How will you evolve the best of GT's career mode?

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo Sport' started by o000o, Nov 22, 2019.

  1. o000o

    o000o

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    Like for example, probably career mode like GT4 (or GT3) that is widely considered to be the best among GTs and are wished to come back on next GTs.

    But for those that may feel that even GT4's career isn't enough and/or outdated, how will you evolve it? (probably still allowing to use every type of road and race car instead of just 1 by choosing a racing discipline).
     
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  2. ShiftingGears

    ShiftingGears

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    I must be the only one who thought GT3 sucked. The graphics were the only upgrade on GT2, and the career mode was just the same events repeated over and over and over.

    Anyway here's my high IQ recommendations;


    • Races where you don't start a mile behind the leader (radical idea for a racing game marketing itself as realistic I know). Rolling starts are fine if it resembles a real race like US road racing. Chasing the rabbit is lazy - Ridge Racer 4 was 20 years ago, PD needs to wake up to itself.
    • Variety. This means in GT League;
      • Standalone races
        • Qualifying - Some series has qualifying enabled as a default, whereas others would have a lottery system.
        • Starts would vary between rolling and grid depending on the series. Could be an option to change this however.
      • Championships
        • Some championships would have reverse grids based on previous race result or championship standing.
        • Different series would have different points systems which would reward drivers differently (consistency vs win-or-crash)
      • New Events
        • For instance, an under 2L cup vs an under 5L cup. Look at race series like improved production in Australia, there's some really good racing through the field. With the right balancing in GT this could be a very good addition. I think the reason this hasn't happened is mostly driven by GT League being thrown in as an afterthought when PD realised that most buyers of GT Sport don't use Sport Mode.
    • Better AI
      • It just needs to happen.
     
  3. KepleroGT

    KepleroGT

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    Picking different types of AI like in Arcade Mode, with Pro AI that's able to challenge even the 1%
    4h endurance races with B-Spec if you're getting bored (as a result of what I said above)
    Actual rolling starts, with cars only a few meters apart
    Championship system like in older games with bigger prizes at the end, standings and no race restarts
     
  4. seadog777

    seadog777 Premium

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    Return of Tuning Shop, second-hand car dealer and........

    CAR WASH :cheers:
     
  5. TonyJZX

    TonyJZX

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    I think 'chase the rabbit' is here to stay. Its been the case since GT5 and back then the 256mb ram thing was the issue.

    I would just love for PD to use the assets they have wisely and let us customise certain races the way we would like... ie. maybe let us define race length and sequence of tracks and make up of cars to a degree.

    I am constantly amazed/not amazed at how wilfully and consistently they neglect the cars and tracks they give us.

    They gave us great Mazda MX5 Miata N200 Touring Car... where is the race series for it? What about Group C racing? Where is the Nostaglia 2008 JGTC series? How about a modern LMP-H series? How about a 2000 era LMP challenge?

    I dont know what they're thinking... you have these awesome cars... you have a decent selection of tracks... make use of the great artists and models you already have.
     
  6. Rinsky

    Rinsky Premium

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    You have to keep in mind that when GTS launched PD wanted to do away with all the single player parts of the game.
    It was heavily promoted as online racing only and they bragged on the fact that all the car collecting days were over. PD created GTS with every intention on leaving the mass majority of their fanbase behind in favor of this new direction.

    It wasn't until PD seen the horrible sales GTS was generating when they finally admitted the massive mistake they had made. Then they rushed to put in single player content to try and get back the majority of their fanbase.

    Career Mode will probably never get any better in GTS than what we have now.
    But without a doubt I think PD learned their lesson the hard way and once GT7 is released we will probably have one of the best Career Modes to date for a GT title.
     
  7. fastone371

    fastone371

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    And yet PD forces this atrocious penalty system on us, do they not realize the design of it is also a mistake?
     
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  8. Rinsky

    Rinsky Premium

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    I think they probably do but some people just have a problem admitting when they are wrong.
    The penalty system is not costing PD customers/money or at least not enough for them to make a change because that would be an admission of guilt on their part.
    So it doesn't matter how bad the penalty system is or how many people complain about it because the majority of people who are into Sport Mode just keep going back for more it.
    When dealing with a company as stubborn & set in their ways as PD is then that's enough for them not to make any major changes to the penalty system.
     
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  9. o000o

    o000o

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    So, so far the suggestions here are only in-race solutions like the standard "chase the rabbit" or simply the AI... No one asks for other things too like new structure? Something that hadn't been done in GT like more motorsport involvement in motorsport event (probably not current horrible penalty system)? Actual point to point rally?

