I have a problem driving in traffic

[Picc84]

If im on the track alone, I'm fine. Even when drifting with one or two other guys, I may be able to tandem once or twice without hessisatation. But when it comes to grip racing, with 4+ other racers in a pack with all different accel rates, top speeds, etc running nose to nose, I can't do it. I don't even know WHAT to do at that point. Sometimes my car is abit faster then the car infront and i hit them by accident (no punt, just a tap) Or i have to break furiously to not nail them and i end up losing preciouse time in the race.
I just need some help with driving in traffic, Idk if I just need to race more, or you guys could tip me abit?

 

[Watevaman]

I'm kind of the same way. If I'm neck in neck with a person on a straight approaching a corner, for example, I usually try to push my car into the turn, but end up flying off the track in order to avoid a collision. I find backing off a better tactic than pushing on if you're in doubt, because at least then you'll have the opportunity to adjust your tactics.

 

[SteveO1965]

Bring back your braking points a bit? say two car lenghts and that may help on the twisties?

 

[HaylRayzor]

Try not to focus on the other cars. Brake a bit earlier and stay to the inside of the corners. Never try to pass on the outside. Even if the other guy is a clean driver he may not be able to hold his car down and he may push you off be accident. If he's not a clean driver you're toast.

 

[RussRobit]

Here's how I look at it. When racing in a pack and you are a little slower, either stay on your line and the faster guy's will find their way around you, or, make a deliberate move off line and slow a bit to allow a clean pass. If you are faster, you can apply pressure by being all over the guy, without touching him, until you get close to a corner. Brake a little earlier than normal and watch the guy in front. If he brakes late and goes wide, take him on the inside, but leave room for him on the outside on exit, he may still be somewhat beside you, you don't want to knock him off the track. The other passing method would be to draft him on the straight and pass him before the next corner. If you can't get fully beside him before the braking zone, back down and wait for your next chance.
You can try these posts also.
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=111542
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=110889
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=112007
I hope you find some answers and good luck racing!

 

[nasanu]

Racing in GTP is a lot harder than in real life in some regards. In real racing the performance of the cars does not differ much from team to team, some are a little faster than others but the differences are not great. However in GTP the grids are made up of vastly differing cars with huge gaps in performance.

Myself I like to use the 111R, I love the way it drives. This car goes very, very deep under brakes and many corners where others brake I dont lift at all. It means that there are times when a 30m gap between cars can close in a second it can be very easy to punt someone if you dont know the performance of their car. Sometimes in a pack I start braking about 50m before I usually would because I know the cars in front are slow. Its annoying but its what you have to do.

There are some times where I back off down a straight to get a gap between me and the guy in front so I can get a good run through a corner and try to pass on the exit.

As for guys behind, dont even think about them. Its their job to cleanly pass you, and your job to stick to your own racing line, or defend it if you wish.


I dont know about this "If he brakes late and goes wide, take him on the inside, but leave room for him on the outside on exit". You dont have to leave room. If you are on the inside (and at least as far as the front wheel) then its your turn. If you can leave room then always do, but never at the expense of your exit speed. There are many drivers who take advantage of kindness. They will stay on the outside when you pass them because they know you will leave room and thus be slow out of the corner. They will then take advantage of that and pass you back right away. It simply means that you can only pass on the straight, and thats not what racing is about at all.

It also causes problems when a driver tries to leave room. Degner curve at suzuka is a good example. Last night I was racing a guy who was in my slip coming out of dunlop. He went on the inside approaching degner and I knowing you can not go two wide through there backed off to let him pass. The problem was that he backed off also. So we both had to turn in at the same time, which does not work, there was contact and we both went off the road. If he had just dived in and taken the place like he was meant to then we both would have went on racing without incident. He was trying to be too nice and spoilt everything.

 

[jakkim]

when in a pack remember you have close to 0 downforce, which increase your breaking length and grip by a huge amount..

