How to work on cars with grip below the average?

[Lazy Liquid]

I´m not asking for a tune, what i am doing actualy is general tips to work on cars with very low grip.

Even with large knowledge on average grip cars and grip monsters, i like to try the underdog models, even if they are standard with low quality. For exemple, my last attempt was the Z32 2x2 seater Twin Turbo, just because imo it looks better than the premium.

The Z32 premium itself is not a too friendly to grip, but the 2x2 model slides like butter. I tried to downgrade the HP, lowered the LSD numbers, low rear camber, high oposite toe valors, higher dampers... yet still haven´t enough grip to keep up with Rate B cars.

Any clue?
I´m having the same issue with some other cars that i really liked to make at least decent.

 

[xlDevontelx]

Throttle control works wonders.

 

[Streeto]

Interchange parts to get lower torque, add weight, or maybe keep stock weight with nothing on the ballast.

If your car's chassis is not very grippy, you probably don't want to go full out on the power/torque.

Tuning only goes so far of course.

 

[twitcher]

As the other guys said

Lower torque, as well as power. Lower torque makes the throttle less responsive, so slightly easier to feather.

Lower rear ride height / raise front height - this moves CoG rearward.

Increase overall ride hight helps add grip everywhere. Slamming a car in GT6 makes it handle like crap.

Lower rear spring rates, along with lower rear damper compression.

Zero rear camber (you knew that was coming )

A good transmission tune can work wonders. Spread your gearing out a little bit, make the gears a little longer. My transmission tune is the main way I try to smooth out my throttle work.

Like @Streeto said, try leaving stock weight, or just stage 1 reduction.

Or, if you want to change the weight balance, do stage 3, but add enough weight to get close to stock weight. Then position it towards the rear. I find about 25% - 40% to work the best, depending on the car. I don't like putting too much weight all the way at 50%, as I find the rear gains too much inertia during transitions.

 

[Natalia90]

S-Chassis have lower grip, I like Sil80 for a good angle without grip :

 

[TH137Z]

My celica xx seems faster than even some of the normal grade drift cars on smaller tracks. I added 200kg to the rear which still gave it a weight balance of 55:45 and it had a ton of grip. @GTGranpa has seen my celica in action and couldnt keep up with it. Problem with adding weight to the rear is it will give the car more inertia, so I recommend raising the rear sway bar to compensate for the extra weight. The other comments made by @xlDevontelx , @Streeto , and @twitcher are also spot on.

 

[monsterGAUZ]

Setups that provide good throttle response and low wheelspin

 

[ACGreen86]

@TH137Z My Celica XX is super slow I run it without extra weight on the rear though so that's sorta expected, especially with that crazy 63/37 balance!

 

[TH137Z]

PD have definitely wrecked the car, also they chose the wrong model, which had factory cheese cutters.......

 

[alpacaflip]

With older cars I run them as light as possible with low power. Usually with all the weight out I will run 50kg at 50% to the rear, but that is the highest I will go kg wise. Same with the cars that just have no grip like the Genesis, because of they skinny tires they come with from the factory.

 

[GTGranpa]

Yup. I agree with most everything writen. The more stock the car is, the faster/grippier it will be, GENERALLY speaking. A stock Supra, for instance, (or closer to stock) has tones of grip.
I never used to add weight or mess with the weight balance on cars in GT5, mainly because I enjoy the individual feeling each car has to offer. Diferent weight balances, diferente chassis behaviours etc. But in GT6 things are a bit diferent in the whole drift scene, i think. On the begining everyone was struggling, but gradually people have found the "glitches" (it's still a game, even one with very realistic physics) that make the cars handle better, and most of all...faster. So I've joined the "add weight to back" bandwagon. I don't like it, but it had to be done or I would be even slower. Most, if not all of my GT6 drift cars have now added ballast to 50% back, depending on the car, the original weight balance, etc. On some it's just weight reduction lev. 1, on others it's 2 and on others 3. On a couple it's even weight reduction 3 and 200 Kg on 50% back, wich is something i quite frankly don't like (completely changes the original car's behaviour), but...had to be done. I would say it works on...95% of cars.

My achilles heel is the Soarer/SC300. I love the car, i love the absurd amount of angle it gets, but...i can't make it fast. I've tried most everything...for me, it's the less grippiest car of all I use. Wheelspin for daaaaaaayssss.... :/
(My next move is going to be get it down to stock or very close to stock setup)

 

[TH137Z]

Yup. I agree with most everything writen. The more stock the car is, the faster/grippier it will be, GENERALLY speaking. A stock Supra, for instance, (or closer to stock) has tones of grip.
I never used to add weight or mess with the weight balance on cars in GT5, mainly because I enjoy the individual feeling each car has to offer. Diferent weight balances, diferente chassis behaviours etc. But in GT6 things are a bit diferent in the whole drift scene, i think. On the begining everyone was struggling, but gradually people have found the "glitches" (it's still a game, even one with very realistic physics) that make the cars handle better, and most of all...faster. So I've joined the "add weight to back" bandwagon. I don't like it, but it had to be done or I would be even slower. Most, if not all of my GT6 drift cars have now added ballast to 50% back, depending on the car, the original weight balance, etc. On some it's just weight reduction lev. 1, on others it's 2 and on others 3. On a couple it's even weight reduction 3 and 200 Kg on 50% back, wich is something i quite frankly don't like (completely changes the original car's behaviour), but...had to be done. I would say it works on...95% of cars.

