I feel very guilty about low Sr wins

[TheGeologist]

If you've ever seen my posts on this site, then you may be aware that I look down on drivers who purposely alter their Dr/Sr scores to be able to win races/poles easily. In my mind, it makes the users stats absolutely meaningless and I personally consider it borderline cheating.

That being said, sometimes things are out of your control and accidental Sr drops can also lead to easy wins. Unfortunately, a couple of my sport mode wins have come this way and I always feel incredibly guilty about them.

Today, I won at Nürburging GP in the Bugatti Veyron Gr4. I ran a lap time in the 2:06s which I was pretty happy with as I often struggle with the track. Entering this race, I had a Dr/Sr of 32,743/99. I qualified 5th, but I didn't stay there very long. The race was an absolute wreckfest and I got punted by two drivers simultaneously and fell back to 11th. As I attempted to work my way back up the field, I made a poor decision in an attempt to pass. I tried to pass in an area I shouldn't have tried to and the driver shut the door on me resulting in contact. While the collision did not change their vector much, it caused me to spin and I was awarded a 10 second penalty (As I should have been, it was my fault).

As soon as I was awarded the penalty, I was disappointed. I knew right away that I would more than likely be matched with drivers much slower than me resulting in an easy win if I attempted another race. After that race my Dr/Sr was 32,033/87.

My assumption was correct. Even though my Sr was still S, I was matched to a very different room. With the same lap time as the previous race, I was now on the pole. Qualified in second and third were two D/S drivers who were followed by all B/S drivers behind them, none of which had run a qualifying lap.

I made several mistakes during the race, and still won by several seconds. I couldn't focus because I felt so guilty. Even though I did not purposely lower my Sr, I could not stop feeling like I was somehow cheating.

I'm sure some people will think this is super silly, but I pride myself on my sport mode stats. I keep a list of all my wins and while I did add this win to my win list, I almost felt it should not count. I hate to invalidate my wins, but I feel that if I didn't get into someone in the previous race, then I wouldn't have won this race.

This is why I don't agree with matchmaking based on Sr over Dr. While I would never purposely alter my Dr/Sr to attain wins, this system can be easily manipulated by an unscrupulous driver to rack up a ton of wins which I feel are illegitimate. They're illegitimate because if you're fast and have high Sr, you almost always get put in a room with Turismo-Lester or someone else of equal skill level, and you lose. You lose by a lot... But the second that Sr falls a little bit, you're matched with baby GTS drivers...

This whole Sr first then Dr system bugs me. The matchmaking it does is not always fair.

How do others feel about what I have said? Agree? Disagree? Discuss.

 

[vvise]

It happened to me last month. For me it felt like the game offering a supporting hug like "I'm sorry I took away a huge chunk of DR, I know you're a clean racer but your SR dropped and I have to make an example of you. How about some easy wins to make you feel better?". Lol.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

It already happens when you drop below 90 SR, 88 SR can already give you cheap wins in NA when your pace is DR.A or higher. You can also have cheap wins in the fastest rooms when there is a gap in the alien schedule, race at odd times, or when someone else takes out the alien(s) in T1 or they crash.

Only on Monza have I battled with aliens in training and snatched a few wins that were 'deserved'. I'll never win against a seasoned A+ driver unless they crash, which makes it a cheap win again. So out of my 298 wins, I'm probably at less than a handful 'deserved' wins.

Of course what is you definition of a deserved win. If matchmaking would put me in a room with similar DR I could find out, yet when does that ever happen. Starting on pole and winning by almost a minute, yep feels very cheap. Yet when I start on pole, get punted to last and pull off a clean win in a lower SR room, feels deserved. Hence I enjoy not qualifying since accidental sub 90 SR wins feel much better that way.

 

[Alpha Cipher]

I feel the same as well. Everytime I feel like my SR falls below 90 and has been confirmed, I'll either run Race C to minimize the damage, or stop Sport mode altogether and wait for a decent Race C

 

[Riptide]

Agree 200%. Much more fun and satisfaction working hard for a good qualy and a win than to win with an empty rear mirror. Number of wins in this game says nothing, except for guys that proud themselves to win like TLR and other top racers, not to collect stats. I'm afraid you might get many opposing views though.