 

[supersonic-88]

I think just continually practicing driving in packs will help you greatly. Its easy enough to drive alone but it takes a little learning to be able to do it well with others around. I agree with what others have said so far:

- Defiantly brake earlier than you normally would when driving alone. By how much really depends on the person in front but you can generally work it out by following them for a few corners.
- Remember you are racing lots of different cars with different performances. Some may be able to brake deeper, others may be able to carry a lot more speed through the corners, others better acceleration & so on. Keep this in mind and try to form strategies to overcome other cars advantages.
- Always always always, use the mirrors and left & right side look buttons to see where others are. If you dont do this you'll be heading straight for a collision.
- If you're going into a corner, another person is in the process of passing you & you've lost sight of them (ie blindspot) don't turn in and take your normal line, as most likely you'll hit them. Instead, run wide through the corner. They'll either make the pass or back off, which then you would move back onto your usual line.
- If you've mucked up your braking point and know you arent going to make the corner, drive off the circuit, instead of flying into the corner and punting someone. Basically sacrifice yourself.
- If you've run wide into a corner with someone behind and they're now making a move on you, dont cut back across on them to try & keep the position.
- Don't excessively block.
- Learn other drivers weaknesses & try to exploit them.
- Dont try late braking moves/dive bombs.
- Always look ahead of the car in front of you.
- Remember when racing in a pack you'll most likely be going at about 85-90% of your normal pace, so again brake a bit earlier in corners, be patient behind others, take it easier through some corners & don't overdrive as you could easily punt someone off.

That's a few things i hope might help. But yes practice & experience is the best way to become comfortable & skilled in racing in packs.

 

[Paulie]

Reel yourself back a bit, drive a little slower in battles if you need to, at least until you can build skill and confidence enough to put on more pressure.

 

[TiZzla]

Its actually not possible to race as fast as you can nose to tail with 2 different cars.

Thats why touring cars are always the same weight and power.

because thats the ONLY way you can have 2 cars with the same breaking points and lines.

for example, i can race on no mercy suzuka with GTRs nose to tail going absolutely flat out and never hit them.

but if some idiot is in a audi r8 and comes flying up behind me, he has a later braking limit than me, so if he brakes as late as he can he will punt me off.

so the only thing you can do is brake earlier and try to pass them under brakes or down a straight

 

[DTM]

I don’t have much to add and agree with what most of them are saying.

But:

I’ve got a few marks on what people sad here:

Focus on the car in front:

Not for 100%. Off course you’ve got to keep an eye on it, but try to look through thecar like it’s invincible. That way you can focus more on your turning point. If you don’t you might follow the line of the car in front. If he steer in too late, you will automatically as well and visa versa. Overtaking opportunity gone. And if your come real close to the car in front by approaching a corner back of the throttle a bit. And adjust the amount of braking.


Overtaking on the outside:

It is possible to overtake on the outside. You’ve got to be very sure of your case when doing that. And it depends on the skills of the driver you want to overtake. Still a very dangerous situation. But possible. And not for all tracks. It’s much easier on a track like High Speed Ring then Suzuka.

Something that nobody said anything about. Drive another line, good for overtaking.

Not possible in any situation, like overtaking on the outside.

A good example is the 100R on Fuji. That corner you can take 2 lines. There is the original line that everybody uses and there is a line with a later apex. That’s the line that will profits a set up for out braking your opponent for the next corner, the hairpin (turn6).sometimes it’s not even necessary to out brake him because your already in front of him before the hairpin. With the alternative line you will have a faster exit of the corner.
By my own experience:
Last night I was racing on Fuji the Ferrari event in the California. (with a whole bunch of GTP-ers, btw. Was an awesome event). I used both lines, most of the times the original one and that gave me an exit speed of approximately 165 KMH. with the alternative line I had an exit speed very close to 180KMH. But be careful, you will cross the back of the car in front. Because of your later apex.

