I found a bug with the Chaparral 2x. PP goes up.

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When I try to use the power limiter there is a point at around 89% to 94% more or less where the Performance Points start to go up rather than down. I know that in GT5 at some point there was an update where it broke the PP of some cars and this same thing started happening.

I don't know if this car has had this issue for a while or if its happening since this update. I doubt I'm the first one to find this but I think we should make a list so maybe PD can fix it for the next update.
 
...:irked:

Please provide more info. Were you decreasing the power? Increasing the weight? Shifting the ballast? What were you doing, where were you doing, etc, etc.

Those might be helpful, y'know what I mean?
 
...:irked:

Please provide more info. Were you decreasing the power? Increasing the weight? Shifting the ballast? What were you doing, where were you doing, etc, etc.

Those might be helpful, y'know what I mean?

Well, I did say in the first sentence of my post that I was using the power limiter and there was a point at around 89% to 94% (so that means I'm decreasing the power) where the PP went up by like 4 or 5 points. Nothing else is broken just that. I tried the ballast too and it didn't seem to give any issues.


A video would be great.

I'll get right on that then.


EDIT: I gotta go for a while but by tonight I'll try to have that video on here.
 
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It's not a bug with the 2X, this happens with a lot of cars. It's a feature of the PP system, that after a certain point (probably related to weight and/or downforce) more power leads to a decrease in PP.
 
Engine run in, it happened in GT5 aswell. The more you drive a car from new you get a slight increase in power & PP before it all comes crashing down again below what it started with & you have to perform an oil change.
 
Well, I did say in the first sentence of my post that I was using the power limiter and there was a point at around 89% to 94% (so that means I'm decreasing the power) where the PP went up by like 4 or 5 points. Nothing else is broken just that. I tried the ballast too and it didn't seem to give any issues.




I'll get right on that then.


EDIT: I gotta go for a while but by tonight I'll try to have that video on here.

...Ohh oops. My bad. :O
 
It's not a bug with the 2X, this happens with a lot of cars. It's a feature of the PP system, that after a certain point (probably related to weight and/or downforce) more power leads to a decrease in PP.
If this is true, why would less power increase PP? PP goes higher the better the stats of a car are. It just doesn't make sense.

Engine run in, it happened in GT5 aswell. The more you drive a car from new you get a slight increase in power & PP before it all comes crashing down again below what it started with & you have to perform an oil change.
It can't be this because I've never used this car before doing this. Now it has a few miles but still.
Yeah, the PP goes up by a few points when you lower the power.

It's true.
Now we gotta find what other cars do this.

Stealth nerf to prevent people from dropping the power all the way down to use it in seasonals?
But this car doesn't have any TC so it can't enter seasonals anyway. :boggled: So even if it is a stealth nerf, it would be a bit of a pointless one. Not even because of seasonals, but mostly because the Vision GT cars have virtually no usage for in game races.

...Ohh oops. My bad. :O
It's ok. :)
 
But this car doesn't have any TC so it can't enter seasonals anyway. :boggled: So even if it is a stealth nerf, it would be a bit of a pointless one. Not even because of seasonals, but mostly because the Vision GT cars have virtually no usage for in game races.



Oh, haha, for some reason i didnt pay attention and read that as 2J. DOH!
 
If this is true, why would less power increase PP? PP goes higher the better the stats of a car are. It just doesn't make sense.

Because if an increase in power gives lower PP, then a decrease in power gives higher PP. It follows the same logic. You'll also find that there are some cars where you get higher PP by adding weight.

As for the reason? Well, hard to tell since no one knows exactly how the PP system works. It could be an intended feature of the PP system, because having more power doesn't necessarily make the car better, you also need to get it down to the road. A light car with little downforce and lots of power will have more trouble getting the power down to the road than a heavier car.
 
Because if an increase in power gives lower PP, then a decrease in power gives higher PP. It follows the same logic. You'll also find that there are some cars where you get higher PP by adding weight.

As for the reason? Well, hard to tell since no one knows exactly how the PP system works. It could be an intended feature of the PP system, because having more power doesn't necessarily make the car better, you also need to get it down to the road. A light car with little downforce and lots of power will have more trouble getting the power down to the road than a heavier car.

It's easier to drive.

It makes sense in theory, but the thing is that PD has patched these kinds of things in the past before. So I in a way doubt that its that. And if it was I'm also sure PD would explain that if a car benefits of lower HP or higher weight it would get more PP. Plus tinkering with the suspension, LSD etc would increase the PP as well.

