg ballast and RH tires for the sardegna race, stock otherwise.

I'm not a tuning expert, so can someone help me to get this car balanced, preferably with slight predictable oversteer? Thanks in advance!

A good start would be to the following as I've had some good results with a couple of other cars:

Ride height: Lower the front as much as possible, with the rear the same progressing to 5-15mm more than the minimum value if need be. Increasing the rear ride height will create more side-bite, but will create more tyre distortion and less maximum grip.

Roll bars: Set the roll bars to 4 (front) 6-7 (rear)

Dampers: Set the front and rear dampers between average and below average (to create some pre-load and to delay chassis roll).

Springs: Set the front and rear springs to below average to create some pre-load (you need some load initially on both ends of the car to help press the tyres into the road. Too much will potentially give you less maximum grip when the car gets fully loaded up, particularly in medium and high-speed corners).

Camber: Set the camber to 1.5 front and rear. This seems to be the sweet spot between generating enough initial tyre bite into the road whilst giving you close to maximum tyre contact with the road when the car gets fully loaded up.

Toe: Set toe to zero front and rear. Some toe-in on the front will help with turn in. Adding a small amount of toe to the rear will create more stability but will help with initial turn-in. Keeping the rear at zero toe will help with the overall slip angle of the car mid-corner with less tyre scrub.

Differential: Initial: 5

Acceleration: 30

Braking: 5

Downforce: Maximum front and rear, but reduce as required depending on how the car behaves in the fast corners. Trial Mountain or Suzuka is a good test for this.

 

[sejtur]

A good start would be to the following as I've had some good results with a couple of other cars:

Ride height: Lower the front as much as possible, with the rear the same progressing to 5-15mm more than the minimum value if need be. Increasing the rear ride height will create more side-bite, but will create more tyre distortion and less maximum grip.

Roll bars: Set the roll bars to 4 (front) 6-7 (rear)

Dampers: Set the front and rear dampers between average and below average (to create some pre-load and to delay chassis roll).

Springs: Set the front and rear springs to below average to create some pre-load (you need some load initially on both ends of the car to help press the tyres into the road. Too much will potentially give you less maximum grip when the car gets fully loaded up, particularly in medium and high-speed corners).

Camber: Set the camber to 1.5 front and rear. This seems to be the sweet spot between generating enough initial tyre bite into the road whilst giving you close to maximum tyre contact with the road when the car gets fully loaded up.

Toe: Set toe to zero front and rear. Some toe-in on the front will help with turn in. Adding a small amount of toe to the rear will create more stability but will help with initial turn-in. Keeping the rear at zero toe will help with the overall slip angle of the car mid-corner with less tyre scrub.

Differential: Initial: 5

Acceleration: 30

Braking: 5

Downforce: Maximum front and rear, but reduce as required depending on how the car behaves in the fast corners. Trial Mountain or Suzuka is a good test for this.

Thank you for this detailed response! With this setup it handles better, less understeer, but still quite a lot of it. The stability figure still points to understeer as well, it doesn't seem to be able to go into positive (oversteer) figures, no matter what you do with the suspension or wings. Low speed is -0.18 and high speed -1.00.

Either this car was very understeery IRL or update 1.13 made it unable to change the balance with setup...

 

[mirial]

Thank you for this detailed response! With this setup it handles better, less understeer, but still quite a lot of it. The stability figure still points to understeer as well, it doesn't seem to be able to go into positive (oversteer) figures, no matter what you do with the suspension or wings. Low speed is -0.18 and high speed -1.00.

Either this car was very understeery IRL or update 1.13 made it unable to change the balance with setup...

No problem. From trying this car in past releases, I recall the same experiences. Having watched that very car in the FIA GT series on TV in 1998 and trackside at Donington, it's possible PD haven't really been that bothered what it does! IRL, it was a damn good car.

You can try minimising the front springs, and then also set the damper return to maximum. This well help lessen and delay the weight transfer over the front wheels further. Failing that, you could try reducing the downforce of the rear wing. I'd recommend using Suzuka as a test track because it brings out the worst in handling characteristics, so if a car delivers very good lap times there, it generally works well everywhere else.

Where do win the CLK?

 

[sejtur]

No problem. From trying this car in past releases, I recall the same experiences. Having watched that very car in the FIA GT series on TV in 1998 and trackside at Donington, it's possible PD haven't really been that bothered what it does! IRL, it was a damn good car.

You can try minimising the front springs, and then also set the damper return to maximum. This well help lessen and delay the weight transfer over the front wheels further. Failing that, you could try reducing the downforce of the rear wing. I'd recommend using Suzuka as a test track because it brings out the worst in handling characteristics, so if a car delivers very good lap times there, it generally works well everywhere else.

Where do win the CLK?

Wow that is amazing that you saw the car being raced IRL! It is a MR car, how you can not get the balance to neutral or slight oversteer is beyond me.

It was in the legendary cars at the start of april. We don't know when it will show up again. In addition to the physics, this game mechanic is seriously broken.