    Not being told on any of the infos, but actually there's a difference on GT3's Beginner/Amateur/Professional of the same event; like obviously stronger lineup - in Professional version of FF Challenge you are battling higher end FF cars like Spoon Civic Type R unlike Beginner version's Demio. Probably those with similar lineups like Type R Meeting has the more tuned cards in Professional version. But yeah the menu is misleading as an exact same event because unlike in GT1/GT2, you can see the lineup and their car's HP in the former, and the HP limit in the latter. GT3 should've revamped the menu system not to give misleading info.

    Aside of that, I always wanted to enjoy type of cars in every tier, like early GTs do and hoped it can be implemented in newer GTs too (it stopped in GT4, only the Special Conditions event having trait like that). Like MR event is divided into low (MR-S level), mid (BMW i8 level), and high tier (FXX level) of that car type (MR cars)

    I don't think a full GT game should be restricted to only "GT League" as true career. BTW Qualifying existed in early GT game...dunno why it was removed. Also Championships exist in every GT game except GT Sport.

    I'm asking specifically about the races and structures of it btw.

    And yet PD also says online takes only like 15% of the game or something. Liars once more.... I think yeah GTS has no hope in career mode, but aren't the players here also already think offline Career is outdated and that with how fun online is they would never play offline again? (or this is GT's AI problem).
     
  10. Rinsky

    Rinsky Premium

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    There is no doubt Career Mode in GTS has no hope right along with people's wishes that something will be done to the car grouping in this game because an honest Career Mode won't work without it.
    But Career Mode players and online players are two different groups of people with Career Mode/single player being the vast majority of the GT fanbase.
    The people who really care about online racing could care less about what changes are made to Career Mode because they will most likely never touch it.
    The same goes with the people who really care about single player mode as most of them have never even watched the required videos to race online.

    A change in the AI difficulty could persuade some online racers to play Career Mode but only if it was a serious challenge but it would never replace their online play.

    But your vast majority of players want a Career Mode that has some kind of purpose or progression to it.
     
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  11. Draggon

    Draggon

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    IMO it's twofold. I mainly played online, but stopped doing the Sport Races because of the penalty changes. I found the first iteration somewhat tolerable, but with each penalty "update" it got worse. I got sick and tired of driving in my mirror, trying to avoid the folks running up the back of me and giving ME the penalty. And yes, career mode is outdated and equally as bad. We all know the AI problems. It's challenging, but not in a good way. I've found the single races to be the best. If the AI in career races exhibited the same behavior they do in single races, offline would be much better.
     
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  12. Rinsky

    Rinsky Premium

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    I like both single player & online racing to an extent.

    Single player

    Im like most people you will hear on this issue I want a more structured approach to Career Mode.
    I want to start off with the cheapest slowest car and work my way up along the rankings within Career Mode. Let your imagination run wild to fill in the blanks in between the Start & End of Career Mode. As the possibilities are endless to make it exciting and challenging along the way.
    It should not be something people can complete quickly and should keep players engaged for years.
    Career Mode should also be setup to use every Street/Road Car in the game and have fun while doing it.

    Online

    PD could do away with the Sport Mode/FIA races today and it would not effect me in the slightest.
    The structure of those events are not my cup of tea at all.
    I spend 99% of my online racing in the lobby section doing 1.5 to 2 hour long endurance races. This is how I enjoy in my online play and something Sport Mode/FIA just refuses to match. I have no interest in doing short lap races that promote bad racing habits.

    To get me more involved in their online racing I would like to see class specific championship events like GT4 only & GT3 only with race times being an hour or longer.
    This mixed bag of cars classes being used from race to race is not for me.
    Right now it feels like PD is cramming to much into a few races.

    There is absolutely no reason PD can't make the next GT title with a much more elaborate and competitive online/offline mode. Something for everyone.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2019
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  13. Silver Arrows

    Silver Arrows Premium

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    The problem with a 'new structure' for a GT career mode is that the 'classic' GT formula has already been done to perfection for nearly a decade now: Forza Motorsport 4. The way that the game was structured, with a career mode that allowed people to work up in divisions, and then the event list (which was what 95% of players did anyway) allowed you to tick things off at your own leisure. The problem is that sort of structure to the career mode (specifically, the grid based event list) doesn't work unless you have a vast amount of content and races that are different enough for you to bother with. We've already had a game this year where this sort of single player mode didn't work out at all: GRID 2019. Then again, that's because of that game's utter lack of content, but you can't expect people to continue doing the same races, on the same tracks, over and over and expect it to be fun, even if the racing is exciting from corner to corner. So now we're left with what we have in Sport, which is to say, stuff to pass the time when you don't feel like dealing with the rigmarole of Sport Mode, or you need to farm for credits.