 

[Satomiblood]

I only have 7 Sport Mode wins to my credit. I like to think that I actually earned those wins. I've never deliberately tanked my DR/SR for favorable matchups. I've had bad races that dropped me in some lower talent pools, but it's not like I was able to peel off a bunch of victories in those scenarios, either. I remember reading some of the personal justifications people made to tanking a few months back, that they were tired of the matchmaking system sticking them in high talent pools featuring elusive aliens.

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

All of my 1st place wins were because I got trashed down to SR A and had to race against lesser drivers in DR B. I just see it as a silver lining to the situation and it makes earning back to SR S somewhat more enjoyable.

The skill gap between DR B/SR S versus DR B/SR A is surprisingly drastic.

 

[Riptide]

I remember reading some of the personal justifications people made to tanking a few months back, that they were tired of the matchmaking system sticking them in high talent pools featuring elusive aliens.

I am just the opposite. I Would like to race with the aliens to experience proper race craft and strategy and although I would fill the rear end of the grid /track most of the time, one can only learn from that. In the long run my DR / SR can only benefit from that and make me a better player. What my stats say is of much lesser concern.

Perhaps I should add that if the drop is caused by the system, than no sweat. Getting dropped intentionally to gain is where I wont go.

 

[Crazy Taylor]

I feel very guilty about low Sr wins

On a lighter note, its just not cool to cheat wins that way. Being a borderline C/B most of the time, seeing qualy times 3 seconds faster than you on a C race S really annoying.

 

[Veinz]

Agreed. Did a few consecutive race c dailys a little while ago, mostly starting in the mid-field. Got bumped down to SR A after one bad race. At the very next race I started on pole 2 seconds faster than the next guy. It was a long boring race and the win felt pretty hollow.

I get way more satisfaction racing in the midfield with other dr a and above players.

Tanking your ratings for easy poles and wins is cheap af, even if you’re only out to get trophies.

 

[sturk0167]

To keep things in perspective: as of now, Turismo-lester has 1,719 races, 1,524 poles, and 1,397 wins. He's always gonna be matched against lower skill-level people. It's not his fault that his opponents aren't as good. I seriously doubt he feels guilty. As long as you don't drop to lower matches on purpose, your honor should remain intact.

 

[TheGeologist]

I'm glad others share my view. I can really see both sides of the coin. Yes it is a win against lower skilled drivers, but it is still a win at the end of the day. All it takes is one big mistake by me and I could have lost. Does it match up with my other wins? Of course not. But I can hold my head high because I played fairly. I didn't do anything on purpose to be put in that situation, and at the end of the day I'm still a racer. I gotta go for the win.

It already happens when you drop below 90 SR, 88 SR can already give you cheap wins in NA when your pace is DR.A or higher. You can also have cheap wins in the fastest rooms when there is a gap in the alien schedule, race at odd times, or when someone else takes out the alien(s) in T1 or they crash.

Only on Monza have I battled with aliens in training and snatched a few wins that were 'deserved'. I'll never win against a seasoned A+ driver unless they crash, which makes it a cheap win again. So out of my 298 wins, I'm probably at less than a handful 'deserved' wins.

Of course what is you definition of a deserved win. If matchmaking would put me in a room with similar DR I could find out, yet when does that ever happen. Starting on pole and winning by almost a minute, yep feels very cheap. Yet when I start on pole, get punted to last and pull off a clean win in a lower SR room, feels deserved. Hence I enjoy not qualifying since accidental sub 90 SR wins feel much better that way.

If the driver in first wrecks, I still consider that a true win. Racing is only about being fast, it's about being mistake free.

Agree 200%. Much more fun and satisfaction working hard for a good qualy and a win than to win with an empty rear mirror. Number of wins in this game says nothing, except for guys that proud themselves to win like TLR and other top racers, not to collect stats. I'm afraid you might get many opposing views though.

I'm glad others share this view. Was worried I might be laughed off the forum! 👍

The skill gap between DR B/SR S versus DR B/SR A is surprisingly drastic.

It's very drastic. I don't understand it. Is it because less clean drivers are more likely to make constant mistakes?