My achilles heel is the Soarer/SC300. I love the car, i love the absurd amount of angle it gets, but...i can't make it fast. I've tried most everything...for me, it's the less grippiest car of all I use. Wheelspin for daaaaaaayssss.... :/
(My next move is going to be get it down to stock or very close to stock setup)

I'm running a szr supra with 280hp as a missile. I've only done typical p Plater mods to it. No weight in the rear at all, and it keeps up with the spirit r type a rx7 around most corners.

Have you tried running the stock turbo in it aswell??? My z32 has over 500hp with no turbo mods, and its pretty quick already.

 

[GTGranpa]

I'm running a szr supra with 280hp as a missile. I've only done typical p Plater mods to it. No weight in the rear at all, and it keeps up with the spirit r type a rx7 around most corners.

Have you tried running the stock turbo in it aswell??? My z32 has over 500hp with no turbo mods, and its pretty quick already.

The N/A MKIV...it's gripppppyyy yes i have one. Also low hp. Very "pointy" car.
Idk bro, I'm gonna try to...maybee get it closer to stock and go from there...the Soarer.

 

[t3kc0h]

...my last attempt was the Z32 2x2 seater Twin Turbo, just because imo it looks better than the premium.

The Z32 premium itself is not a too friendly to grip, but the 2x2 model slides like butter. I tried to downgrade the HP, lowered the LSD numbers, low rear camber, high oposite toe valors, higher dampers... yet still haven´t enough grip to keep up with Rate B cars...

I did what nobody else would do. I SOFTENED the suspension, (Down to 6 or 7). I made it SOFTER in the rear so it'll grip nicely and I used a Low RPM turbo, and sport exhaust, it's at like 566 for HP or something, and 600+ ft lbs of torque.

Edit: No toe and minimal camber as well.

 

[hairLAD]

I bring up the horsepower, leave it stock weight and set ballast to 50% and increase weight until its at 50:50. Soften suspension and increase values until it handles right. And if nothing else works, softer tyres. I mean, I've a 350bhp Eunos Roadster on CH and a Supra at 944bhp on SH. Downforce is useful too

 

[M3BIMMER 2012]

what everyone else said should work. ALWAYS tune toe angle though, this is the 'Grip Adjuster' when tuning a car

 

[Tetsu_X]

what everyone else said should work. ALWAYS tune toe angle though, this is the 'Grip Adjuster' when tuning a car

Well, although you're looking into the right direction, your statement could be rephrased better. I, myself, would not call it "Grip Adjuster" since

you're not really giving grip to the tires . . .


As far as my understanding/experience goes, toe angle acts as giving forward inertia. While greater the positive number is, the more forward inertia

you'll get hence the the greater the negative # is, the opposite happens.

For instance, you using a 240 and the car feels perfect but still kinda slow or cannot catch to others in his class; in this case, what you can do is add

little by little positive toe and test how it feels. While you're at it, there's a high chance you'll have to adjust other components in your suspension and

perhaps weight distribution, as well.


Using the same car above, but this time instead of not been able catch to others or think that you're slow, you feel the car is snappy while drifting

and/or won't slide smoothly and you know almost everything is dialed in, what can you do? Well, you could refer to the front toe and slide it to the

negative values, little by little too, testing it every single time. Here, as explained above, you'll be getting rid of forward inertia. Moreover, you could

also decrease the positive values in the rear toe to get the feel/performance desired.


I hope this helps everyone interested in this thread. *thumbs up*

 

[twitcher]

Well, although you're looking into the right direction, your statement could be rephrased better. I, myself, would not call it "Grip Adjuster" since

you're not really giving grip to the tires . . .


As far as my understanding/experience goes, toe angle acts as giving forward inertia. While greater the positive number is, the more forward inertia

you'll get hence the the greater the negative # is, the opposite happens.

For instance, you using a 240 and the car feels perfect but still kinda slow or cannot catch to others in his class; in this case, what you can do is add

little by little positive toe and test how it feels. While you're at it, there's a high chance you'll have to adjust other components in your suspension and

perhaps weight distribution, as well.