 

[Ardius]

If im on the track alone, I'm fine. Even when drifting with one or two other guys, I may be able to tandem once or twice without hessisatation. But when it comes to grip racing, with 4+ other racers in a pack with all different accel rates, top speeds, etc running nose to nose, I can't do it. I don't even know WHAT to do at that point. Sometimes my car is abit faster then the car infront and i hit them by accident (no punt, just a tap) Or i have to break furiously to not nail them and i end up losing preciouse time in the race.
I just need some help with driving in traffic, Idk if I just need to race more, or you guys could tip me abit?

Everything said so far is good advice, I'd just like to add that:
When a driver is driving hot laps for time trials, he should be driving on the edge, 100%.
When a driver is racing in a pack of cars, he should be driving just below the edge, at about 90-95%.

All this means is you should be taking corners slightly slower and allowing for earlier braking points and different lines, like people have been saying.

Really though, the best advice is practice, practice, practice. Try practicing with the AI, I know they are a bit blind and stupid at times, but I think you could probably practice braking and cornering techniques a bit with them and also the most important thing - adjusting your braking points for slipstream.
It might also be a good idea to try and drive a race without overtaking as much, try and just keep along side or follow more often, rather than trying to attack and keep up their rear - I don't suggest this as what you should do in race situations, just as a way of practicing such situations.

Racing in GTP is a lot harder than in real life in some regards. In real racing the performance of the cars does not differ much from team to team, some are a little faster than others but the differences are not great. However in GTP the grids are made up of vastly differing cars with huge gaps in performance.

I disagree with this, it depends on the race series. If its touring cars or formula 3000 or something, then yes, the performance is much closer. But with F1, Le Mans, etc there can be fields with some performance differences.
I wouldn't say there are "huge gaps in performance" in GT5P grids, I think thats more down to the the skills of the drivers, which are certainly big gaps.

 

[BobElHat]

My top tip is when you're close to another car approaching a braking zone, pull out so you aren't directly behind, even if you don't think you can make a pass. That way if they brake earlier than expected you have more chance of avoiding a collision.

If there's a bunch of cars behind you, going into turn 1 for example, don't just slam the brakes on. Apply the brakes more gently to give those behind a chance to react. If you're one on one this doesn't really apply unless you're unsure about the other driver's ability or know they have very different braking performance - you'll just end up giving your place away. In a pack though, their attention may be elsewhere and giving them a chance to react may save you a trip over the grass.

Most of all though, just be conservative and patient. Losing one place by being too conservative is better than losing five by being gung-ho and spinning off. Spinning off the track might cost you ten seconds, in a five lap race that's the equivalent of going two seconds a lap faster for the whole race.

I wouldn't say there are "huge gaps in performance" in GT5P grids, I think thats more down to the the skills of the drivers, which are certainly big gaps.

The spread of driver ability is a factor, but the performance differences between a GT-R and an Elise are far greater than I've seen in any real-world event (ignoring things like GT racing, where there are multiple classes on track together).

 

[Paulie]

I just want to post this video to all those saying that in real racing all the cars are generally similar. Different cars can have wildly different strengths and weaknesses on the track and you must know your car and that of your opponent. If you're in an Elise and the guy in front a big sedan of course he will need to brake much earlier and you must account for that.

 

[Vaxen]

Driving in traffic is a skill, and it takes practice. The most important thing is to be aware of drivers in front and behind, so you can choose lines and braking points that are less likely to get you in trouble. When following more than one car, make sure to look further ahead than just the car in front, as that will give you more time to react to trouble.

One thing that I haven't seen mentioned here, is that even in a two car battle, if you are following nose to tail, even if you are following a car that is identically prepared, you can't drive with identical lines/accel/braking. There are two reasons for this:
1) the draft will cause you to go faster in the straight
2) field compression under braking means that the following car will need to brake earlier that the leading car, unless there is enough space.

To illustrate point #2, if you both in the same car, lets say it's 14 feet long, and you are following 3 feet behind. When you are going 120 mph down the straight, you will be 17 feet and 0.1 seconds behind.