On a lighter note, its just not cool to cheat wins that way. Being a borderline C/B most of the time, seeing qualy times 3 seconds faster than you on a C race S really annoying.

That why I hate when people do it on purpose. Its stealing wins from those that deserve it and would have earned it had they not purposefully inserted themselves to that situation.

Agreed. Did a few consecutive race c dailys a little while ago, mostly starting in the mid-field. Got bumped down to SR A after one bad race. At the very next race I started on pole 2 seconds faster than the next guy. It was a long boring race and the win felt pretty hollow.

I get way more satisfaction racing in the midfield with other dr a and above players.

Tanking your ratings for easy poles and wins is cheap af, even if you’re only out to get trophies.

Totally agree with everything you've said

To keep things in perspective: as of now, Turismo-lester has 1,719 races, 1,524 poles, and 1,397 wins. He's always gonna be matched against lower skill-level people. It's not his fault that his opponents aren't as good. I seriously doubt he feels guilty. As long as you don't drop to lower matches on purpose, your honor should remain intact.

I don't think that is the same thing. Turismo-Lester is the 1% of the 1%. He cannot help that fact or do anything about it, he is literally one of the best. Of course he isn't going to hang his head low.

 

[The Cake]

I won 4 races in a row on streets of willow 2 with group b, but thats is cause i love the track, 15 wins in total. 300 races. Ranked to a after the 4 wins. Am i guilty as well?

 

[TheGeologist]

I won 4 races in a row on streets of willow 2 with group b, but thats is cause i love the track, 15 wins in total. 300 races. Ranked to a after the 4 wins. Am i guilty as well?

I don't understand how that relates to this situation at all. You haven't mentioned an Sr drop/being ranked with low level drivers.

 

[Alpha Cipher]

I won 4 races in a row on streets of willow 2 with group b, but thats is cause i love the track, 15 wins in total. 300 races. Ranked to a after the 4 wins. Am i guilty as well?

Do you mean SR A?

 

[The Cake]

Dr a.

Guilty of ranking up to dr a cause i played the same track that i know im good at too many times.

So maybe i should be dr b

 

[TheGeologist]

Dr a.

Guilty of ranking up to dr a cause i played the same track that i know im good at too many times.

So maybe i should be dr b

Dr is an averaging statistic to rate skill across all tracks and groups. If you are being matched with similar Dr ranks, but you are simply better at your fellow Dr mates at a track, then it isn't the same thing.

My sport mode wins (35) are on the following tracks...

Autódromo de Interlagos - 22
Blue Moon Bay Speedway - Infield A - 3
Suzuka Circuit - 2
Kyoto Driving Park - Yamagiwa - 2
Nürburging GP - 2
Dragon Trail - Seaside - 2
Blue Moon Bay Speedway II - 2

As you can see, Interlagos is a strong track for me. I am better at that track then my fellow Dr mates. N24 isn't on here because I'm bad at the track. It is one of my weaknesses.

When matched with my Dr mates, it doesn't make me feel guilty to kick butt at Interlagos. I'm better than them there. We still have fairly equal skill because we have similar Dr scores, but Interlagos is simply strong suit for me. On the flip side, if we raced at N24, they might all beat me at N24 because it is one of my weaknesses.

Thats not the same as being matched with drivers ranked far below you simply because (Intentionally or not) your Sr is below 90

 

[Quonceito]

The guilt feeling should only come from "purpose" in my opinion.

If it comes from a wreckfest out of your control or just overall poor result race(s) that is the cause for the drop, then it is what it is on climb back up the ratings. I wouldn't feel guilty about that.

But to drop "on purpose" to pick up easier results/wins, then that is their bag, but kinda cheesey and lame. But hey, to each their own I guess.

I wouldn't feel guilty about a ratings drop win on the climb back up myself.

 

[kilesa4568]

You may find yourself taking one of the rank manipulator's wins off them next time you dip down. Look for D/C players with 3 second quicker qualifying times and give them a nudge forthwith. Cha-Ching!

Winning against genuinely slower players is a good punishment though as hot lapping a race is seriously dull (plus you learn nothing) but I wouldn't think twice about them afterwards. It's in their power to get better and offer more competition.