    That being said, for a GT campaign to actually get me interested in playing the game other then just for a few weeks and then going to something else, there needs to be structure. At minimum, there should be a sense of progression and scale - something that GT has done well, as most of the games up to 5 have shown. Starter car, race, gradually work your way up into better vehicles. However, those that mention the chase the rabbit style of racing as a detriment are correct - GT desperately needs actual AI that fight and actually put up a challenge. Telling me to handicap myself by driving in a much slower vehicle while the leader in a car three classes up on me zooms away isn't a challenge. Look to the GRID games again: even GRID 2019 has AI that manages to give you a run for your money on higher difficulties, and actually proves to be something other then an AI to be passed, or in the case of the vast majority of GT races in single player going back to the first game, someone to be rammed into without penalty. I'm not interested in chase the rabbit scenarios, even the game is everything that makes 'classic' GT what it is.
     
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  14. o000o

    o000o

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    Wouldn't it means removing career mode won't affect the game because every player only likes online now?

    Isn't that basically old GT's GT Mode, "continue doing the same races on the same tracks"? Only slight difference is car lineups that your starter car is slow.
     
  15. fastone371

    fastone371

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    Along with a structured career mode it would be nice to see PD make the license tests tougher, or at least getting golds should be. I'm guessing that most who have played the GT series before were able to Gold most tests in 3 tries at the most, I remember spending hours getting a gold on just one test in GT1 because I wanted the prize car for all golds. It was frustrating missing the gold by .001 countless times but it meant something to gold all of your tests.
     
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  16. o000o

    o000o

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    BTW, also should they have unobtainable car as the prize car like in old GT? (it stopped in GT5 and especially GT6 with all cars available) I can never get gold in all licenses esp. higher ones....
     
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  17. Rinsky

    Rinsky Premium

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    Yeah that's exactly what they should do for us in GTS. Since we don't have a structured Career Mode to win those rare cars they should at the very least do this for us on getting all gold on the license test.
     
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  18. o000o

    o000o

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    I also think they should make that the prize cars are only able to be won once in any events. No resetting an event and re-win the prize car like GT4 does. This way I think they should allow us to sell cars.
     
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  19. fikridroid

    fikridroid

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    Random prize car from each category when winning a multitude of 5 races, without duplicates and can be sold
    Example:
    5 to 20 wins: N100
    25 to 45 wins: N200
    50 to 70 wins: N300
    75 to 95 wins: N400
    100 to 120 wins: Gr. 4
    125 to 145 wins: N500
    etc.
     
  20. TonyJZX

    TonyJZX

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    One of the best experiences I've had in GT was the old GT5 B-Spec. You ran a team of 4 people and you grew their careers, like an RPG.

    I would love it if they were able to expand that into A-Spec.

    You also run a 4 man team but you maybe take part in a stint over a 12hr race or some such. Or maybe you can decide to run a two car team and your buddy runs a car and you compete against him too... maybe you can issue team orders and do "Multi 21" and all kinds of nonsense like that.

    Or maybe you run a 12hr Le Mans with 2 other guys and you are forced to do limited stints as per team rules.

    There has to be some better way than the tired ass crap we get from PD and Turn 10.

    I do get why people like the FM4 career but even that is really tiring a whole gen later. to their credit they tried mixing it up with showcases and whatnot in 6 and 7 and the whole coffee cup short races in GT6 but I still kind of roll my eyes up at these mechanics.

    I do quite like some of those canned mission challenges in GT Sport however I'm not sure I want more for some reason.
     
  21. Ddkklop

    Ddkklop

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    After having done more than 1000 online races, racing against AI has became boring for me.

    I would welcome more driving school challenges instead, but this time more difficult ones. Then some special events, missions challenges, like something similar to Ayrton senna from GT6, but this time maybe with Jim Clark, something similar to amg driving academy and grand tour from GT5, similar missions to the ones from GT4, good wood festival and maybe Lewis Hamilton's challenges included as well, but newer ones and with more different Mercedes cars.
     
  22. o000o

    o000o

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    B-Spec has an AI with different characteristic so it's instrumental but for player even with many amount of Driver it will all depend on player's skills, apart from the second fuel for Endurance races. Can you give me the detail about FM4 career? (I never own an XBox).

    But not all people are like you (asking for general players to career, not solely for you) and probably their AI can be fixed like how they pulled Livery Editor quite well.
     
  23. 05XR8

    05XR8

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    Guess I'd start with what the Lewis Hamilton TT DLC will have: Prize Cars.

    In Missions, Circuit Experience and GT School, we get prize cars. Why not in GT League? So that's where I start.

    Next, Manufacturers is the bread and butter for Sport Mode.
    Once you pick your Manufacturer, you decide to enter the Manufacturers Championship in GT League and "Daily Races". Both with comparable Cr. rewards to normal GT League races.