However, when you enter a 40 mph corner, in order to maintain that same 0.1 second gap, you would need to be about 6 feet behind, or your nose would need to be equal with the leading driver's door!

To maintain the same 3 foot gap between yourself and the leading car, you'd need to fall to about 0.25 seconds behind. This means that you'll need to brake earlier or you'll run into the back of the leading car. This is why fields of cars in road races seem to get strung out over the course of a couple laps, even though their qualifying times would seem to indicate that they could run much closer to each other.

When running in a pack of cars, this gets magnified by each car running nose to tail. If you are 3rd in a line of cars like the above, the 2nd car brakes earlier and falls to 0.25 sec behind. The third car will have to brake even earlier and fall to 0.5 sec behind the leading driver (from 0.2 sec on the straight).

Hugo Boss gave some good advice on this in the 2nd thread that RussRobit linked:

When you have cars right in front of you going into the first corner, you need to brake earlier than them to avoid a collision. That is already common knowledge for most people. However, using your maximum stopping power is NOT the proper thing to do at that moment. Brake gently first and increase the input from there on.

 

[BobElHat]

I just want to post this video to all those saying that in real racing all the cars are generally similar. Different cars can have wildly different strengths and weaknesses on the track and you must know your car and that of your opponent. If you're in an Elise and the guy in front a big sedan of course he will need to brake much earlier and you must account for that.

I stand corrected, I thought you only got races like that in GT What series is that?

 

[superwally]

I suspect that when driving alone, you focus on the braking point and corner apexes, looking ahead at all times down the road to the place you want the car to be. When in a pack you may be focused too much on the car in front or behind, and are judging your corner entries and apexes by your relative position to that car, and not by your position on the track.

Focus on the same points on the track you would if driving alone, and use your peripheral vision to adjust to the cars around you. It takes practice-I have problems passing for similar reasons, I just get too fixated on what the car in front is doing instead of just driving my line and anticipating the right time to pass. It's frustrating!

 

[Hyper-Dan]

I suspect that when driving alone, you focus on the braking point and corner apexes, looking ahead at all times down the road to the place you want the car to be. When in a pack you may be focused too much on the car in front or behind, and are judging your corner entries and apexes by your relative position to that car, and not by your position on the track.

Focus on the same points on the track you would if driving alone, and use your peripheral vision to adjust to the cars around you. It takes practice-I have problems passing for similar reasons, I just get too fixated on what the car in front is doing instead of just driving my line and anticipating the right time to pass. It's frustrating!

Good advice, I sometimes get sucked in looking at the car infront, instead of the apex or braking point. Normally after a few beers. I find its easy to race in traffic if you know your fellow racers and their driving style. For example, myself and Mr_Volcano have some seriously epic battles in the No Mercy 600pp RWD only event, So many overtakes and running 2 wide around turn 1/2, Dunlop, Degner, Spoon. Getting to know your racers is key. 👍

 

[nasanu]

I stand corrected, I thought you only got races like that in GT What series is that?

It looks like GTP.

Even in that series for production cars they are still tampered with to close gaps in performance. But you could see the driver having to go easy across the mountain because of the holden in front. If the elise driver had access to GT like slipstreaming and was close at the end of the straight he would have had to really stop much earlier than normal. Its worse in GT where you can chose power or weight up to a PP limit. When someone goes for all cornering in an elise and another goes for all power in a GTLM the difference in braking ability is vast and like nothing seen in most real world racing.

 

[Paulie]

It looks like GTP.

Even in that series for production cars they are still tampered with to close gaps in performance. But you could see the driver having to go easy across the mountain because of the holden in front. If the elise driver had access to GT like slipstreaming and was close at the end of the straight he would have had to really stop much earlier than normal. Its worse in GT where you can chose power or weight up to a PP limit. When someone goes for all cornering in an elise and another goes for all power in a GTLM the difference in braking ability is vast and like nothing seen in most real world racing.

Those cars aren't tampered with are they? You are right on GT though, it can be vastly more different than even real life, even in that race between the HSV and Elise.