Anyway, when you get it, you'll hear that the engine sounds different from what you heard at Donington. It is the sound of the Le Mans version of the CLK LM, which has the cross plane crank shaft engine. I highly prefer the sound of the flat plane FIA GT engine, but it is what it is.

 

[HyperSpeeder]

I used this car in Sardegna last night and almost lapped the field. Huge grip in the corners, even with lowest downforce and highest ballast. No other modifications. Also much improved from before since it's easier on fuel now.

 

[sejtur]

I used this car in Sardegna last night and almost lapped the field. Huge grip in the corners, even with lowest downforce and highest ballast. No other modifications. Also much improved from before since it's easier on fuel now.

It’s a great car, I lap the field almost as well. Driving it just doesn’t feel nice to me because of the massive understeer, so I want to make it enjoyable to drive.

 

[danardif1]

A good start would be to the following as I've had some good results with a couple of other cars:

Ride height: Lower the front as much as possible, with the rear the same progressing to 5-15mm more than the minimum value if need be. Increasing the rear ride height will create more side-bite, but will create more tyre distortion and less maximum grip.

Roll bars: Set the roll bars to 4 (front) 6-7 (rear)

Dampers: Set the front and rear dampers between average and below average (to create some pre-load and to delay chassis roll).

Springs: Set the front and rear springs to below average to create some pre-load (you need some load initially on both ends of the car to help press the tyres into the road. Too much will potentially give you less maximum grip when the car gets fully loaded up, particularly in medium and high-speed corners).

Camber: Set the camber to 1.5 front and rear. This seems to be the sweet spot between generating enough initial tyre bite into the road whilst giving you close to maximum tyre contact with the road when the car gets fully loaded up.

Toe: Set toe to zero front and rear. Some toe-in on the front will help with turn in. Adding a small amount of toe to the rear will create more stability but will help with initial turn-in. Keeping the rear at zero toe will help with the overall slip angle of the car mid-corner with less tyre scrub.

Differential: Initial: 5

Acceleration: 30

Braking: 5

Downforce: Maximum front and rear, but reduce as required depending on how the car behaves in the fast corners. Trial Mountain or Suzuka is a good test for this.

I made these changes and took 2 seconds off my previous best in the car at Nurburgring GP, from a 1.48 to a 1.46. It's not a massive change to the balance overall but definitely has more front end.

 

[mirial]

I made these changes and took 2 seconds off my previous best in the car at Nurburgring GP, from a 1.48 to a 1.46. It's not a massive change to the balance overall but definitely has more front end.

Unfortunately the car isn't available ATM, so I'm unable to see how much of a difference these changes make out of curiosity.

As the handling most likely isn't really modelled on the real car, it's possible you could use some trickery to get a decent balance.

Back in GTS, I remember once some of the very quickest Japanese drivers using extreme rear ride height (relative to the front end, in order to get tyre distortion and reduced maximum grip) in combination with extreme rear toe-in on a Super GT GTR. The effect was that the rear end was constantly drifting with very progressive rear end grip which enabled you to carry massive speed into the turns and get back on the power immediately which is what you want with any set up ideally.

 

[sejtur]

Unfortunately the car isn't available ATM, so I'm unable to see how much of a difference these changes make out of curiosity.

As the handling most likely isn't really modelled on the real car, it's possible you could use some trickery to get a decent balance.

Back in GTS, I remember once some of the very quickest Japanese drivers using extreme rear ride height (relative to the front end, in order to get tyre distortion and reduced maximum grip) in combination with extreme rear toe-in on a Super GT GTR. The effect was that the rear end was constantly drifting with very progressive rear end grip which enabled you to carry massive speed into the turns and get back on the power immediately which is what you want with any set up ideally.

I’d like to see what you can do with it. It’s probably going to be available in around a month.

 

[danardif1]

Unfortunately the car isn't available ATM, so I'm unable to see how much of a difference these changes make out of curiosity.

As the handling most likely isn't really modelled on the real car, it's possible you could use some trickery to get a decent balance.

Back in GTS, I remember once some of the very quickest Japanese drivers using extreme rear ride height (relative to the front end, in order to get tyre distortion and reduced maximum grip) in combination with extreme rear toe-in on a Super GT GTR. The effect was that the rear end was constantly drifting with very progressive rear end grip which enabled you to carry massive speed into the turns and get back on the power immediately which is what you want with any set up ideally.

I did a 12 hr team enduro at Spa in Gr3 cars on GTS and we set our Jag up just like this to try and overcome the inherent understeer in both the Jag and GTS in general. GT7 is way more realistic in that sense.

 

[sejtur]

Unfortunately the car isn't available ATM, so I'm unable to see how much of a difference these changes make out of curiosity.

As the handling most likely isn't really modelled on the real car, it's possible you could use some trickery to get a decent balance.

Back in GTS, I remember once some of the very quickest Japanese drivers using extreme rear ride height (relative to the front end, in order to get tyre distortion and reduced maximum grip) in combination with extreme rear toe-in on a Super GT GTR. The effect was that the rear end was constantly drifting with very progressive rear end grip which enabled you to carry massive speed into the turns and get back on the power immediately which is what you want with any set up ideally.

The CLK-LM is now in the legend cars dealership!