However, lets assume that what you two say is true well I would still not be too sure about that because hacked cars would see a heavy decrease in PP after hitting ridiculous amounts of HP. For what I've read the PP doesn't go down for those machines. They can have a million in HP and the HP would still go up.
 
...Hmm. I remember this PP quirk also occuring in GT5. I think it was Gillet racecar. Drop its horsepower, then by some miracle, its PP would rise. Last time I checked, same thing happens in GT6 too, so a "easier to drive" theory seems to stick.
 
...Hmm. I remember this PP quirk also occuring in GT5. I think it was Gillet racecar. Drop its horsepower, then by some miracle, its PP would rise. Last time I checked, same thing happens in GT6 too, so a "easier to drive" theory seems to stick.
I got as a gift once a hacked fiat 500 with god knows how much horsepower (over 10,000 afaik) and the pp was through the roof even though you couldn't drive the thing, not even a cpu could in b spec.
 
Like others have said, it happens on a few cars. Sometimes less horsepower means more drive-ability, while I'm also sure there's an explanation to the PP formula in the depths of the forums someplace, where someone showed/explained why the PP starts to drop above a certain point. It's how hacked cars were able to have negative PP values, or you could add just the right amount of power so that you had a really fast car with a moderate PP level.

Took a look at some of these modded "500"PP monsters I made for some fun in Seasonal Events, they have around double the power these vehicles would normally be when tuned to 500PP.

IMAG0316_zps99b61b30.jpg

IMAG0314_zps1f155e51.jpg

IMAG0315_zps7a34dc01.jpg
 
Yea I've witnessed this happening too. Not sure if it is a bug or if it is intended.
 
Like others have said, it happens on a few cars. Sometimes less horsepower means more drive-ability, while I'm also sure there's an explanation to the PP formula in the depths of the forums someplace, where someone showed/explained why the PP starts to drop above a certain point. It's how hacked cars were able to have negative PP values, or you could add just the right amount of power so that you had a really fast car with a moderate PP level.

Took a look at some of these modded "500"PP monsters I made for some fun in Seasonal Events, they have around double the power these vehicles would normally be when tuned to 500PP.

I'm so confused. In a way, the drive-ability seems a good theory. But if it's true why did the GT5 car I had, had the PP through the roof instead of going down? We do know the PP from GT5 and GT6 is the same system and hasn't received any changes overall except that now downforce doesn't affect PP. Which again, if it was drive-ability it wouldn't make sense. If I took the downforce on the Red Bull 2014x to the lowest that thing will prove undrivable because of how unstable it would be. Maybe in GT5 that theory would be more sound but even then, a car is much more than just HP and weight. How it's tuned it is what really determines well it drives and how good that car will be, obviously in conjunction with power and weight, not exclusively.

This is why a Red Bull Junior (728pp) will never beat a Audi R10 TDI with a Stage 3 turbo (725pp) and the Audi will easily outclass the Red Bull. I want to make clear though that I'm not dismissing your point. I'm just trying to see if we can make sense of this by taking everything into account.
:sly:
 
It makes sense in theory, but the thing is that PD has patched these kinds of things in the past before. So I in a way doubt that its that. And if it was I'm also sure PD would explain that if a car benefits of lower HP or higher weight it would get more PP. Plus tinkering with the suspension, LSD etc would increase the PP as well.

However, lets assume that what you two say is true well I would still not be too sure about that because hacked cars would see a heavy decrease in PP after hitting ridiculous amounts of HP. For what I've read the PP doesn't go down for those machines. They can have a million in HP and the HP would still go up.

The suspension and LSD settings aren't part of the PP calculation, so you can do whatever you want with those. Power and weight are part of the calculation. That is why you see this when you tinker with weight and power, but not when you tinker with suspension and LSD.

A lot of hacked cars are using the grip multiplyer as well, which boosts the PP. But cars like the 100 k BHP Red Bull X cars in GT5 had a negative PP rating.
 
The Gillet Vertigo is one of those cars. At least, it was in GT5. When you bought it and made an oil change, PP's would actually go down. Haven't bought the car in GT6 though to try that out again.

I think it's got to do with the power-to-weight ratio. The Gillet had more power than weight, so increasing power beyond a certain point would probably do nothing to make it perform any better. (just add wheelspin)
 
Toyota 7 also had this issue I think.