Using the same car above, but this time instead of not been able catch to others or think that you're slow, you feel the car is snappy while drifting

and/or won't slide smoothly and you know almost everything is dialed in, what can you do? Well, you could refer to the front toe and slide it to the

negative values, little by little too, testing it every single time. Here, as explained above, you'll be getting rid of forward inertia. Moreover, you could

also decrease the positive values in the rear toe to get the feel/performance desired.


I hope this helps everyone interested in this thread. *thumbs up*

Overall I agree with what you're saying, but there's a few details that I've understood differently.

Edit: fat fingered the Post button

Edit 2: to finish...

Increasing positive (+) rear toe will generate more forward bite in a straight line. So like you said, if you have a car which feels sluggish off the line or exiting corners, increasing + rear toe can help.

Increasing + rear toe beyond s certain point can have negative effects. One, it can make the rear very snappy during the change from grip to slip, and vica-versa. Two, too much + rear toe can slow the car down mid-drift (the effect increases as your drift angle increases). There's no "magic number"...but I find the max + rear toe I can run is about +0.50 on most cars, +0.60 on a select few.

Some people run higher values than that, but I don't really know how the rest of their tune is set up.

I also know a few people who run negative (-) values for the rear toe. It makes the car quite unstable in a straight line, but once you are sitting at angle mid-drift, the rear becomes very planted. I'm pretty sure this only works in GT, as I've never heard of running (-) rear in rear life.



Your description of front toe is where I have some issue.

I run negative (-) front toe on all my cars. The way I've found front toe to work is that as you increase (-) front toe, the front becomes more responsive. By this, I mean you get quicker reaction from the front, with smaller inputs.

So, when you say "if the car feels snappy, add more (-) front toe," I would have to disagree with that.

First, it would depend when the car is snappy. If the car is snappy mid-drift to exit, I would suggest lowering the (+) toe in the rear. It the car feels snappy, or too responsive, when initiating, I would decrease the (-) front toe (technically, increase I guess).


And like you said, you need to keep your other adjustments in mind when adjusting the toe. Personally, toe is one of the very last things I tweak. I use it as the final adjustment to fine tune certain aspects of how the car handles at various points of a drift.

 

[M3BIMMER 2012]

Well, although you're looking into the right direction, your statement could be rephrased better. I, myself, would not call it "Grip Adjuster" since

you're not really giving grip to the tires . . .


As far as my understanding/experience goes, toe angle acts as giving forward inertia. While greater the positive number is, the more forward inertia

you'll get hence the the greater the negative # is, the opposite happens.

For instance, you using a 240 and the car feels perfect but still kinda slow or cannot catch to others in his class; in this case, what you can do is add

little by little positive toe and test how it feels. While you're at it, there's a high chance you'll have to adjust other components in your suspension and

perhaps weight distribution, as well.


Using the same car above, but this time instead of not been able catch to others or think that you're slow, you feel the car is snappy while drifting

and/or won't slide smoothly and you know almost everything is dialed in, what can you do? Well, you could refer to the front toe and slide it to the

negative values, little by little too, testing it every single time. Here, as explained above, you'll be getting rid of forward inertia. Moreover, you could

also decrease the positive values in the rear toe to get the feel/performance desired.


I hope this helps everyone interested in this thread. *thumbs up*

oh yeah tetsu, I 100% agree with you. I was just giving the guy an idea to think about.

 

[Tetsu_X]

...but I find the max + rear toe I can run is about +0.50 on most cars, +0.60 on a select few.

Some people run higher values than that, but I don't really know how the rest of their tune is set up.

I also know a few people who run negative (-) values for the rear toe. It makes the car quite unstable in a straight line, but once you are sitting at angle mid-drift, the rear becomes very planted. I'm pretty sure this only works in GT, as I've never heard of running (-) rear in rear life.

I've never used more than + 0.50 rear toe; I barely get there at times. I think max I may have done in a car could be mid 40s.

Your description of front toe is where I have some issue.

I run negative (-) front toe on all my cars. The way I've found front toe to work is that as you increase (-) front toe, the front becomes more responsive. By this, I mean you get quicker reaction from the front, with smaller inputs.

So, when you say "if the car feels snappy, add more (-) front toe," I would have to disagree with that.

First, it would depend when the car is snappy. If the car is snappy mid-drift to exit, I would suggest lowering the (+) toe in the rear. It the car feels snappy, or too responsive, when initiating, I would decrease the (-) front toe (technically, increase I guess).


And like you said, you need to keep your other adjustments in mind when adjusting the toe. Personally, toe is one of the very last things I tweak. I use it as the final adjustment to fine tune certain aspects of how the car handles at various points of a drift.

Well, I wrote all that from -for a lack of a better word/expression- experience/time on track. Just what I've felt on certain situations and how I've dealt with it. Never read an article or book about it; hence, my explanation could've been written in a different way but I did have in mind what you wrote above.