    If players have friends, they too can choose to enter the same GT League Manufacturer races, without opening/joining a Lobby.

    Multi-class would be one of the bigger features. It's in Missions and some GT League races: Super GT&Gr.3, Gr.3&Gr.4.

    Rally from GT6, would be implemented the same. Players line up behind one another, until it's their time to go.
    Trials at Northeen Isles gymkhana courses.

    D1 Drift Trials versus AI, finally! Times and ghosts set by real Drift professionals.
     
  24. Ddkklop

    Ddkklop

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    I know, I know. I didn't say that I don't want them to add traditional campaign mode with racing against AI, but If I had to play something offline, then this would be most welcomed for me and probably others like me as well.

    As for that certain aspect of campaign, I can only think of a better AI, lots of races with different topics, championships, maybe Caffè brakes.
     
  25. sirjim73

    sirjim73

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    I think the key will ultimately be content and variety available at launch (cars and tracks). Cars looks likely to be GTS+ (maybe between 400 and 600) so I think track numbers will be the key component.

    One thing I would do is amalgamate the different types of events into the career mode as a single whole. So, for example, in GTS you have Drift mode, Time trials, GT league races. Have a career mode that includes all of this but where you have a choice of pathways to the next level, so if you dont like drifting for example, you can still progress without getting gold on those drift events. Prize cars given out when you get gold in all events of a type and when you complete the level 100%.

    Add the coffee breaks back in between levels because I think they were quite popular in GT6, but try to think of more things that people will come back to even after they have got Gold. I think the "how far you can get on 1L of fuel" one was a good example as people went back to squeeze that little extra bit of distance out of it, even after completing it. The cones events were pretty dead, once you got 100 cones down that was it.

    Single manufacturer events included within the career mode as well.

    On top of the career mode, keep separate modes for Custom Race, Time Trials, Drift Trials. So the fans of specialisms get to enjoy both the career and their own separate events without it being at the "cost" of other players.

    One thing no one has mentioned yet, how does post launch dlc get included in the career. Although it's very simplistic, the modular setup of GT League has made it very easy to add in new content cars and tracks through new races and events.

    I actually like the idea of an "evolving" career mode as, if it is done well, it can help reduce stale ness from repeated playing. The more complex the career mode the harder it is to augment it though.

    So, the choice would be to either add new DLC as individual "packs" with their own events or integrating it within the original launch career mode.

    The problem is, if you integrate it, you mess up the dynamics of any prize cars etc given in the career. Look how many times we've had to get the Circuit Experience back up to 100% since launch :lol:.

    So I think it has to be done separately, but with a lot more thought and effort than has been applied to GTS in 2019.
     
  26. o000o

    o000o

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    Because GT League is a late addition only to squeeze back old GT fans. How about an actual rally in GT? Point-to-point time trial races, like in GT5's Gran Turismo Rally. But instead of just side events, make those actual main events with more variation on tracks ofc.

    I think personally for car line ups, I want for next GT to remove the fictional race cars (Gr. 3 versions or something) and move them as the car's personal racing modification. I also want the career to have players enjoy almost every kind of cars they included in games, different car levels of a same event (like low/mid/high tier MR car in MR challenge for example - either fully tuned including racing modifications or just plain fast at stock at higher ones of) how about it?

    Most of old GT's event progressions are completing licenses to unlock events (though GT5 has levels instead), not getting gold on events (though GT6 kinda have this with star collecting but that's to unlock licenses to advance). And it's unlikely to have drifting in license (more on coffee breaks, but I think if you use licenses instead as progression like in old games, you won't need to complete all existing events if drifting is included as one of main events).

    Coffee Breaks yeah are needed to have events more than just racing. Though probably more like this of their uniqueness (probably even a dozen of them listed in the event levels just like Driving Schools or Mission Challenge with all crazy ideas can be done within a car).

    Personally because the dealership has brand menus back like in GT2-GT4, I think I want the manufacturer events to be included in the dealership and gives bonus towards that manufacturer upon completion because I don't want the manufacturer events to clog up in the main events.
     
  27. 05XR8

    05XR8

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    That's what did about Rally. Players lined up to wait for their turn to race.

    The question is about Career. Career in Gran turismo, is usually in some type of Arcade Mode. GT League is nearly a Career Mode, as we are able to progress from Beginner to Professional.
     
  28. FUNanywhere

    FUNanywhere

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    Career mode is so hugeeeee part of Previous GT Titles. Cant tell you how many hours i have put there

    But

    Didnt touch in GT Sport coz the Online component is so brilliant. I dont think i can go back to AI Races now.