 

[GOTMAXPOWER]

I don't think you can blame the player for low SR wins, the game puts too much emphasis on SR rather than pace when matchmaking. It would be like accusing the quickest drivers of not deserving their wins because most of their races have slow drivers like me.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Sven Jurgens: ↑
Agree 200%. Much more fun and satisfaction working hard for a good qualy and a win than to win with an empty rear mirror. Number of wins in this game says nothing, except for guys that proud themselves to win like TLR and other top racers, not to collect stats. I'm afraid you might get many opposing views though.

I'm glad others share this view. Was worried I might be laughed off the forum! 👍

Those aren't my words lol! When do I ever work hard on a good qualy, you should know me better by now @FA_Racing said that

However I do sometimes have a good qualy, on Monza and N24 for example. Winning at max SR feels much better indeed. However also those feel kinda cheap nowadays as it only happens when the aliens don't show up for a race. The difference between SR.99 on N24 with an alien up front is me finishing 20 to 30 seconds behind first, or in SR.88 winning with a 20 to 30 second gap. (Not always though, sometimes you actually get a very close race with other DR.A that dropped to sub 90)

When you're not in the top 10, your chance of winning always depends on matchmaking. Play in the middle of the night / early morning and you can get lucky at max SR. Play at prime time and chances are 99% there's someone up front that's at least a second per lap faster. Unless pole gets punted and you get lucky that way. Even cheaper is when you're in second or third and get first at the line because the others had to slow down or finish with a penalty. The way the penalty system works, 80% chance those penalties were undeserved. It's no different from getting unfairly dropped to sub 90 by the penalty system and get a win a race later.

I enjoy crossing the line without a red dot and clean race bonus after a close battle or over taking half the field much more than winning!

I don't think you can blame the player for low SR wins, the game puts too much emphasis on SR rather than pace when matchmaking. It would be like accusing the quickest drivers of not deserving their wins because most of their races have slow drivers like me.

True, when there's only one alien up front that simply runs away and never looks back during the race, isn't that cheap as well? I don't blame them 'farming' wins that way, DR is very hard to raise at the top, plus most likely they're simply hoping someone else at their level will come on to actually have a race. Usually when the same fast driver keeps coming back he starts choosing rarely used cars to handicap himself looking for some actual competition.

 

[TheGeologist]

Those aren't my words lol! When do I ever work hard on a good qualy, you should know me better by now @FA_Racing said that

I believe I have fixed it! I screwed up the multiquote some how! lol

True, when there's only one alien up front that simply runs away and never looks back during the race, isn't that cheap as well? I don't blame them 'farming' wins that way, DR is very hard to raise at the top, plus most likely they're simply hoping someone else at their level will come on to actually have a race. Usually when the same fast driver keeps coming back he starts choosing rarely used cars to handicap himself looking for some actual competition.

The top players aren't doing anything wrong. They aren't dropping Sr/Dr to win, they are simply being matched with drivers that are slower than them. Since they are the fastest, there is no other option for them but to race slower drivers. I don't fault them at all, they shouldn't be expected to quit because they are the 1% of the 1%.

Now if they artificially lowered their Dr to race even slower drivers, then that is a different story...

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Btw just see lower SR wins as compensation for the wins the penalty system or a dirty punter screwed you out of!

I would like to see DR split per track and GR. I'm close to A+ on Monza and N24, yet just a middling B on Interlagos and Magiorre. It doesn't matter much for any matches above 26K DR as you'll find the same people anway at SR.99. Yet at Interlagos and Magiorre I'm fighting for 15th place in GR.4, while at Monza and N24 I'm very often on the podium, qualifying or not.

As a statistic it would be nice to see what my DR is per track. On KP my DR looks like the Himalayas as a good track + car combo easily nets me 6K DR in a full night, while a bad track + car combo can cost me that in a night.

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

It's very drastic. I don't understand it. Is it because less clean drivers are more likely to make constant mistakes?