I'm guessing it's got to do with drivability and the shape of the torque curve. For very light or bad handling cars adding more power will not help it go around a track faster (hence the drivability factor). And using the power limiter creates a flatter torque curve, which is better in some cases than a peaky curve, even if the amount of maximum torque is a bit lower.
 
The PP system tends to like vehicles that naturally understeer to some degree (stability) and adding ludicrous horsepower tends to make a car very unstable. This was the case with the Minolta Group C in GT5, and it was a large PP swing in that case
 
Like others have said, it happens on a few cars. Sometimes less horsepower means more drive-ability, while I'm also sure there's an explanation to the PP formula in the depths of the forums someplace, where someone showed/explained why the PP starts to drop above a certain point. It's how hacked cars were able to have negative PP values, or you could add just the right amount of power so that you had a really fast car with a moderate PP level.

Took a look at some of these modded "500"PP monsters I made for some fun in Seasonal Events, they have around double the power these vehicles would normally be when tuned to 500PP.

IMAG0316_zps99b61b30.jpg

IMAG0314_zps1f155e51.jpg

IMAG0315_zps7a34dc01.jpg
How those are made? Legal tuning or hacked save or under cfw modded?
 
The suspension and LSD settings aren't part of the PP calculation, so you can do whatever you want with those. Power and weight are part of the calculation. That is why you see this when you tinker with weight and power, but not when you tinker with suspension and LSD.

A lot of hacked cars are using the grip multiplyer as well, which boosts the PP. But cars like the 100 k BHP Red Bull X cars in GT5 had a negative PP rating.
Oh I know that. But that's why it's so odd for me. If it really was just drive-ability, that would be much better factors to determine PP.

The Gillet Vertigo is one of those cars. At least, it was in GT5. When you bought it and made an oil change, PP's would actually go down. Haven't bought the car in GT6 though to try that out again.

I think it's got to do with the power-to-weight ratio. The Gillet had more power than weight, so increasing power beyond a certain point would probably do nothing to make it perform any better. (just add wheelspin)
Yes but other cars with the same stats have a different PP number. So it can't be just power and weight.

Toyota 7 also had this issue I think.

I'm guessing it's got to do with drivability and the shape of the torque curve. For very light or bad handling cars adding more power will not help it go around a track faster (hence the drivability factor). And using the power limiter creates a flatter torque curve, which is better in some cases than a peaky curve, even if the amount of maximum torque is a bit lower.
This is the theory that makes the most sense to me. In this case a car would preform a lot better.

The PP system tends to like vehicles that naturally understeer to some degree (stability) and adding ludicrous horsepower tends to make a car very unstable. This was the case with the Minolta Group C in GT5, and it was a large PP swing in that case
Was this in GT5 or GT6?

How those are made? Legal tuning or hacked save or under cfw modded?
Usually hacked saves for GT5. But so far in GT6 afaik it's only possible under cfw.

Hacked cars are stupid though.
 
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Oh I know that. But that's why it's so odd for me. If it really was just drive-ability, that would be much better factors to determine PP.

Suspension has a big impact on the handling of the car, but it's impossible to make a PP rating based on it because it depends so much on driver preferences and individual characteristics of the cars.

Power and weight are much easier to work with, because the connection to performance is more obvious and universal.

Toyota 7 also had this issue I think.

I'm guessing it's got to do with drivability and the shape of the torque curve. For very light or bad handling cars adding more power will not help it go around a track faster (hence the drivability factor). And using the power limiter creates a flatter torque curve, which is better in some cases than a peaky curve, even if the amount of maximum torque is a bit lower.

The power limiter creates a flatter power curve, the torque curve actually becomes more peaky (although it will then level out along an exponential curve). A flatter power curve means that you can have a bigger gap between the gears without getting worse acceleration.
 
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I don't have any hacked Red Bulls (don't have GT5) but I do think that it might have to do with drivability. For example I have a 1,000hp VW bug on FH2 (without hacks, you can do that on FH2) and also a 950hp Veneno. The Veneno has a rating of 998 while the VW has a rating of 950, even though the bug is more powerful and 200kg lighter.
 
Yes but other cars with the same stats have a different PP number. So it can't be just power and weight.

I did not say that power-to-weight ratio was the only factor in the calculation of the PP figure. Power & torque curves, weight and weight distribution as well as some general factor referring to aerodynamics are known to be part of the equation, but the behaviour of decreasing PP's when increasing power only seems to happen with very powerful cars that have a high power-to-weight ratio. That leads me to believe that apart from the influence power and weight usually have, there is some additional influence of the ratio of these two parameters.
 
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