I'm sure that's a component. When I did run lower SR races from the back of the pack, I just saw a lot of unnecessary aggressive driving. Excessively defensive lines and desperate dive bombs, all of which were easy to counter to drive them into an error. Basically, they would prioritize defending their position over running an optimum racing line. I'd imagine from their perspective they're racing clean but without a clear understanding of shared cornering rights, I can't see them moving out of SR A.

 

[TheGeologist]

I would like to see DR split per track and GR. I'm close to A+ on Monza and N24, yet just a middling B on Interlagos and Magiorre. It doesn't matter much for any matches above 26K DR as you'll find the same people anway at SR.99. Yet at Interlagos and Magiorre I'm fighting for 15th place in GR.4, while at Monza and N24 I'm very often on the podium, qualifying or not.

As a statistic it would be nice to see what my DR is per track. On KP my DR looks like the Himalayas as a good track + car combo easily nets me 6K DR in a full night, while a bad track + car combo can cost me that in a night.

I would LOVE Dr/Sr by track! Unrelated, but another stat I want to see on KP is related to my wins. I've kept a win list, but I've never thought to write down whether my wins were in daily race A, B or C. I'd be curious to see that split.

I'm sure that's a component. When I did run lower SR races from the back of the pack, I just saw a lot of unnecessary aggressive driving. Excessively defensive lines and desperate dive bombs, all of which were easy to counter to drive them into an error. Basically, they would prioritize defending their position over running an optimum racing line. I'd imagine from their perspective they're racing clean but without a clear understanding of shared cornering rights, I can't see them moving out of SR A.

Totally agree.

 

[Lord of Tranz]

Just another flaw really. Too many know to do this because too many 'aliens' ruin things and make it less about competition and all about those trophies, lol. (By then, they just can't stop, lol).

How many lazy gamers here are proud to leave their PlayStation on overnight grinding walls like Tony Hawk, lol. So many are just not into fair sport, and polyphony seem to think they can control players, but they can't do anything but worsen things with ultra troll friendly penalty systems.

(They really messed that up again. This July update is their last chance. I don't need to win, but I must not be hampered by the game anymore - Selling it if still broken then. Hell, for how cheap it is right now, might go to the park and play frisbee).

Worst GT ever. Shocking really considering just how good it was.

 

[Macboyilija]

I agree with you totally. Still it can be a good mental boost knowing that you are not slow. There are a lot of players slower than you. Sometimes you forget this because you are pretty high ranked. So it can be eyes opening to sometimes drop and get poles and wins again.

 

[TheGeologist]

How many lazy gamers here are proud to leave their PlayStation on overnight grinding walls like Tony Hawk, lol. So many are just not into fair sport.

I've never done that, but I don't see how thats cheating or how that relates to the discussion at hand.

(They really messed that up again. This July update is their last chance. I don't need to win, but I must not be hampered by the game anymore - Selling it if still broken then. Hell, for how cheap it is right now, might go to the park and play frisbee).

Worst GT ever. Shocking really considering just how good it was.

I'm sorry you feel that way. I totally disagree. GT6 was trash. I want to race people, not against crap AI. And I'm not here to collect cars. But that's a discussion for another thread.

I agree with you totally. Still it can be a good mental boost knowing that you are not slow. There are a lot of players slower than you. Sometimes you forget this because you are pretty high ranked. So it can be eyes opening to sometimes drop and get poles and wins again.

Never thought of it like that, thanks! 👍

 

[Alpha Cipher]

I agree with you totally. Still it can be a good mental boost knowing that you are not slow. There are a lot of players slower than you. Sometimes you forget this because you are pretty high ranked. So it can be eyes opening to sometimes drop and get poles and wins again.

This is the greatest pep talk I've seen in a while

 

[Lord of Tranz]

@TheGeologist..

It relates because there's a trophy to obtain for rank 50. As I said about the trophies earlier, some take things too far.

Players dropping rank on purpose for a cheap win are no different. Weak and impatient without a care for the game.

Aside that, obviously racing players is more engaging, lol. Daft statement, but we're often not racing others with just how bad the penalty system is and has been since launch. But I agree, my rant on other topics is out of place here.

Must add though, you shouldn't feel bad for winning against the field presented. We can't choose it, and if you're dropping points accidentally or because of the flawed system. There's nothing to feel guilty for, IMO.